What's the most you've spent on one piece of art (cash!)?

[heartened]

This brings up another angle which is that in my experience I have found that in buying/selling that it is feast or famine. Either I buy or sell for top dollar or I can't give away what I'm trying to sell unless I am practically giving it away. Selling OA is not for the meek -- that is for sure! And luckily there have been a few buy/sell deals that have been in between feast/famine -- though it certainly feels like that scenario is more the exception than the norm.

 

, another elephant-- "collectors" who believe they MUST profit on every piece they decide to sell. For me, profit is great, but mostly, it's enough to just get out what I have into a piece. I'll take a loss if I have to. Not ideal...but this is a hobby. I can tell right away the collectors who view OA as a hobby from those who view it as a money-making enterprise.

 

But why can't a person be both? Why does it have to be such a black or white issue? You and I both have bought and sold a ton of art but we are also collectors who truly enjoy the hobby. Sure there are extremes -- people who are only in it for the money or only in it for the hobby -- but most every collector I know (99.9% of them and I know many) has bought, sold, and traded for profit on at least one occasion. There's a ton of grey area and there's no way those terms are mutually exclusive.

 

You and I have talked about this privately at length, but it's been a while and you may have forgotten...

 

No doubt, everyone is here because they love the art form of comics and comic art. And, yes, we've all sold art to varying degrees (although how we go about it is another issue entirely). And, no, I have no problem with profit when it happens organically (without any assistance from undue hype and/or shenanigans which just needlessly raises the market for everyone).

 

However...

 

I cannot be friends with "collectors" in the hobby whose primary motivation is profit. You may consider this a "grey area", but it is very obvious to me. It's a matter of trust. I can't trust those who have an agenda. I can't trust those who will use information I give them to potentially profit off me or others.

 

I'll give an example.

 

Collector A and Collector B are friends. Collector A knows Collector B likes Miller DD. Collector A then finds a prime example in a buried collection. He shows a scan to Collector B. Collector B wants it. Collector B will pay $10K for it.

 

Now...if Collector A was a real friend, wouldn't he just introduce Collector B to the seller?

 

Instead, Collector A inserts himself as a middleman. He tries to negotiate the best price possible with the seller by saying the piece is a "grail" for his "collection" and that he'll "love it forever". He ends up getting it for $8K.

 

He then sells it to Collector B for $10K.

 

Hardly the most egregious example of greed in this hobby. But I could not be friends with someone like Collector A.

Hi Felix,

 

This is a very interesting post. I guess it's how you look at it. I have several friends, including dealers, who will come to me first with items they have picked up, knowing "I'm the buyer" for that particular piece. I do consider them business friends because they come to me first and offer it to me for what I'm willing to pay (or what I value it). If they got a good deal getting it, I don't really mind. In fact, it's immaterial to me. I suppose they could have just put me in touch with the seller, but honestly I don't have the time to work on deals in that manner. I would much rather let a middle-man bring it to me, even if I have to pay a bit more to avoid the hassle. But, that's just me. I chalk it up to a "finders' fee".

 

Let me say that these are business friends (friends in the hobby who I know through deals, dealers, etc.). I do agree that a true friend would perhaps even acquire the piece and sell to me at cost. I certainly have helped out other collectors this way, and respect that behavior. I just don't think it's absolutely as black and white as you state if they happen to maintain a "finder's fee" of sorts.

 

One caveat, howevver, is that I do agree that the middle-man shouldn't be playing games with the seller, i.e. "I want it for my own collection", "I'm going to keep it", "It's my Grail", and then sell the piece to me at a sizable profit, because in this scenario he/she has duped a seller in the process of getting the piece to me, and I would therefore be party to that behavior.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Hari

 

[irchooker]

Let me say that these are business friends (friends in the hobby who I know through deals, dealers, etc.). I do agree that a true friend would perhaps even acquire the piece and sell to me at cost. I certainly have helped out other collectors this way, and respect that behavior. I just don't think it's absolutely as black and white as you state if they happen to maintain a "finder's fee" of sorts.

 

Where you use the word friend, I would use the word acquaintance.

[Bronty]

This brings up another angle which is that in my experience I have found that in buying/selling that it is feast or famine. Either I buy or sell for top dollar or I can't give away what I'm trying to sell unless I am practically giving it away. Selling OA is not for the meek -- that is for sure! And luckily there have been a few buy/sell deals that have been in between feast/famine -- though it certainly feels like that scenario is more the exception than the norm.

 

, another elephant-- "collectors" who believe they MUST profit on every piece they decide to sell. For me, profit is great, but mostly, it's enough to just get out what I have into a piece. I'll take a loss if I have to. Not ideal...but this is a hobby. I can tell right away the collectors who view OA as a hobby from those who view it as a money-making enterprise.

 

But why can't a person be both? Why does it have to be such a black or white issue? You and I both have bought and sold a ton of art but we are also collectors who truly enjoy the hobby. Sure there are extremes -- people who are only in it for the money or only in it for the hobby -- but most every collector I know (99.9% of them and I know many) has bought, sold, and traded for profit on at least one occasion. There's a ton of grey area and there's no way those terms are mutually exclusive.

 

You and I have talked about this privately at length, but it's been a while and you may have forgotten...

 

No doubt, everyone is here because they love the art form of comics and comic art. And, yes, we've all sold art to varying degrees (although how we go about it is another issue entirely). And, no, I have no problem with profit when it happens organically (without any assistance from undue hype and/or shenanigans which just needlessly raises the market for everyone).

 

However...

 

I cannot be friends with "collectors" in the hobby whose primary motivation is profit. You may consider this a "grey area", but it is very obvious to me. It's a matter of trust. I can't trust those who have an agenda. I can't trust those who will use information I give them to potentially profit off me or others.

 

I'll give an example.

 

Collector A and Collector B are friends. Collector A knows Collector B likes Miller DD. Collector A then finds a prime example in a buried collection. He shows a scan to Collector B. Collector B wants it. Collector B will pay $10K for it.

 

Now...if Collector A was a real friend, wouldn't he just introduce Collector B to the seller?

 

Instead, Collector A inserts himself as a middleman. He tries to negotiate the best price possible with the seller by saying the piece is a "grail" for his "collection" and that he'll "love it forever". He ends up getting it for $8K.

 

He then sells it to Collector B for $10K.

 

Hardly the most egregious example of greed in this hobby. But I could not be friends with someone like Collector A.

 

 

Interesting points felix and hari but bhere's so much grey area though.

 

Let's tweak this example and say there are not one but two buyers for the piece at 10k. Hari, and another Collector C whom is not well known to Collector A. Both Hari and Collector C like the piece but aren't going to die for it, and both are willing to pay exactly 10k. The cost of the piece to Collector A is 5k.

 

Now, is Collector A really supposed to sell the piece to Hari at 5k? Its much like writing Hari a 5k check. Naturally helping out other collectors is great but in this instance it costs Collector A $5k cash to help out Hari. I don't think that's reasonable. So I do think there are situations in which charging the full 10k is reasonable. That being said if Hari is the "only" buyer at that price level then yeah I know where you are coming from.

[Nexus]

Hi Felix,

 

This is a very interesting post. I guess it's how you look at it. I have several friends, including dealers, who will come to me first with items they have picked up, knowing "I'm the buyer" for that particular piece. I do consider them business friends because they come to me first and offer it to me for what I'm willing to pay (or what I value it). If they got a good deal getting it, I don't really mind. In fact, it's immaterial to me. I suppose they could have just put me in touch with the seller, but honestly I don't have the time to work on deals in that manner. I would much rather let a middle-man bring it to me, even if I have to pay a bit more to avoid the hassle. But, that's just me. I chalk it up to a "finders' fee".

 

Let me say that these are business friends (friends in the hobby who I know through deals, dealers, etc.). I do agree that a true friend would perhaps even acquire the piece and sell to me at cost. I certainly have helped out other collectors this way, and respect that behavior. I just don't think it's absolutely as black and white as you state if they happen to maintain a "finder's fee" of sorts.

 

One caveat, howevver, is that I do agree that the middle-man shouldn't be playing games with the seller, i.e. "I want it for my own collection", "I'm going to keep it", "It's my Grail", and then sell the piece to me at a sizable profit, because in this scenario he/she has duped a seller in the process of getting the piece to me, and I would therefore be party to that behavior.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Hari

 

Re: "Business friends"...I agree, there are friends and then there are "business friends" (although I wouldn't necessarily use that same term). The real difference to me, though, is between a collector and a dealer.

 

Everyone has their opinion of this dealer or that dealer. I have no problems with dealers...because you know where you stand from the get-go. Dealers are out to bend you over and they make no apologies for it. There is no pretense.

 

People who present themselves as fellow "collectors", when in fact, they're really dealers, are a different story entirely. If they're using a supposed friendship (as opposed to a business relationship) to profit off you, then that's deceitful.

 

Now, I will happily pay, or even overpay, for art from a friend's collection if I want it. I certainly do not expect anyone to sell me something at cost, or less than market-value, from their collection just because we're friends.

 

But if someone seeks out, or happens to come across, something on my wantlist and then charges me a "finder's fee"? Like you, no problem...if I want it, I want it. But I wouldn't consider that person a "friend", business or otherwise.

[Nexus]

Pieces have been sold to me at cost and I have returned the favor on more than one occasion. Paying it forward is a good thing.

 

Let's just say there's a big difference between selling something "at cost" with no other considerations...and selling something "at cost" because that's the most you can get for it.

[Bronty]

Pieces have been sold to me at cost and I have returned the favor on more than one occasion. Paying it forward is a good thing.

 

Let's just say there's a big difference between selling something "at cost" with no other considerations...and selling something "at cost" because that's the most you can get for it.

 

true. But jeez its such a slippery slope. I mean if you have something worth $10k that you paid $100 for are you really going to sell it for cost even to your best collector friend? I mean a discount for being buddies, having an existing trust/relationship is one thing but are there not limits?

[Nexus]

Pieces have been sold to me at cost and I have returned the favor on more than one occasion. Paying it forward is a good thing.

 

Let's just say there's a big difference between selling something "at cost" with no other considerations...and selling something "at cost" because that's the most you can get for it.

 

true. But jeez its such a slippery slope. I mean if you have something worth $10k that you paid $100 for are you really going to sell it for cost even to your best collector friend? I mean a discount for being buddies, having an existing trust/relationship is one thing but are there not limits?

 

 

That's kinda an extreme example and not really what I was talking about.

 

Again, I don't expect someone to sell a winning lottery ticket to a friend for $1 (or whatever it cost).

 

I'm not saying someone should sell something to a friend for the same amount they paid 20 years ago.

 

I am saying it's not especially "friend-like" to find things on a "friend's" wantlist and then extract a "finder's fee" from them. I mean, to use a friendship to pocket a quick $2K on a flip (in my previous example)...what the hell??

 

I realize stuff like that happens in this hobby and that we can become jaded. Just speaking for myself...your mileage may vary, etc.

[Bronty]

yeah fair enough... I guess in your example you just have to treat them the way they treat you. If someone did that to me then hey if I got piece they wanted all bets would be off

[comix4fun]

Hi Felix,

 

This is a very interesting post. I guess it's how you look at it. I have several friends, including dealers, who will come to me first with items they have picked up, knowing "I'm the buyer" for that particular piece. I do consider them business friends because they come to me first and offer it to me for what I'm willing to pay (or what I value it). If they got a good deal getting it, I don't really mind. In fact, it's immaterial to me. I suppose they could have just put me in touch with the seller, but honestly I don't have the time to work on deals in that manner. I would much rather let a middle-man bring it to me, even if I have to pay a bit more to avoid the hassle. But, that's just me. I chalk it up to a "finders' fee".

 

Let me say that these are business friends (friends in the hobby who I know through deals, dealers, etc.). I do agree that a true friend would perhaps even acquire the piece and sell to me at cost. I certainly have helped out other collectors this way, and respect that behavior. I just don't think it's absolutely as black and white as you state if they happen to maintain a "finder's fee" of sorts.

 

One caveat, howevver, is that I do agree that the middle-man shouldn't be playing games with the seller, i.e. "I want it for my own collection", "I'm going to keep it", "It's my Grail", and then sell the piece to me at a sizable profit, because in this scenario he/she has duped a seller in the process of getting the piece to me, and I would therefore be party to that behavior.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Hari

 

Re: "Business friends"...I agree, there are friends and then there are "business friends" (although I wouldn't necessarily use that same term). The real difference to me, though, is between a collector and a dealer.

 

Everyone has their opinion of this dealer or that dealer. I have no problems with dealers...because you know where you stand from the get-go. Dealers are out to bend you over and they make no apologies for it. There is no pretense.

 

People who present themselves as fellow "collectors", when in fact, they're really dealers, are a different story entirely. If they're using a supposed friendship (as opposed to a business relationship) to profit off you, then that's deceitful.

 

Now, I will happily pay, or even overpay, for art from a friend's collection if I want it. I certainly do not expect anyone to sell me something at cost, or less than market-value, from their collection just because we're friends.

 

But if someone seeks out, or happens to come across, something on my wantlist and then charges me a "finder's fee"? Like you, no problem...if I want it, I want it. But I wouldn't consider that person a "friend", business or otherwise.

 

 

I feel the same way in a lot of respects.

 

There are friends and there are business associates.

 

We aren't talking about a piece you bought for $100 10 years ago, we are talking about seeking out a piece on someone's want list with the express intention of making a profit off of that person. If that's how people view their friends I would hate to see how they view their enemies.

 

Here's a quick friendship test:

If there is a person you know, and you find a piece of art you know he likes and you know he has wanted for a long time do you:

 

A) Seek out a way to get that piece and hold it over his head until you are able to make a profit off of that person?

 

or

 

B) Let that person know you can find that piece of art for them as long as they are willing to pay you $X fee for the information leading to the acquisition of the piece.

 

or

 

C) Seek out a way to get that piece and let that person have it at what you paid for it?

 

or

 

D) Seek out that person, give him all of the contact information for the piece of art and wish them luck in landing a piece they have wanted to get.

 

 

If you didn't answer C or D you have no business calling yourself that person's friend.

 

If you answered A or B and it doesn't bother you, you are a de facto dealer and the person is not your friend, even if you call him your friend, even if you laughed over beers, even if you buried a Thai hooker in the desert outside of Vegas together, you are not friends.

 

I am not saying that anyone who answers A or B is doing something illegal or wrong.

They just aren't anyone's friend in this situation.

 

And I am not talking about selling a piece from your own collection to a friend and taking a loss just to be a friend. That's not what I am discussing here.

 

 

Best,

Chris

[dem1138]

Pieces have been sold to me at cost and I have returned the favor on more than one occasion. Paying it forward is a good thing.

 

Let's just say there's a big difference between selling something "at cost" with no other considerations...and selling something "at cost" because that's the most you can get for it.

 

Sure there is, and I've been a party to both scenarios.

[heartened]

Hi Felix,

 

This is a very interesting post. I guess it's how you look at it. I have several friends, including dealers, who will come to me first with items they have picked up, knowing "I'm the buyer" for that particular piece. I do consider them business friends because they come to me first and offer it to me for what I'm willing to pay (or what I value it). If they got a good deal getting it, I don't really mind. In fact, it's immaterial to me. I suppose they could have just put me in touch with the seller, but honestly I don't have the time to work on deals in that manner. I would much rather let a middle-man bring it to me, even if I have to pay a bit more to avoid the hassle. But, that's just me. I chalk it up to a "finders' fee".

 

Let me say that these are business friends (friends in the hobby who I know through deals, dealers, etc.). I do agree that a true friend would perhaps even acquire the piece and sell to me at cost. I certainly have helped out other collectors this way, and respect that behavior. I just don't think it's absolutely as black and white as you state if they happen to maintain a "finder's fee" of sorts.

 

One caveat, howevver, is that I do agree that the middle-man shouldn't be playing games with the seller, i.e. "I want it for my own collection", "I'm going to keep it", "It's my Grail", and then sell the piece to me at a sizable profit, because in this scenario he/she has duped a seller in the process of getting the piece to me, and I would therefore be party to that behavior.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Hari

 

Re: "Business friends"...I agree, there are friends and then there are "business friends" (although I wouldn't necessarily use that same term). The real difference to me, though, is between a collector and a dealer.

 

Everyone has their opinion of this dealer or that dealer. I have no problems with dealers...because you know where you stand from the get-go. Dealers are out to bend you over and they make no apologies for it. There is no pretense.

 

People who present themselves as fellow "collectors", when in fact, they're really dealers, are a different story entirely. If they're using a supposed friendship (as opposed to a business relationship) to profit off you, then that's deceitful.

 

Now, I will happily pay, or even overpay, for art from a friend's collection if I want it. I certainly do not expect anyone to sell me something at cost, or less than market-value, from their collection just because we're friends.

 

But if someone seeks out, or happens to come across, something on my wantlist and then charges me a "finder's fee"? Like you, no problem...if I want it, I want it. But I wouldn't consider that person a "friend", business or otherwise.

 

 

I feel the same way in a lot of respects.

 

There are friends and there are business associates.

 

We aren't talking about a piece you bought for $100 10 years ago, we are talking about seeking out a piece on someone's want list with the express intention of making a profit off of that person. If that's how people view their friends I would hate to see how they view their enemies.

 

Here's a quick friendship test:

If there is a person you know, and you find a piece of art you know he likes and you know he has wanted for a long time do you:

 

A) Seek out a way to get that piece and hold it over his head until you are able to make a profit off of that person?

 

or

 

B) Let that person know you can find that piece of art for them as long as they are willing to pay you $X fee for the information leading to the acquisition of the piece.

 

or

 

C) Seek out a way to get that piece and let that person have it at what you paid for it?

 

or

 

D) Seek out that person, give him all of the contact information for the piece of art and wish them luck in landing a piece they have wanted to get.

 

 

If you didn't answer C or D you have no business calling yourself that person's friend.

 

If you answered A or B and it doesn't bother you, you are a de facto dealer and the person is not your friend, even if you call him your friend, even if you laughed over beers, even if you buried a Thai hooker in the desert outside of Vegas together, you are not friends.

 

I am not saying that anyone who answers A or B is doing something illegal or wrong.

They just aren't anyone's friend in this situation.

 

And I am not talking about selling a piece from your own collection to a friend and taking a loss just to be a friend. That's not what I am discussing here.

 

 

Best,

Chris

 

I completely agree with this, Chris and Felix. A true friend does C or D. But, I have dealer associates/friends or whatever you want to call a 20 year relationship within the hobby who will preferentially hold pieces for me, even if they can get the same or slightly more from someone else. Call it what you want, but I give them some credit for it. They don't seek out pieces on my want list, per se, but if they happen to find something I might like, they buy it and offer me first dibs. That dealer is more a "friend" to me than other dealers. Grey zone, I know.

 

[CollectingFool]

How about this for a scenario...

 

Someone you've known for about a year calls you. Not friends really but you've done some transactions and have had the usual art discussions. They called because there is a piece they want and it's something they know is exactly up your alley, something you'd want for your self and art you specialize in. Because you've been at collecting OA longer, they figured you'd know where it is. They've never seen the original art, they don't even know if it exists. The exact words used are "can you do me a favor and help me find this".

 

Well, in the spirit of doing a fellow collector a favor, you find the page. It's something you would definitely want for yourself but instead of working out the deal for yourself, you negotiate a good price, contact the guy that asked and tell him where to get it and how much it will be. The price is a little over 1/2 what he was originally willing to spend. He says "great, do you want a finder's fee" and you say "No, you asked me for a favor and I'm doing this as a favor. Just please if you're ever going to sell it, let me know."

 

Four months go by and you get an email. The guy has changed his mind and his entire collecting focus and is now selling the page. He contacted you first. You say great, how much. The price is now full retail and considerably more than the deal you got for him just four months ago. When you protest, the answer is "Nothing personal, just business."

 

What's the proper reaction there?

 

Ruben

http://www.collectingfool.com

 

 

 

 

[comix4fun]

How about this for a scenario...

 

Someone you've known for about a year calls you. Not friends really but you've done some transactions and have had the usual art discussions. They called because there is a piece they want and since it's something that is exactly up your alley, art you specialize in. Because you've been at collecting OA longer, they figured you'd know where it is. The exact words used are "can you do me a favor and help me find this".

 

Well, in the spirit of doing a fellow collector a favor, you find the page. It's something you would definitely want for yourself but instead of working out the deal for yourself, you negotiate a good price, contact the guy that asked and tell them where to get it and how much it will be. The price is a little over 1/2 what he was originally willing to spend. He says "great, do you want a finder's fee" and you say "No, you asked me for a favor and I'm doing this as a favor. Just please if you're ever going to sell it, let me know."

 

Four months go by and you get an email. The guy has changed his mind and his entire collecting focus and is now selling the page. He contacted you first. You say great, how much. The price is now full retail and considerably more than the deal you got for him just four months ago. When you protest, the answer is "Nothing personal, just business."

 

What's the proper reaction there?

 

Ruben

http://www.collectingfool.com

 

 

 

 

 

The proper response is "This is where you tell me that price was a joke and instead you sell it to me for a price indicative of the favor I did for you", or " I am calling in your marker big guy, return the favor."

 

I go by the "Lessons the Godfather taught me" school of thought. There aren't too many things worse than a favor for another that goes un-returned.

 

Frankly, someone who can't/won't/refuses to return a favor deserves all the scorn you can pile on him. Also, a public outing.

 

C

[heartened]

How about this for a scenario...

 

Someone you've known for about a year calls you. Not friends really but you've done some transactions and have had the usual art discussions. They called because there is a piece they want and since it's something that is exactly up your alley, art you specialize in. Because you've been at collecting OA longer, they figured you'd know where it is. The exact words used are "can you do me a favor and help me find this".

 

Well, in the spirit of doing a fellow collector a favor, you find the page. It's something you would definitely want for yourself but instead of working out the deal for yourself, you negotiate a good price, contact the guy that asked and tell them where to get it and how much it will be. The price is a little over 1/2 what he was originally willing to spend. He says "great, do you want a finder's fee" and you say "No, you asked me for a favor and I'm doing this as a favor. Just please if you're ever going to sell it, let me know."

 

Four months go by and you get an email. The guy has changed his mind and his entire collecting focus and is now selling the page. He contacted you first. You say great, how much. The price is now full retail and considerably more than the deal you got for him just four months ago. When you protest, the answer is "Nothing personal, just business."

 

What's the proper reaction there?

 

Ruben

http://www.collectingfool.com

 

 

 

 

That is NOT a friend, and I don't have friends or acquaintances like that. And yes, I consider myself fortunate. But, to be honest, I have not put myself in that position, and doubt I ever would. I would not get a piece of art for someone else when I myself covet that particular art.

 

 

 

[CollectingFool]

Chris - I don't do public outings. I will talk about any transaction I've done but even if I feel wronged I'm not naming names publicly. This whole thing started almost 4 years ago and if I didn't say anything then, I'm not saying it now. They can come forward on their own. As for my reaction, I just reread my emails to make sure I was being accurate and my exact response was "Dude, this is screwed up!" followed by (much to my surprise) not a single vulgarity.

 

Hari - Are you sure you don't have any acquaintances like this? I think you might.

 

Ruben

http://www.collectingfool.com

[igotnogame]

The first time I did a trade with a dealer (because I didn't want to spend the cash), I realized shortly after that I would have done much better had *I* just Ebay'd what I traded myself. I could have bought the piece I wanted outright with plenty of cash left over. Lesson learned.

 

That's what I recently did, and how I was able to get the piece I was chasing and have leftovers that can go towards a future purchase.

 

The difference is that the two pages I ended up selling weren't involved in any sort of trade for the piece I am getting, it was strictly a cash only deal. I just looked at my collection and assessed which pieces I felt I could let go of in order to make room for the new piece.

 

Later.

-Will

 

 

 

[Nexus]

 

What's the proper reaction there?

 

Ruben

http://www.collectingfool.com

 

 

 

 

[delekkerste]

I'll give an example.

 

Collector A and Collector B are friends. Collector A knows Collector B likes Miller DD. Collector A then finds a prime example in a buried collection. He shows a scan to Collector B. Collector B wants it. Collector B will pay $10K for it.

 

Now...if Collector A was a real friend, wouldn't he just introduce Collector B to the seller?

 

Hi, "Collector B" here,

 

As one of the parties in the transaction above, I thought I'd put in my . I have to agree with Bronty vs. those who are painting the money/business/friendship issue in strict black & white terms - there is definitely a lot of grey area here and where the lines are drawn can be unclear.

 

In this particular example, by no means do I have a monopoly on collecting Miller Elektra pages. In fact, having two nice pages from DD #168 already, I wasn't even necessarily looking to add another page. While I am, in principle, always interested in good Elektra pages, I never targeted this particular page or said to Collector A or anyone else that I had to have this page if it ever surfaced.

 

Collector A could have easily bought this page and shopped it around. In fact, he could very well have gotten more for it. I am quite sure from the e-mails I have received that I could make a tidy profit on the page were I to sell it now. I am not at all unhappy at having purchased the page for $10K, regardless of Collector A's cost basis. It was a situation where I assumed from the start that there would "be something in it" for Collector A (besides the celebratory dinner we had at Sushi Samba after the page finally arrived after being lost in the postal system), and I never begrudged him for that because I thought that giving me the exclusive shot at this very desirable page at a fair price was more than courtesy enough given the level of our friendship back then (which has only strengthened since).

 

Mixing friendship and money is always a tricky thing. There are many cases where I would "pay it forward", especially to a long-time friend. And, clearly, the situation that Ruben described is just appalling. But, what about the situations in-between? I mean, if I find an Action #1 at a flea market for $5, I don't care who the friend is, I'm not passing along the book at cost no matter how badly he wants it!

 

Prior to my getting a BWS page from Conan #23 of my own, I always hoped that Hari would give me a shot at his page from that book if he ever sold it. Now, Hari and I are very good friends, but would I expect him to sell it to me for, say, $16K if he had another offer of $20K? When he knows full well that I could at least match the competing offer? I mean, if I matched the $20K offer and Hari still went with the other guy's offer (assuming no mitigating circumstances), that might irk me. But, to expect Hari to leave money on the table for no real reason other than my tightfistedness - I think that would say more about my shortcomings as a friend than anything about him.

 

Just my

 

Gene

 

 

[artcollector9]

Great post Gene.

 

Usually, fellow collectors who are friends are collectors first, friends second.

 

I've ben in this hobby 35+ years. Collector friend 'A' loves a piece of mine, I sell it on the cheap, 1 year later collector 'A' sells it at 2X cost, tells me 'I needed the money'.

 

I used to sell scalped tickets to concerts in the 1980s. Once in a while someone would beg me for great seats at cost. I'd sell them, and almost ALWAYS they'd resell at a great profit ("I couldn't go at the last minute')...family members have done this as well.

 

I give a 'discount' to 1-2 collector friends. Business is business. Collecting art is a business. It became so when prices entered the stratosphere.

 

Let me put it another way--friends shouldn't want me to lose money...and I don't want THEM to either.

 

If I want something from another collector friend's collection, I think the 'favor' is to sell it to me at fair market value--first refusal as Gene and others have said. I'm grateful for the chance to pay a fair price for a great piece. Why should I impose on him to sell it to me at below fair market--especially since I want to reserve the right to sell or trade it in the future at full price should I feel my collection's growth warrants that?

 

Rob

 

[Nexus]

I'm not entirely naive...if someone offers to broker a deal for me, I assume there's something in it for them. Anything short of just introducing me to the seller or giving me the lead, there's probably something in it for them.

 

And that's fine. I just wouldn't consider that person a real friend. I'm not offended when casual acquaintances offer to sell me things I want. Like you, if the price is right for me, it doesn't matter what they paid for it. But if someone I believed to be a friend saw a chance to make a quick buck off me? Yeah, I'd be disappointed.

 

Chris/Comix4fun's test sums it up perfectly for me.

 

I agree with everything else you've written (and said so already in previous posts).