Knowing the Previous Price or even the Original Price

[Spider-Variant]

So, I'm tracking this piece on ebay that I would love to have but can not buy because of lack of funding.

 

I know the last time this page sold on ebay and what it went for back in 2003. I also know what it was listed at last year with no one bidding at the starting price. Additionally, since I own several pages from the book, I know about what the page was first sold at by the agent of the artist.

 

All that said, I know I'm gong to be shocked at the final price being as high as it will be, if it meets the reserve. Now, we are only talking probably $300-$400 hundred over for this ten year old page.

 

Am I just being cheap knowing I would never pay that money because I knew the original price and don't think the years warrant the price increase?

 

Or should I keep telling myself that I am wise not to overpay, look what that guy bought it at?

 

Just looking to start a little conversation this morning.

[Big Daddy]

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. What somebody paid for a piece years ago has little to do with what it's worth today. Just look at what Action 1 went for in 1970. For that matter look at the fact that people are paying hundreds, thousands of dollars for comics that originally sold for $.12. It all depends on if you really want the page or not. If you do then try and work out a deal, if not move on. I'm sure everyone would love to buy artwork today for 1970's prices but that just isn't going to happen. Sometimes you just have to accept the idea that some pieces will never be in your price range, that happens to me on a daily basis with 98% of the art I'd love to own.

[Spider-Variant]

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. What somebody paid for a piece years ago has little to do with what it's worth today. Just look at what Action 1 went for in 1970. For that matter look at the fact that people are paying hundreds, thousands of dollars for comics that originally sold for $.12. It all depends on if you really want the page or not. If you do then try and work out a deal, if not move on. I'm sure everyone would love to buy artwork today for 1970's prices but that just isn't going to happen. Sometimes you just have to accept the idea that some pieces will never be in your price range, that happens to me on a daily basis with 98% of the art I'd love to own.

 

Well, it's not so much it's not in my price range (if I really wanted it), it's more knowing that just because the piece is 10 years old, that I can't see the financial appreciation of the piece. In my mind the question is "what has happened to warrant the price increase."

 

And yes I understand your point, but those 70s pieces are now classic. I can't say a lot of 1999s stuff is classic.

[CollectingFool]

Depends on the piece. Give us details and the answers can be more specific.

 

 

[comix4fun]

Comic book and comic art fans LOVE to torture themselves by looking at old catalogs and sale flyers and auction results. I am no exception. It's the "time machine" fantasy, really.

 

"Man I wish I could go back to X year and buy Amazing Fantasy 15 for $100...I would buy every copy he had."

 

Frankly, it's impossible to expect pretty much anything to be less expensive over time, unless you are talking about electronics. Demand for quality artwork, inflation, average income have all increased over time. That combination of factors equates to increased prices.

 

Something costing more than it did X years ago is expected. It doesn't stop people from spending $100k on a new Corvette ZR1 just because it was $3600 in 1958, or people from buying a half million dollar house because it only cost $40,000 when it was built in the 60's.

 

Using what artwork used to cost, or what it cost when the artist first sold it is the easiest way to never ever buy another piece of artwork.

 

Watchmen pages were $200 at one point, Dark Knight pages were $300-400 and Killing Joke pages were $500. Demand for those pages has causes prices to rise to their current levels.

 

Looking back at what a piece of art used to cost is nothing but self inflicted torture. Don't do it to yourself.

 

Best,

Chris

[heartened]

Comic book and comic art fans LOVE to torture themselves by looking at old catalogs and sale flyers and auction results. I am no exception. It's the "time machine" fantasy, really.

 

"Man I wish I could go back to X year and buy Amazing Fantasy 15 for $100...I would buy every copy he had."

 

Frankly, it's impossible to expect pretty much anything to be less expensive over time, unless you are talking about electronics. Demand for quality artwork, inflation, average income have all increased over time. That combination of factors equates to increased prices.

 

Something costing more than it did X years ago is expected. It doesn't stop people from spending $100k on a new Corvette ZR1 just because it was $3600 in 1958, or people from buying a half million dollar house because it only cost $40,000 when it was built in the 60's.

 

Using what artwork used to cost, or what it cost when the artist first sold it is the easiest way to never ever buy another piece of artwork.

 

Watchmen pages were $200 at one point, Dark Knight pages were $300-400 and Killing Joke pages were $500. Demand for those pages has causes prices to rise to their current levels.

 

Looking back at what a piece of art used to cost is nothing but self inflicted torture. Don't do it to yourself.

 

Best,

Chris

 

I'll echo Chris's point here. What art was initially sold for, or what it was last sold for are irrelevant. We all torture ourselves this way, but in the end it's just a source of amusement. Now, you're talking about price escalation over a 10 year period. Most art from any book with a half-way-decent fan base has appreciated in that time period.

 

I will say that when this happens over a short period, say a few weeks, I begin to scratch my head. An example would be someone buying something on Heritage one week and then putting it up on their site within a week at double the sale price. That I just don't understand, unless they are fishing for trade.

 

Hari

 

[Nexus]

So, I'm tracking this piece on ebay that I would love to have but can not buy because of lack of funding.

 

I know the last time this page sold on ebay and what it went for back in 2003. I also know what it was listed at last year with no one bidding at the starting price. Additionally, since I own several pages from the book, I know about what the page was first sold at by the agent of the artist.

 

All that said, I know I'm gong to be shocked at the final price being as high as it will be, if it meets the reserve. Now, we are only talking probably $300-$400 hundred over for this ten year old page.

 

Am I just being cheap knowing I would never pay that money because I knew the original price and don't think the years warrant the price increase?

 

Or should I keep telling myself that I am wise not to overpay, look what that guy bought it at?

 

Just looking to start a little conversation this morning.

 

If/when you sell your art, will you ask exactly what you paid for it? Now matter how long you've had it?

 

I've seen this in comics. There are those who are vehement against setting GPA records when it comes to buying...but seem to have no qualms about that when it comes to selling!

 

Anyhow, I know what you're talking about. We all kick ourselves over missed opportunities. But the fact is, you didn't buy this page back in 2003. I've passed on various pieces over the years, regretted it, and paid more when a second chance came along. It really depends on the situation (I'll never be happy to buy art that was acquired solely for a flip or if someone is trying their best to shake me down because they know it's something I'd really like to have), but if it's a piece you really want, you may have to bite the bullet. I know I'm generally happier about buying things on Ebay because the market value *feels* more acceptable (and less arbitrary).

 

I've seen many collectors who are just crippled by this obsession with what a piece originally cost. After a while, it really is irrelevant.

 

 

[lscomics]

I have to agree with what's been said here, however, I've also seen pages sell for $400-500 at one point then be resold and go for less. With money being tight for most people it wouldn't surprise me to see this happening more often during the next year or so.

[Khazano]

This has worked for me in the opposite way recently.

 

I collect Ultimate Spider-Man art. I've got a nice bit of it and have been collecting since issue #1. Through the magic of the "way back machine" / internet archives Im able to look at Spencers webpage from the past 10 years and check out what he originally listed (and subsequently sold) any given Ultimate Spiderman page for.

 

This past year I pretty much absorbed 80% another collectors USM collection, and the reason I kept buying pieces from him were mainly because he was selling them 20-60% cheaper than they originally costed. In the beginning I was content with buying two pieces out of his collection and going my own way. But he kept on offering pieces out so much cheaper than they originally listed for 5+ years ago, I just couldnt help myself. Had I not been constantly checking the wayback machine too see "what type of deal I was getting", I probably wouldnt have bought half of it.

 

[bocaratondefense]

I obsess over pricing history as well. If someone won a page in Heritage only two months ago for $2000, I have a hard time believing that the same page is worth $6000. In that instance, I just kick myself for not trying harder at auction, and almost for certain I would pass. But for 2003 sale prices, I look at those as a point of reference only, and I readily accept that pages may have doubled or tripled or more in price.

 

[malvin]

I obsess over pricing history as well. If someone won a page in Heritage only two months ago for $2000, I have a hard time believing that the same page is worth $6000. In that instance, I just kick myself for not trying harder at auction, and almost for certain I would pass. But for 2003 sale prices, I look at those as a point of reference only, and I readily accept that pages may have doubled or tripled or more in price.

 

My view on that dichotomy is simple. Auction prices is not market value. It is a liquidation price.

 

Especially if the dollar figures get high, not many people can come up with several thousand with little notice.

 

Even for medium end pieces, how many of us came in as the underbidder and wished that we had bid more to win?

 

The same piece being displayed in a "store" will fetch more because people that want it will have more time to come up with the cash.

 

Malvin

[Nexus]

To clarify my earlier point about past pricing being irrelevant...you've just got to know the market. Not everything increases in value over time (although, for the most part in this hobby, you have to accept that it has). If you base your buying decision on what something originally cost and only want to pay that...well, what if it was overvalued in the first place?

 

The recent discussion about animation cels is a perfect example. They aren't worth what they used to be, so what they cost before means nothing when it comes to buying them today.

 

It really pays to do your homework. Not so much in regards to past pricing, but in knowing realistic present-day value.

[Spider-Variant]

Wow, I really appreciate all the friendly discussion. There have been a lot of great points brought up.

 

I guess sometimes I just need to let it go.

 

 

[micmack]

I remember seeing at a con, the opening double spread to House of Secrets with swamp things 1st appearance. It was priced by Bernie at $400. IFor me (still in college, no money etc.) it might as well have been $4000. Same day, John Totleben and Steve Bissett whip out a double spread from Saga (the one with Arcane and his demons holding Abbey) for a mere $500. I believe I only had $10 to my name. knowing and acting on it are two diff things...

[Brian Peck]

When I see something on heritage or ebay that I don't know the market for do check heritage history. It isnt always accurate but gives me a ballpark for what it might go for. Ya some prices could be more or less depending on the auction. When the Warren Vampirella #2 prelim by Bill Hughes from 1969 was on heritage earlier this year, I checked and it was sold on heritage three years before. My winning bid was $150 than what it went for three years prior so I got a deal.

 

 

[BucOne-migration]

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. What somebody paid for a piece years ago has little to do with what it's worth today. Just look at what Action 1 went for in 1970. For that matter look at the fact that people are paying hundreds, thousands of dollars for comics that originally sold for $.12. It all depends on if you really want the page or not. If you do then try and work out a deal, if not move on. I'm sure everyone would love to buy artwork today for 1970's prices but that just isn't going to happen. Sometimes you just have to accept the idea that some pieces will never be in your price range, that happens to me on a daily basis with 98% of the art I'd love to own.

 

lot's of factors involved, like popularity of the piece, artist and who really wants this piece. Auctions are misleading since 2 ppl can drive up a bidding war. If there isn't much interest then the piece could sell less or about the same as the original price. I'm sure then ppl will respond with comments like what a great deal, you got a steal. So, you have to listen to yourself and bid what you feel is the best price and don't chase it like a stock.

[BucOne-migration]

Comic book and comic art fans LOVE to torture themselves by looking at old catalogs and sale flyers and auction results. I am no exception. It's the "time machine" fantasy, really.

 

"Man I wish I could go back to X year and buy Amazing Fantasy 15 for $100...I would buy every copy he had."

 

Frankly, it's impossible to expect pretty much anything to be less expensive over time, unless you are talking about electronics. Demand for quality artwork, inflation, average income have all increased over time. That combination of factors equates to increased prices.

 

Something costing more than it did X years ago is expected. It doesn't stop people from spending $100k on a new Corvette ZR1 just because it was $3600 in 1958, or people from buying a half million dollar house because it only cost $40,000 when it was built in the 60's.

 

Using what artwork used to cost, or what it cost when the artist first sold it is the easiest way to never ever buy another piece of artwork.

 

Watchmen pages were $200 at one point, Dark Knight pages were $300-400 and Killing Joke pages were $500. Demand for those pages has causes prices to rise to their current levels.

 

Looking back at what a piece of art used to cost is nothing but self inflicted torture. Don't do it to yourself.

 

Best,

Chris

 

examples of supply and demand, NOT true market value.

[BucOne-migration]

I obsess over pricing history as well. If someone won a page in Heritage only two months ago for $2000, I have a hard time believing that the same page is worth $6000. In that instance, I just kick myself for not trying harder at auction, and almost for certain I would pass. But for 2003 sale prices, I look at those as a point of reference only, and I readily accept that pages may have doubled or tripled or more in price.

 

probably true, but if they come along and announce a movie for the art that could easily send it sky rocketing.

 

only true key to what a piece is worth is what someone is willing to pay, hype can

mantipulate the price and so many other variables.

[r1982rhoads]

What the price of a piece was a few years back is irrelevant...think GM, Citigroup or Lehman Bros stock. Current market is all that matters, bounded by supply and demand and expectations... I missed the cover for IM 283 for 250 bucks...i would pay 10 times that price for that piece now or more.

 

 

[Claudio]

examples of supply and demand, NOT true market value.

are you serious? supply and demand ARE what makes mrket value!!! how else would you come up with market value?