And people wonder why folks get a little bit peeved...

[awe4one]

The love of the medium itself is now overshadowed by the love of the mediums condition.

 

The hobby is dying under its own weight.

 

No it's not...people that truly love the hobby are being vocal about what they are seeing in this hobby.

 

I love the hobby.

I think that pressing is not restoration.

 

Though I think we can disagree like men...

 

Jim

[Sal]

We are talking on a Forum and debating the issue through words. If you can't do so coherently without one-on-one contact, and without a sarcastic comment, then I suggest you dismiss yourself from the discussiion.

 

Would you recommend that Tim do the same?

 

 

Yes but I can understand the frustratiion as we're pretty much out-numbered here and fighting to have a voice...

 

I can understand why he said it....

 

Jim

 

i can't. i'm disappointed in Tim.

 

 

no level of frustration justifies the type of comment he made, especially since it was not geared to a subset of "pressers" who do not disclose but rather the whole of those who engage in the practice.

 

 

i'm frustrated about a lot of things in the hobby, but using pejoratives to support my frustration would be juvenile.

[MCMiles]

You are only going to see it the way you want to Jim, but your statement here is wrong. Even if there is some truth to it, do you really want to get in to a "they started it" pizzing match? As suspected, disclosure was never enough, and now the fact that pressing isn't going away has frustrated at least one person to the point of throwing out insults at a whole group of people. Arex started this thread based on one jerk's out of the blue comment. The same jerk has even come forward and said it again in this thread, and has stated that he will continue to be outspoken about it. You all should feel free to say anything negative about pressing "practice" you would like, but there is no reason to throw out blanket statements about pressers/pro-pressers - about people you don't even know. It's directly disrespectful, and yes, I'll take it personal.

 

Disclosure is enough. I've never said otheriwse, and apprecaite, those that do and bought from a number of them.

 

It's such a hot-button topic though, and I'm not sure the pressing crowd appreciates this, that some poeple will demoan anyone who sells pressed comics. It's going to happen and there nothing you can do. If you're comfortable with the practice then the criticism shouldn't hurt...if not then I can see where you'd have a problem...

 

Jim

 

It doesn't, never has. I've even always openly listened to the otherside of the debate.

 

I don't have a problem with critcism. I have a problem with disrespect.

 

...and believe me, it doesn't have to do with any inferiority complex.

[Dale Roberts]

Restoration does not return a book to its original state. It only brings the appearance of the original state. Restoration brings a change in mass(as with adding pieces or trimming), or a change in the chemical composition of the book(adding pieces or color, or chemical cleaning). Pressing does neither of these things. Pressing can, in fact, bring a book to (or nearer to) its original state.

Nope, this is what restoration is. Restoration is treatment intended to return a comic book to a known or assumed state by adding non-original material. Detected restoration is always disclosed on the CGC certification label. Non-additive procedures, such as pressing, dry cleaning and tape removal, are not classified as restoration by CGC. Trimmed books are given an apparent grade, and, in accordance with CGC's policy, are encapsulated with CGC's restored label. Learn more about comic book restoration. Pressing is simply a flattening process. Doesn't do anything else.

 

This is the kind of mis-information that gets repeated over and over until people actually start believing it's true. And it's really starting to me off.

 

"Using heat to reduce creases, wrinkles, or other planar distortions is not recommended by professional paper conservators. Many studies have shown that increased heat accelerates paper aging, especially papers made from groundwood pulp.

 

In controlled environments, conservators sometimes use humidification to flatten works. However, the method by which it occurs and on what kinds of paper are both very broad factors that are considered. Once any moisture is introduced into the paper sheet, any number of chemical reactions can begin. Many conservators elect to accept minor wrinkling and creasing as part of the artifact's history of use, rather then subject the work to what may begin or cause premature aging and discoloration."

 

-- Paper Conservator - Conservation Division - U.S. Library of Congress

 

 

 

This is from Classic Inc website...

 

We strive to make sure every technique is safe for the short and long term. Our pressing process does not involve disassembly, nor do we use abrasive materials like chemicals, or perform any work that would constitute restoration. No excessive pressure or heat is used in our work. You will not receive comics that appear to be "pancaked," or any other unfortunate side effect that usually occurs with improper pressing. The end result is undetectable, with each comic exhibiting a fresh, untouched feel and look.

 

 

[TupennyConan]

The love of the medium itself is now overshadowed by the love of the mediums condition.

 

The hobby is dying under its own weight.

 

No it's not...people that truly love the hobby are being vocal about what they are seeing in this hobby.

 

I love the hobby.

I think that pressing is not restoration.

 

(thumbs u

[hockey&comicsguy]

i can't. i'm disappointed in Tim.

 

 

no level of frustration justifies the type of comment he made, especially since it was not geared to a subset of "pressers" who do not disclose but rather the whole of those who engage in the practice.

 

 

i'm frustrated about a lot of things in the hobby, but using pejoratives to support my frustration would be juvenile.

 

 

 

 

[Dale Roberts]

The love of the medium itself is now overshadowed by the love of the mediums condition.

 

The hobby is dying under its own weight.

 

No it's not...people that truly love the hobby are being vocal about what they are seeing in this hobby.

 

I love the hobby.

I think that pressing is not restoration.

(thumbs u +1

[awe4one]

You are only going to see it the way you want to Jim, but your statement here is wrong. Even if there is some truth to it, do you really want to get in to a "they started it" pizzing match? As suspected, disclosure was never enough, and now the fact that pressing isn't going away has frustrated at least one person to the point of throwing out insults at a whole group of people. Arex started this thread based on one jerk's out of the blue comment. The same jerk has even come forward and said it again in this thread, and has stated that he will continue to be outspoken about it. You all should feel free to say anything negative about pressing "practice" you would like, but there is no reason to throw out blanket statements about pressers/pro-pressers - about people you don't even know. It's directly disrespectful, and yes, I'll take it personal.

 

Disclosure is enough. I've never said otheriwse, and apprecaite, those that do and bought from a number of them.

 

It's such a hot-button topic though, and I'm not sure the pressing crowd appreciates this, that some poeple will demoan anyone who sells pressed comics. It's going to happen and there nothing you can do. If you're comfortable with the practice then the criticism shouldn't hurt...if not then I can see where you'd have a problem...

 

Jim

 

It doesn't, never has. I've even always openly listened to the otherside of the debate.

 

I don't have a problem with critcism. I have a problem with disrespect.

 

I agree but then again you're engage in a practice that some in the collecting community fiercely dislikes. If you decide to go that way then you might as well expect some pushback.

 

If the feedback is personally directed at you then by all means kick their aZZZ, if not then take it as feedback and respond in kind coherently...

 

Jim

[MrBedrock]

The love of the medium itself is now overshadowed by the love of the mediums condition.

 

The hobby is dying under its own weight.

 

No it's not...people that truly love the hobby are being vocal about what they are seeing in this hobby.

 

I love the hobby.

I think that pressing is not restoration.

I love the hobby too.

And I would somewhat agree that pressing does not seem to be a form of restoration.

According to the Library of Congress...it actually appears to be a minor form of destruction.

According to the Library of Congress there is a possibility of destruction.

The Library of Congress also recommends that older documents not be touched as oils from fingerprints could possibly be destructive.

[Dale Roberts]

Restoration does not return a book to its original state. It only brings the appearance of the original state. Restoration brings a change in mass(as with adding pieces or trimming), or a change in the chemical composition of the book(adding pieces or color, or chemical cleaning). Pressing does neither of these things. Pressing can, in fact, bring a book to (or nearer to) its original state.

Nope, this is what restoration is. Restoration is treatment intended to return a comic book to a known or assumed state by adding non-original material. Detected restoration is always disclosed on the CGC certification label. Non-additive procedures, such as pressing, dry cleaning and tape removal, are not classified as restoration by CGC. Trimmed books are given an apparent grade, and, in accordance with CGC's policy, are encapsulated with CGC's restored label. Learn more about comic book restoration. Pressing is simply a flattening process. Doesn't do anything else.

 

This is the kind of mis-information that gets repeated over and over until people actually start believing it's true. And it's really starting to me off.

 

"Using heat to reduce creases, wrinkles, or other planar distortions is not recommended by professional paper conservators. Many studies have shown that increased heat accelerates paper aging, especially papers made from groundwood pulp.

 

In controlled environments, conservators sometimes use humidification to flatten works. However, the method by which it occurs and on what kinds of paper are both very broad factors that are considered. Once any moisture is introduced into the paper sheet, any number of chemical reactions can begin. Many conservators elect to accept minor wrinkling and creasing as part of the artifact's history of use, rather then subject the work to what may begin or cause premature aging and discoloration."

 

-- Paper Conservator - Conservation Division - U.S. Library of Congress

 

 

 

This is from Classic Inc website...

 

We strive to make sure every technique is safe for the short and long term. Our pressing process does not involve disassembly, nor do we use abrasive materials like chemicals, or perform any work that would constitute restoration. No excessive pressure or heat is used in our work. You will not receive comics that appear to be "pancaked," or any other unfortunate side effect that usually occurs with improper pressing. The end result is undetectable, with each comic exhibiting a fresh, untouched feel and look.

 

 

Beyond this, a comic which is pressed properly and stored under proper conservation conditions(climate control and archival materials) will last practically forever.

Comics were stored in the 1930s and 1940s and even up into the 1950s with no climate control, no mylar, no care at all, and sometimes subjected to conditions which would never happen today and yet, they survived.

[nearmint]

You are only going to see it the way you want to Jim, but your statement here is wrong. Even if there is some truth to it, do you really want to get in to a "they started it" pizzing match? As suspected, disclosure was never enough, and now the fact that pressing isn't going away has frustrated at least one person to the point of throwing out insults at a whole group of people. Arex started this thread based on one jerk's out of the blue comment. The same jerk has even come forward and said it again in this thread, and has stated that he will continue to be outspoken about it. You all should feel free to say anything negative about pressing "practice" you would like, but there is no reason to throw out blanket statements about pressers/pro-pressers - about people you don't even know. It's directly disrespectful, and yes, I'll take it personal.

 

Disclosure is enough. I've never said otheriwse, and apprecaite, those that do and bought from a number of them.

 

It's such a hot-button topic though, and I'm not sure the pressing crowd appreciates this, that some poeple will demoan anyone who sells pressed comics. It's going to happen and there nothing you can do. If you're comfortable with the practice then the criticism shouldn't hurt...if not then I can see where you'd have a problem...

 

Jim

 

It doesn't, never has. I've even always openly listened to the otherside of the debate.

 

I don't have a problem with critcism. I have a problem with disrespect.

 

I agree but then again you're engage in a practice that some in the collecting community fiercely dislikes. If you decide to go that way then you might as well expect some pushback.

 

If the feedback is personally directed at you then by all means kick their aZZZ, if not then take it as feedback and respond in kind coherently...

 

Jim

 

What's the proper coherent response to "you're a dirtbag"? Does Emily Post cover that?

[piper]

Should have known...another pressing thread...

[MrBedrock]

What's the proper coherent response to "you're a dirtbag"?

"Your momma's a dirtbag".

[Domo Arigato]

Restoration does not return a book to its original state. It only brings the appearance of the original state. Restoration brings a change in mass(as with adding pieces or trimming), or a change in the chemical composition of the book(adding pieces or color, or chemical cleaning). Pressing does neither of these things. Pressing can, in fact, bring a book to (or nearer to) its original state.

Nope, this is what restoration is. Restoration is treatment intended to return a comic book to a known or assumed state by adding non-original material. Detected restoration is always disclosed on the CGC certification label. Non-additive procedures, such as pressing, dry cleaning and tape removal, are not classified as restoration by CGC. Trimmed books are given an apparent grade, and, in accordance with CGC's policy, are encapsulated with CGC's restored label. Learn more about comic book restoration. Pressing is simply a flattening process. Doesn't do anything else.

 

This is the kind of mis-information that gets repeated over and over until people actually start believing it's true. And it's really starting to me off.

 

"Using heat to reduce creases, wrinkles, or other planar distortions is not recommended by professional paper conservators. Many studies have shown that increased heat accelerates paper aging, especially papers made from groundwood pulp.

 

In controlled environments, conservators sometimes use humidification to flatten works. However, the method by which it occurs and on what kinds of paper are both very broad factors that are considered. Once any moisture is introduced into the paper sheet, any number of chemical reactions can begin. Many conservators elect to accept minor wrinkling and creasing as part of the artifact's history of use, rather then subject the work to what may begin or cause premature aging and discoloration."

 

-- Paper Conservator - Conservation Division - U.S. Library of Congress

 

This is from Classic Inc website...

 

We strive to make sure every technique is safe for the short and long term. Our pressing process does not involve disassembly, nor do we use abrasive materials like chemicals, or perform any work that would constitute restoration. No excessive pressure or heat is used in our work. You will not receive comics that appear to be "pancaked," or any other unfortunate side effect that usually occurs with improper pressing. The end result is undetectable, with each comic exhibiting a fresh, untouched feel and look.

Yes...that is a quote from a website that presses comic books for profit. The fact is...they do use heat and pressure...and I believe they also use moisture (water) if needed. And simply because a book does not appear to be "pancaked"...does not mean that it hasn't suffered any damage.

 

The U.S. Library of Congress (someone who doesn't press comics for profit) clearly stated:

 

"Using heat to reduce creases, wrinkles, or other planar distortions is not recommended by professional paper conservators. Many studies have shown that increased heat accelerates paper aging, especially papers made from groundwood pulp. Once any moisture is introduced into the paper sheet, any number of chemical reactions can begin. Many conservators elect to accept minor wrinkling and creasing as part of the artifact's history of use, rather then subject the work to what may begin or cause premature aging and discoloration."

 

 

[KingOfRulers]

Should have known...another pressing thread...

 

You read my mind!

[seanfingh]

 

What's the proper coherent response to "you're a dirtbag"? Does Emily Post cover that?

 

A deep bend at the waist, followed by a curt "Yo Mama," is recommended by one noted etiquette expert.

[joeypost]

Was I being sarcastic or critical? I did not attack unprovoked. He called everyone that presses a dirtbag. I just let him know I heard him. To name call over the internet is cowardice. If you want to discuss this pull me aside at one of the conventions. It's that easy. I even invite Tim to do the same. I enjoy a good discussion. I'll even buy the first round of drinks.

 

But we aren't at a convention. We are talking on a Forum and debating the issue through words. If you can't do so coherently without one-on-one contact, and without a sarcastic comment, then I suggest you dismiss yourself from the discussiion.

 

I understand what you're saying, and I'll call you out on the drink next year, but it doesn't help with the discussion.

 

I've curtailed my attacks on the matter, and boy I have really been adament on the matter in the past, but I've realized discussion sans the attacks is a better medium. If you think a rational discussion is the venue for debating this subject to justify your pressing activities, then let's go. If not, continue the sarcasm/attacks...

 

Really, I'm starting to think the pressing crowd have a inferiority complex...

 

 

 

Jim

 

And you never seem to grow tired of talking out of both sides of your mouth. How do you ask me to curtail my attacks and then end your post with ;

 

Really, I'm starting to think the pressing crowd have a inferiority complex...

 

and my personal favorite

 

If you can't do so coherently without one-on-one contact, and without a sarcastic comment, then I suggest you dismiss yourself from the discussiion.

 

Ok...that's a personal opinion. I didn't call you an a-hole, dirtbag, no good greed monger or any adjective...yet you try to point out some comment that has some validity based on the disciussions we've experienced here.

 

Again, thanks for making my point vs. making yours. And if anyone wonders whers the attacks come from need look no further than come of the comments here...

 

Jim

 

What exactly is your point? My first comment or sarcastic remark to Tim was just to him, yet you felt the need to chime in. Out of everyone that presses books I have always been one of the most vocal about it, and that includes disclosing books that were pressed. Even with that some feel the need to lump everyone into the dirtbag category, with other that don't disclose reaching uber-dirtbag status.

 

 

[MrBedrock]

 

What's the proper coherent response to "you're a dirtbag"? Does Emily Post cover that?

 

A deep bend at the waist, followed by a curt "Yo Mama," is recommended by one noted etiquette expert.

[whisp]

The love of the medium itself is now overshadowed by the love of the mediums condition.

 

The hobby is dying under its own weight.

 

No it's not...people that truly love the hobby are being vocal about what they are seeing in this hobby.

 

I love the hobby.

I think that pressing is not restoration.

I love the hobby too.

And I would somewhat agree that pressing does not seem to be a form of restoration.

According to the Library of Congress...it actually appears to be a minor form of destruction.

According to the Library of Congress there is a possibility of destruction.

The Library of Congress also recommends that older documents not be touched as oils from fingerprints could possibly be destructive.

 

Damn our dirty fingers . We should all be wearing white gloves whenever we touch a comic book. Doesn't CGC where white gloves and look for fingerprints when grading a book?

 

Seriously though oil from our fingers can be damaging to collectibles such as stamps, coins, swords and other collectibles so most likely harmful in some way to comics.

[Dale Roberts]

Restoration does not return a book to its original state. It only brings the appearance of the original state. Restoration brings a change in mass(as with adding pieces or trimming), or a change in the chemical composition of the book(adding pieces or color, or chemical cleaning). Pressing does neither of these things. Pressing can, in fact, bring a book to (or nearer to) its original state.

Nope, this is what restoration is. Restoration is treatment intended to return a comic book to a known or assumed state by adding non-original material. Detected restoration is always disclosed on the CGC certification label. Non-additive procedures, such as pressing, dry cleaning and tape removal, are not classified as restoration by CGC. Trimmed books are given an apparent grade, and, in accordance with CGC's policy, are encapsulated with CGC's restored label. Learn more about comic book restoration. Pressing is simply a flattening process. Doesn't do anything else.

 

This is the kind of mis-information that gets repeated over and over until people actually start believing it's true. And it's really starting to me off.

 

"Using heat to reduce creases, wrinkles, or other planar distortions is not recommended by professional paper conservators. Many studies have shown that increased heat accelerates paper aging, especially papers made from groundwood pulp.

 

In controlled environments, conservators sometimes use humidification to flatten works. However, the method by which it occurs and on what kinds of paper are both very broad factors that are considered. Once any moisture is introduced into the paper sheet, any number of chemical reactions can begin. Many conservators elect to accept minor wrinkling and creasing as part of the artifact's history of use, rather then subject the work to what may begin or cause premature aging and discoloration."

 

-- Paper Conservator - Conservation Division - U.S. Library of Congress

 

This is from Classic Inc website...

 

We strive to make sure every technique is safe for the short and long term. Our pressing process does not involve disassembly, nor do we use abrasive materials like chemicals, or perform any work that would constitute restoration. No excessive pressure or heat is used in our work. You will not receive comics that appear to be "pancaked," or any other unfortunate side effect that usually occurs with improper pressing. The end result is undetectable, with each comic exhibiting a fresh, untouched feel and look.

Yes...that is a quote from a website that presses comic books for profit. The fact is...they do use heat and pressure...and I believe they also use moisture (water) if needed. And simply because a book does not appear to be "pancaked"...does not mean that it hasn't suffered any damage.

 

The U.S. Library of Congress (someone who doesn't press comics for profit) clearly stated:

 

"Using heat to reduce creases, wrinkles, or other planar distortions is not recommended by professional paper conservators. Many studies have shown that increased heat accelerates paper aging, especially papers made from groundwood pulp. Once any moisture is introduced into the paper sheet, any number of chemical reactions can begin. Many conservators elect to accept minor wrinkling and creasing as part of the artifact's history of use, rather then subject the work to what may begin or cause premature aging and discoloration."

 

 

I believe Classics Inc covers that......Try reading the entire post this time.