why is ASM #129 considered a bigger key then Conan #1?

[MR.COMICBOOK]

worldwide Conan is a much bigger well known hero then Punisher yet ASM #129 commands higher prices then Conan 1, in fact ASM #129 is a consistenty good seller even in mid-grade. any theories why or is Conan #1 undervalued?

[joe_collector]

1) SUPPLY

 

Conan #1 was back in the day where #1 issues were king and it was one of the most-speculated books of its era. Had Punisher debuted in a similar #1 issue, it would have been mass-hoarded and worth less than Conan #1.

 

2) Amazing Spider-man

 

ASM has ruled the roost over the last decade, and the fact that it's part of that very popular and valuable run certainly adds significantly to its value. Just look at what common ASM's in the 120's bring in CGC high-grade, compared to less popular titles.

[JayT]

I'd surmise part of the reason is that any potential source of this 'worldwide' interest in the first appearance of Conan doesn't even consider comic books, and their attraction to the character is largely not focused on the comic medium at all.

 

Edit -

 

If Punisher first appeared in '30s pulps, nobody would care about ASM#129 either (or at least to the extent they do now).

 

[mrlatko]

Good question! IMO, The Punisher holds a certain mystique in today's comic collecting community that Conan does not. Punisher is also revered in pop culture by kids that don't even collect. It seems that I see the Punisher's skull logo on someone's shirt or hat almost daily, but no Conan. Punisher's brand of justice makes sense to society here in the early 21st century as people are fed up with criminals and terrorists and are fascinated with his shoot first ask questions later mentality. His limited series in the early 80s was hugely successful and spring-boarded him into his own title and mainstream popularity in the late 80s. The character has never really looked back since.

 

Another poster pointed to Spider-Man's popularity as helping spring-board #129 into being the key issue it remains today. I agree with this of course. It does help that this happened in the middle of an already very successful Spidey run and not in a hoarded #1 issue.

 

As cool as Conan is and the cover to #1 is, he just doesn't have the broad appeal today that Frank Castle does.

 

Another theory is that the comic book sub plot in that Coyote Ugly movie is forcing prices to rise on Spidey #129

[thehumantorch]

Punisher has more universal appeal and the majority of comic book collectors favor super heroes and super villians over other types of characters including sword and sorcery types.

 

I love early Conan and think it is undervalued but he needs to come to the present and wear a mask and super hero outfit to increase in value.

[the blob]

I'd surmise part of the reason is that any potential source of this 'worldwide' interest in the first appearance of Conan doesn't even consider comic books, and their attraction to the character is largely not focused on the comic medium at all.

 

Edit -

 

If Punisher first appeared in '30s pulps, nobody would care about ASM#129 either (or at least to the extent they do now).

 

Exactly. Conan #1 was like Conan's 109th appearance in written/illustrated form and was almost 50 years after the fact. It was just his first in comics.

 

With that said, I don't think those Arnold Conan movies get made if there wasn't a bunch of very popular Conan comics/magazines. Were Conan paperbacks still selling well in the late 70's/early 80's?

 

Not only was Conan 1 speculated on, but it was "worth" something from the start. Even if we're only talking $1...that's almost 7X cover! And by 1982 it was one of the most expensive Marvels outside of the keys from 1961-1963. ASM 129 was just another Spidey book for a long time (though I have no reason why, it's not like ASM 14 or FF 5 weren't broken out back then), available in 25 and 50 cent boxes into the mid-80's (maybe not in NM). This had to impact the # of copies kept in nice shape (not like ASM 129 is "tough" in HG, but everything is relative).

[the blob]

Punisher has more universal appeal and the majority of comic book collectors favor super heroes and super villians over other types of characters including sword and sorcery types.

 

I love early Conan and think it is undervalued but he needs to come to the present and wear a mask and super hero outfit to increase in value.

 

As already noted in this and other threads, this was certainly not the case for the first 15 or so years after Conan 1 came out. I guess he just fizzled a little bit. There is/was so much Sword and Sorcery fiction out there, COnan was just one of the options I guess and a bit crude for a lot of the fantasy type folks out there.

[tth2]

With that said, I don't think those Arnold Conan movies get made if there wasn't a bunch of very popular Conan comics/magazines.

True.

[kimik]

Punisher has more universal appeal and the majority of comic book collectors favor super heroes and super villians over other types of characters including sword and sorcery types.

 

I love early Conan and think it is undervalued but he needs to come to the present and wear a mask and super hero outfit to increase in value.

 

As already noted in this and other threads, this was certainly not the case for the first 15 or so years after Conan 1 came out. I guess he just fizzled a little bit. There is/was so much Sword and Sorcery fiction out there, COnan was just one of the options I guess and a bit crude for a lot of the fantasy type folks out there.

 

I think the drop off occurred after BWS stopped drawing the book with #23 or #24. He hit his stride on the book in the early teens and just one year later was gone. While I like Buscema's Conan, it is nowhere near as nice as the peak BWS issues.

 

The other point about Conan being a pulp creation applies as well, I guess. That and the fact that the Sword & Sorcery genre is basically dead comic-wise now.

[Boboset]

I'd surmise part of the reason is that any potential source of this 'worldwide' interest in the first appearance of Conan doesn't even consider comic books, and their attraction to the character is largely not focused on the comic medium at all.

 

Edit -

 

If Punisher first appeared in '30s pulps, nobody would care about ASM#129 either (or at least to the extent they do now).

 

Exactly. Conan #1 was like Conan's 109th appearance in written/illustrated form and was almost 50 years after the fact. It was just his first in comics.

 

With that said, I don't think those Arnold Conan movies get made if there wasn't a bunch of very popular Conan comics/magazines. Were Conan paperbacks still selling well in the late 70's/early 80's?

 

Not only was Conan 1 speculated on, but it was "worth" something from the start. Even if we're only talking $1...that's almost 7X cover! And by 1982 it was one of the most expensive Marvels outside of the keys from 1961-1963. ASM 129 was just another Spidey book for a long time (though I have no reason why, it's not like ASM 14 or FF 5 weren't broken out back then), available in 25 and 50 cent boxes into the mid-80's (maybe not in NM). This had to impact the # of copies kept in nice shape (not like ASM 129 is "tough" in HG, but everything is relative).

 

That seems to sum it up for me. I always come late to the threads where I have something worthwhile to contribute.

[Norrin_Radd]

Another theory is that the comic book sub plot in that Coyote Ugly movie is forcing prices to rise on Spidey #129

I saw that movie before I started collecting comics so.....

 

 

[seanfingh]

 

I grimaced at the way they handled that book in the movie. They also said that it was worth 5k. However, Piper Perabo makes everything a little better.

[precodekeith]

With that said, I don't think those Arnold Conan movies get made if there wasn't a bunch of very popular Conan comics/magazines. Were Conan paperbacks still selling well in the late 70's/early 80's?

 

I got into comic book collecting via Conan around '81 or '82, and it lead to the paperbacks. I'd say the comic book sales had a huge roll in the production of the movies.

 

While I have no sales figures to back this up, it is my belief based on my recollection of the times, that the paperbacks were selling well, too. It was around '83, I think, when Ace came out with new editions (from white border Frazetta covers to full bleeds). Anyway, all of my friends who were reading Conan comics then were also reading the paperbacks. That's just a handfull of twelve year olds though, doesn't actually prove anything...

 

As for ASM 129 vs. Conan 1, I think someone summed it up quite well when they pointed out that Conan may have a bigger worldwide appeal, but comic collecting is still a very American-centric hobby, and that presently means superhero, superhero, superhero.

[buttock]

Keith Contarino wrote about ASM 129 in the early 1990s, saying something to the effect of - ASM was stagnant at the time and the introduction of the Punisher really stoked the fires in terms of popularity. That would imply that the introduction of the Punisher was indirectly responsible for ASM becoming the phenomenon it has.

 

I have no idea if this is true, but I read that recently and thought it was interesting.

[joe_collector]

Keith Contarino wrote about ASM 129 in the early 1990s, saying something to the effect of - ASM was stagnant at the time and the introduction of the Punisher really stoked the fires in terms of popularity. That would imply that the introduction of the Punisher was indirectly responsible for ASM becoming the phenomenon it has.

 

 

Keith C is a great guy, but he should really stick to the SA.

 

Spidey was Marvel's best-selling title from the late-SA right into the early-CA, where X-Men took over.

[kidcolt]

I think the Marvel Conan issues 1-20 will have a big price increase over the next few years.

[jjonahjameson1]

worldwide Conan is a much bigger well known hero then Punisher yet ASM #129 commands higher prices then Conan 1, in fact ASM #129 is a consistenty good seller even in mid-grade. any theories why or is Conan #1 undervalued?

 

Well known does not necessarily equate to being in demand. I think its safe to say that Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck have far greater worldwide familiarity than Conan, yet a NM copy of a Bronze Age Mickey Mouse can be had for $10-20.

But how many people want to actually spend the money on it?

 

Same with Conan vs Punisher. Sure, perhaps Conan has wider recognition, but how does that recognition actually translate to demand for a comic book

 

[Bronty]

worldwide Conan is a much bigger well known hero then Punisher yet ASM #129 commands higher prices then Conan 1, in fact ASM #129 is a consistenty good seller even in mid-grade. any theories why or is Conan #1 undervalued?

 

ASM 129 is just the better book IMO... doesn't even really need a debate.

[MR.COMICBOOK]

worldwide Conan is a much bigger well known hero then Punisher yet ASM #129 commands higher prices then Conan 1, in fact ASM #129 is a consistenty good seller even in mid-grade. any theories why or is Conan #1 undervalued?

 

ASM 129 is just the better book IMO... doesn't even really need a debate.

well things might change after a new Conan reboot movie, hence that`s why I mentioned the undervalued part. the latest Punisher movie did lower box office then the Spirit movie. it must be the Spider-man angle that JC alluded to that makes ASM#129 a semi-hot bronze age key.

[jjonahjameson1]

worldwide Conan is a much bigger well known hero then Punisher yet ASM #129 commands higher prices then Conan 1, in fact ASM #129 is a consistenty good seller even in mid-grade. any theories why or is Conan #1 undervalued?

 

ASM 129 is just the better book IMO... doesn't even really need a debate.

well things might change after a new Conan reboot movie, hence that`s why I mentioned the undervalued part. the latest Punisher movie did lower box office then the Spirit movie. it must be the Spider-man angle that JC alluded to that makes ASM#129 a semi-hot bronze age key.

 

I don't think Conan #1 is undervalued. Lots of them out there in high grade, without demand to match.