And people wonder why folks get a little bit peeved...

[Domo Arigato]

Pressing sarcasm...when all else fails.

 

I understand your point about the sarcasm, but seriously. When I was a teenager I drove a '76 Monte Carlo with leather interior. I would buy comics and keep them in the back, go and play a couple hours of basketball and come back and the interior of that sumperson_without_enough_empathy would be about 160 degrees. I know I am not the only one.

 

And what about books that were stored in the South, West or Midwest without climate control? A lot of books have had a lot of heat applied to them. Isn't it possible that the purported damage is being overstated?

Isn't it also possible that the lack of damage is being understated?

[nearmint]

Restoration does not return a book to its original state. It only brings the appearance of the original state. Restoration brings a change in mass(as with adding pieces or trimming), or a change in the chemical composition of the book(adding pieces or color, or chemical cleaning). Pressing does neither of these things. Pressing can, in fact, bring a book to (or nearer to) its original state.

Nope, this is what restoration is. Restoration is treatment intended to return a comic book to a known or assumed state by adding non-original material. Detected restoration is always disclosed on the CGC certification label. Non-additive procedures, such as pressing, dry cleaning and tape removal, are not classified as restoration by CGC. Trimmed books are given an apparent grade, and, in accordance with CGC's policy, are encapsulated with CGC's restored label. Learn more about comic book restoration. Pressing is simply a flattening process. Doesn't do anything else.

 

This is the kind of mis-information that gets repeated over and over until people actually start believing it's true. And it's really starting to me off.

 

"Using heat to reduce creases, wrinkles, or other planar distortions is not recommended by professional paper conservators. Many studies have shown that increased heat accelerates paper aging, especially papers made from groundwood pulp.

 

In controlled environments, conservators sometimes use humidification to flatten works. However, the method by which it occurs and on what kinds of paper are both very broad factors that are considered. Once any moisture is introduced into the paper sheet, any number of chemical reactions can begin. Many conservators elect to accept minor wrinkling and creasing as part of the artifact's history of use, rather then subject the work to what may begin or cause premature aging and discoloration."

 

-- Paper Conservator - Conservation Division - U.S. Library of Congress

 

This is from Classic Inc website...

 

We strive to make sure every technique is safe for the short and long term. Our pressing process does not involve disassembly, nor do we use abrasive materials like chemicals, or perform any work that would constitute restoration. No excessive pressure or heat is used in our work. You will not receive comics that appear to be "pancaked," or any other unfortunate side effect that usually occurs with improper pressing. The end result is undetectable, with each comic exhibiting a fresh, untouched feel and look.

Yes...that is a quote from a website that presses comic books for profit. The fact is...they do use heat and pressure...and I believe they also use moisture (water) if needed. And simply because a book does not appear to be "pancaked"...does not mean that it hasn't suffered any damage.

 

The U.S. Library of Congress (someone who doesn't press comics for profit) clearly stated:

 

"Using heat to reduce creases, wrinkles, or other planar distortions is not recommended by professional paper conservators. Many studies have shown that increased heat accelerates paper aging, especially papers made from groundwood pulp. Once any moisture is introduced into the paper sheet, any number of chemical reactions can begin. Many conservators elect to accept minor wrinkling and creasing as part of the artifact's history of use, rather then subject the work to what may begin or cause premature aging and discoloration."

 

I think increased heat would have to be defined, and compared to what, if any, heat is actually used for this argument to have any merit. Also, the paragraph you quote here talks about the perils of introducing moisture, but doesn't the very next paragraph in the full quote you posted earlier talk about conservators sometimes adding humidifiation to flatten works?

Yes they will introduce moisture...but only if it's necessary as you say to "flatten works". As FFB mentioned in that thread, the Decleration of Independence was stored for years rolled up in a tube. It would have to be pressed in order to lay flat for study and presentation. I don't think squeeking another .02 grade out of a comic book would qualify as their definition of necessary.

 

They said flatten works, not me. It's part of the quote that you posted. And where do they detail when they would and when they would not add moisture? You seem to believe you know when they would and wouldn't.

 

And I have to wonder why the LOC chose to end their response with a selection of links to websites that sell products in which to store comics, rather than links to the numerous studies that they mentioned.

 

Their response is very broad. Is introducing heat that's one degree higher than the ambient temperature damaging to the comic? Ten degrees? They're not specific.

 

What is the extent of the accelerated aging? As Joey said, is the book going to last 490 years now rather than 535?

 

Can we get any specifics here?

[seanfingh]

Pressing sarcasm...when all else fails.

 

I understand your point about the sarcasm, but seriously. When I was a teenager I drove a '76 Monte Carlo with leather interior. I would buy comics and keep them in the back, go and play a couple hours of basketball and come back and the interior of that sumperson_without_enough_empathy would be about 160 degrees. I know I am not the only one.

 

 

 

Wrong-o!!!

 

You are the only one. I did exactly the same thing, but it was in a 1972 Olds Delta 88.

 

No one I know would be caught dead in the 76 Monte Carlo, that year smelled of Elderberries, and it's interior as made of hamster.

 

 

Everyone knows that Idi Amin drove a '72 Delta Delta 88, and that it was voted the vehicle "Least Attractive to Females" of all time.

[seanfingh]

Pressing sarcasm...when all else fails.

 

I understand your point about the sarcasm, but seriously. When I was a teenager I drove a '76 Monte Carlo with leather interior. I would buy comics and keep them in the back, go and play a couple hours of basketball and come back and the interior of that sumperson_without_enough_empathy would be about 160 degrees. I know I am not the only one.

 

And what about books that were stored in the South, West or Midwest without climate control? A lot of books have had a lot of heat applied to them. Isn't it possible that the purported damage is being overstated?

Isn't also true that the lack of damage is being understated?

 

I don't know, but I've never had a comic disintegrate in my hands, or spontaneously combust.

[nearmint]

Can we just say those who love pressing have made money from it, and those that don't refuse to make money from it?

 

Not everyone that has books pressed sells them, so no, we can't say that.

[Paratrooper]

[Domo Arigato]

Pressing sarcasm...when all else fails.

 

I understand your point about the sarcasm, but seriously. When I was a teenager I drove a '76 Monte Carlo with leather interior. I would buy comics and keep them in the back, go and play a couple hours of basketball and come back and the interior of that sumperson_without_enough_empathy would be about 160 degrees. I know I am not the only one.

 

And what about books that were stored in the South, West or Midwest without climate control? A lot of books have had a lot of heat applied to them. Isn't it possible that the purported damage is being overstated?

Isn't also true that the lack of damage is being understated?

I don't know, but I've never had a comic disintegrate in my hands, or spontaneously combust.

I've never seen a trimmed or color-touched comic disintegrate in my hands or spontaneiously combust either. So what's your point?

[MrBedrock]

Pressing sarcasm...when all else fails.

 

And what about books that were stored in the South, West or Midwest without climate control? A lot of books have had a lot of heat applied to them. Isn't it possible that the purported damage is being overstated?

Isn't also true that the lack of damage is being understated?

I have always been a HUGE (sarcastic) proponent of full and total disclosure, not only of pressing, restoration and sales history, but also of chain of ownership, storage location, storage methods, handling history (number of reads, bag removal etc.), ownership medical records, financial issues involved in each transaction, travel history, and climate exposure for the life of each individual book.

 

The CGC label will have to be expanded to multiple pages. But that is a small price to pay for peace of mind.

[awe4one]

Pressing sarcasm...when all else fails.

 

And what about books that were stored in the South, West or Midwest without climate control? A lot of books have had a lot of heat applied to them. Isn't it possible that the purported damage is being overstated?

Isn't also true that the lack of damage is being understated?

I have always been a HUGE (sarcastic) proponent of full and total disclosure, not only of pressing, restoration and sales history, but also of chain of ownership, storage location, storage methods, handling history (number of reads, bag removal etc.), ownership medical records, financial issues involved in each transaction, travel history, and climate exposure for the life of each individual book.

 

The CGC label will have to be expanded to multiple pages. But that is a small price to pay for peace of mind.

 

I don't think anyone was ever asking for that...

 

Jim

[seanfingh]

Pressing sarcasm...when all else fails.

 

I understand your point about the sarcasm, but seriously. When I was a teenager I drove a '76 Monte Carlo with leather interior. I would buy comics and keep them in the back, go and play a couple hours of basketball and come back and the interior of that sumperson_without_enough_empathy would be about 160 degrees. I know I am not the only one.

 

And what about books that were stored in the South, West or Midwest without climate control? A lot of books have had a lot of heat applied to them. Isn't it possible that the purported damage is being overstated?

Isn't also true that the lack of damage is being understated?

I don't know, but I've never had a comic disintegrate in my hands, or spontaneously combust.

I've never seen a trimmed or color-touched comic disintegrate in my hands or spontaneiously combust either. So what's your point?

 

There we go. Now I've got it. Your argument does not really have anything to do with damage to the book, but just that pressing be considered resto like trimming (which is actually destructive, not restorative) or color touch.

 

Darn, and here I thought we were actually talking about potential damage to the books. That's too bad.

[Dale Roberts]

Pressing sarcasm...when all else fails.

 

And what about books that were stored in the South, West or Midwest without climate control? A lot of books have had a lot of heat applied to them. Isn't it possible that the purported damage is being overstated?

Isn't also true that the lack of damage is being understated?

I have always been a HUGE NERD(sarcastic) proponent of full and total disclosure, not only of pressing, restoration and sales history, but also of chain of ownership, storage location, storage methods, handling history (number of reads, bag removal etc.), ownership medical records, financial issues involved in each transaction, travel history, and climate exposure for the life of each individual book.

 

The CGC label will have to be expanded to multiple pages. But that is a small price to pay for peace of mind.

 

fixed that for you

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Cr@p! I just wasted my lunch hour reading another f'n Pressing thread.

[hockey&comicsguy]

Can we just say those who love pressing have made money from it, and those that don't refuse to make money from it?

 

How many ways are there to say no!

 

I just had joeypost press a book for me. It's the first book I have ever had pressed. It's for my personal collection. It has cost me money to have this done. I haven't made any money from doing so. There's no guarantee I will ever make more money than I have into it by having had it pressed.

 

I like pressing because it helped this book look better to me. Has nothing to do with making money.

 

Your statement is about as naive a statement I have seen in some time. Congrats!

[nearmint]

Pressing sarcasm...when all else fails.

 

And what about books that were stored in the South, West or Midwest without climate control? A lot of books have had a lot of heat applied to them. Isn't it possible that the purported damage is being overstated?

Isn't also true that the lack of damage is being understated?

I have always been a HUGE (sarcastic) proponent of full and total disclosure, not only of pressing, restoration and sales history, but also of chain of ownership, storage location, storage methods, handling history (number of reads, bag removal etc.), ownership medical records, financial issues involved in each transaction, travel history, and climate exposure for the life of each individual book.

 

The CGC label will have to be expanded to multiple pages. But that is a small price to pay for peace of mind.

 

You forgot time spent in the hands of someone sitting on the crapper.

[MrBedrock]

I don't think anyone was ever asking for that...

 

Jim

You don't miss a thing, do you?

[nearmint]

Can we just say those who love pressing have made money from it, and those that don't refuse to make money from it?

 

How many ways are there to say no!

 

I just had joeypost press a book for me. It's the first book I have ever had pressed. It's for my personal collection. It has cost me money to have this done. I haven't made any money from doing so. There's no guarantee I will ever make more money than I have into it by having had it pressed.

 

I like pressing because it helped this book look better to me. Has nothing to do with making money.

 

Your statement is about as naive a statement I have seen in some time. Congrats!

 

In fact, you've lost money by pressing the book.

[MrBedrock]

Pressing sarcasm...when all else fails.

 

And what about books that were stored in the South, West or Midwest without climate control? A lot of books have had a lot of heat applied to them. Isn't it possible that the purported damage is being overstated?

Isn't also true that the lack of damage is being understated?

I have always been a HUGE (sarcastic) proponent of full and total disclosure, not only of pressing, restoration and sales history, but also of chain of ownership, storage location, storage methods, handling history (number of reads, bag removal etc.), ownership medical records, financial issues involved in each transaction, travel history, and climate exposure for the life of each individual book.

 

The CGC label will have to be expanded to multiple pages. But that is a small price to pay for peace of mind.

 

You forgot time spent in the hands of someone sitting on the crapper.

That should be covered in handling history.

[towards2112]

Restoration does not return a book to its original state. It only brings the appearance of the original state. Restoration brings a change in mass(as with adding pieces or trimming), or a change in the chemical composition of the book(adding pieces or color, or chemical cleaning). Pressing does neither of these things. Pressing can, in fact, bring a book to (or nearer to) its original state.

Nope, this is what restoration is. Restoration is treatment intended to return a comic book to a known or assumed state by adding non-original material. Detected restoration is always disclosed on the CGC certification label. Non-additive procedures, such as pressing, dry cleaning and tape removal, are not classified as restoration by CGC. Trimmed books are given an apparent grade, and, in accordance with CGC's policy, are encapsulated with CGC's restored label. Learn more about comic book restoration. Pressing is simply a flattening process. Doesn't do anything else.

 

This is the kind of mis-information that gets repeated over and over until people actually start believing it's true. And it's really starting to me off.

 

"Using heat to reduce creases, wrinkles, or other planar distortions is not recommended by professional paper conservators. Many studies have shown that increased heat accelerates paper aging, especially papers made from groundwood pulp.

 

In controlled environments, conservators sometimes use humidification to flatten works. However, the method by which it occurs and on what kinds of paper are both very broad factors that are considered. Once any moisture is introduced into the paper sheet, any number of chemical reactions can begin. Many conservators elect to accept minor wrinkling and creasing as part of the artifact's history of use, rather then subject the work to what may begin or cause premature aging and discoloration."

 

-- Paper Conservator - Conservation Division - U.S. Library of Congress

 

This is from Classic Inc website...

 

We strive to make sure every technique is safe for the short and long term. Our pressing process does not involve disassembly, nor do we use abrasive materials like chemicals, or perform any work that would constitute restoration. No excessive pressure or heat is used in our work. You will not receive comics that appear to be "pancaked," or any other unfortunate side effect that usually occurs with improper pressing. The end result is undetectable, with each comic exhibiting a fresh, untouched feel and look.

Yes...that is a quote from a website that presses comic books for profit. The fact is...they do use heat and pressure...and I believe they also use moisture (water) if needed. And simply because a book does not appear to be "pancaked"...does not mean that it hasn't suffered any damage.

 

The U.S. Library of Congress (someone who doesn't press comics for profit) clearly stated:

 

"Using heat to reduce creases, wrinkles, or other planar distortions is not recommended by professional paper conservators. Many studies have shown that increased heat accelerates paper aging, especially papers made from groundwood pulp. Once any moisture is introduced into the paper sheet, any number of chemical reactions can begin. Many conservators elect to accept minor wrinkling and creasing as part of the artifact's history of use, rather then subject the work to what may begin or cause premature aging and discoloration."

 

I think increased heat would have to be defined, and compared to what, if any, heat is actually used for this argument to have any merit. Also, the paragraph you quote here talks about the perils of introducing moisture, but doesn't the very next paragraph in the full quote you posted earlier talk about conservators sometimes adding humidifiation to flatten works?

Yes they will introduce moisture...but only if it's necessary as you say to "flatten works". As FFB mentioned in that thread, the Decleration of Independence was stored for years rolled up in a tube. It would have to be pressed in order to lay flat for study and presentation. I don't think squeeking another .02 grade out of a comic book would qualify as their definition of necessary.

 

They said flatten works, not me. It's part of the quote that you posted. And where do they detail when they would and when they would not add moisture? You seem to believe you know when they would and wouldn't.

 

And I have to wonder why the LOC chose to end their response with a selection of links to websites that sell products in which to store comics, rather than links to the numerous studies that they mentioned.

 

Their response is very broad. Is introducing heat that's one degree higher than the ambient temperature damaging to the comic? Ten degrees? They're not specific.

 

What is the extent of the accelerated aging? As Joey said, is the book going to last 490 years now rather than 535?

 

Can we get any specifics here?

 

Does OCD ever enter into any pressing thread ?? I'd love to be 21 years old

again, and find the perfect virgin to wife, and since Evans is busy, I guess

my dream of an untainted virgin has been tarnished by other men looking

at all the women in the world, well mostly.

[GACollectibles]

 

Senseless post in a pressing thread, mods notified.

 

Oh, wait....

[MrBedrock]

Does OCD ever enter into any pressing thread ?? I'd love to be 21 years old

again, and find the perfect virgin to wife, and since Evans is busy, I guess

my dream of an untainted virgin has been tarnished by other men looking

at all the women in the world, well mostly.

Not sure what you are asking there, Phil.

But just so you know, I haven't been 21 for a very long time.