Why do Anti-Pressers HATE pressing?

[greggy]

Greggy could benefit from a press.

You would benefit from a physical beat down.

[MustEatBrains]

Wise man says: You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.

 

[MetalPSI]

Wise man says: You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.

 

David Carradine is smiling

[trmoore54]

Manipulation to improve the look of a book is restoration period. Stacking books is not manipulation because it is a natural action of storing comics used for decades. Stacking does not introduce water into the paper fibers which chemically bond and stick around for years doing their dirty work.

 

Steam-rolled!

[COI]

Well if my car has a minor dent, in SOME cases I can knock out the dent. Haven't changed the parts, haven't even repainted. Does it count as restored? Can you always tell there was even a dent there before?

 

Has the car benefited? I would say yes. Has the owner also benefited? I would also say yes.

 

Is this so different then pressing a comic?

 

That is the exact analogy I used. Coming from the automotive industry (high end European cars like Porsche, Mercedes, Rolls, Jaguar, Lotus etc) it is industry norm to press out a dent without repainting the entire fender AND there is zero disclosure.

 

And even if there was, because it's invisible I don't think anyone cares.

 

Yeah, perfect analogy, except that when you press out that ding in a car, you do so to preserve its value, not to then flip that car for 10 times what you paid. And taking care of structural damage in a vehicle, no matter how minor, is a preventative step in keeping it functional for longer, as even a tiny dent or ding can lead to greater long-term damage.

 

Nope. It's all cosmetic and the analogy fits perfectly as it's all about increasing value through cosmetic adjustment. Sorry.

 

I still love you.

 

You worked with cars; dents can lead to rust, or greater damage, even if it's rare. Regardless, it's not about increasing value, it's about maintaining value. If you're car is worth $XXXXX and you dent it,fixing the dent at best maintains that value, but it doesn't increase it.

 

I love you too.

[VintageComics]

Greggy could benefit from a press.

You would benefit from a physical beat down.

 

Wait, are you a me or am I a you?

[COI]

Well if my car has a minor dent, in SOME cases I can knock out the dent. Haven't changed the parts, haven't even repainted. Does it count as restored? Can you always tell there was even a dent there before?

 

Has the car benefited? I would say yes. Has the owner also benefited? I would also say yes.

 

Is this so different then pressing a comic?

 

That is the exact analogy I used. Coming from the automotive industry (high end European cars like Porsche, Mercedes, Rolls, Jaguar, Lotus etc) it is industry norm to press out a dent without repainting the entire fender AND there is zero disclosure.

 

And even if there was, because it's invisible I don't think anyone cares.

 

Yeah, perfect analogy, except that when you press out that ding in a car, you do so to preserve its value, not to then flip that car for 10 times what you paid.

 

 

But the argument here is with the market and its absurd overvaluation of tiny differences in condition as represented by the numbers on the label, not with the analogy.

 

 

That's your argument, not the one underpinning Roy's analogy. I'm saying the analogy, on its own merit sucks, and even adding your point, the argument still sucks because the absurd overvaluation doesn't exist in the car market. You can't just discount the profit motive, as I highly doubt that Roy, who makes a living selling comics, would press books for their "benefit" without the profit motive inherent to the absurd overvaluation of uber high grades.

[COI]

Can I just say, I love the phrase "some books benefit from a press".

 

The book doesn't benefit, and the buyer of the book doesn't benefit. Yes, thanks for making the same object cost me 6x as much as it would have two weeks ago.

 

 

But that is your opinion, and not one shared by everybody.

 

I think a book benefits tremendously by not having a bend in it. How does the book actually benefit? Because that bend has a greater chance of being folded back into a crease, or caught on something, or any number of scenarios where the flaw could result in more damage by not being flat.

 

But, of course, the main benefit is to the aesthetic sensibilities of the person observing the book. It just looks better, and it is more pleasing to the eye.

 

The buyer benefits because he/she is getting a book that looks nicer. Yes, having to pay a monetary difference sucks, and I have long noted the ridiculousness of the market with respect to tiny differences in condition. But if the book looks nicer, it IS nicer, and for many people, that's really what it's all about.

 

I press my own books, books that I want to keep forever, and don't want to sell. I have hundreds of slabs that are mine, that remain in my collection, for as long as I have my collection, because they look nice. Bends, creases, dents....these things annoy me. So, if I can make them not be....regardless of the monetary concerns...I will do that, because it makes me happy about my books. Having books with dents, bends, and dings on them makes me unhappy. Having the ability to remove those dents, bends, and dings makes me INCREDIBLY happy. It thrills me to no end.

 

And isn't that really what collecting is all about...?

 

 

 

My problem with this is, the buyer could themselves have gotten the book pressed and saved that dough. And yes, I understand the label-chasing, paying for convenience, etc, but paying 10x for the convenience further illustrates how crazy the high end of this market is. Which is actually the point you've made many times, so at the root of all of this we agree more than we disagree.

[MustEatBrains]

FOR COI

[COI]

FOR COI

 

Meaning what? I should be moderated? I might be moderated? I'm breaking rules? Explain.

[VintageComics]

That's your argument, not the one underpinning Roy's analogy. I'm saying the analogy, on its own merit sucks, and even adding your point, the argument still sucks because the absurd overvaluation doesn't exist in the car market. You can't just discount the profit motive, as I highly doubt that Roy, who makes a living selling comics, would press books for their "benefit" without the profit motive inherent to the absurd overvaluation of uber high grades.

 

The analogy still holds.

 

For a low or a mid-grade book (like a decent Toyota Camry) removing the dent may not increase the value of the car, but it would make it more appealing for pride of ownership.

 

Now if you have a low to mid-grade Vintage Ferrari, then removing a few dents would possibly even increase the value of the automobile.

 

And the dent analogy holds true because if the paint is chipped or damaged (the way paper fibers might be damage in a hard crease) then even the dent removal will not fix that defect in much the same way that a pressed crease will not eliminate the crease. Only minimize it.

 

And the repair would be apparent because of the 'tell signs'

 

But on the right subject, it would be totally invisible with no tells, short of a molecular analysis.

 

Now, take a very high end car. Like a Shelby Cobra or a 1984 Ferrari GTO (which might be worth several million dollars) and one small dent will likely significantly affect the appeal and value of the car. So instead of replacing the fender, you 'invisibly' press it out.

 

Voila, your car might be worth $500K more (or whatever - I have no idea).

 

So, much like comics there are many ways to use the technique and they add different forms of value, depending on the subject the dent removal is applied to and what the owner is trying to achieve.

 

My main point being, there is no disclosure mechanism in the automotive industry that I know of regardless of dollar values - unless you are replacing parts.

 

 

[COI]

For the noobs: before you start humping buttons, I'm friends with Roy and RMA, so no one's fighting here. Put on your big-boy pants.

[jsilverjanet]

Greggy could benefit from a press.

You would benefit from a physical beat down.

 

And anger management apparently. Mods notified.

 

[MustEatBrains]

FOR COI

 

Meaning what? I should be moderated? I might be moderated? I'm breaking rules? Explain.

 

 

None of the above.. I was focusing on the first part "A practical guide to making friends"...

 

Chillax.

[COI]

That's your argument, not the one underpinning Roy's analogy. I'm saying the analogy, on its own merit sucks, and even adding your point, the argument still sucks because the absurd overvaluation doesn't exist in the car market. You can't just discount the profit motive, as I highly doubt that Roy, who makes a living selling comics, would press books for their "benefit" without the profit motive inherent to the absurd overvaluation of uber high grades.

 

The analogy still holds.

 

For a low or a mid-grade book (like a decent Toyota Camry) removing the dent may not increase the value of the car, but it would make it more appealing for pride over ownership.

 

Now if you have a low to mid-grade Vintage Ferrari, then removing a few dents would possibly even increase the value of the automobile.

 

And the dent analogy holds true because if the paint is chipped or damaged (the way paper fibers might be damage in a hard crease) then even the dent removal will not fix that defect in much the same way that a pressed crease will not eliminate the crease. Only minimize it.

 

And the repair would be apparent because of the 'tell signs'

 

But on the right subject, it would be totally invisible with no tells, short of a molecular analysis.

 

Now, take a very high end car. Like a Shelby Cobra or a 1984 Ferrari GTO (which might be worth several million dollars) and one small dent will likely significantly affect the appeal and value of the car. So instead of replacing the fender, you 'invisibly' press it out.

 

Voila, your car might be worth $500K more (or whatever - I have no idea).

 

So, much like comics there are many ways to use the technique and they add different forms of value, depending on the subject the dent removal is applied to and what the owner is trying to achieve.

 

My main point being, there is no disclosure mechanism in the automotive industry that I know of regardless of dollar values - unless you are replacing parts.

 

 

Okay, you win, it's exactly the same thing.

 

I'm gonna start buying cars with dents and flipping them.

[VintageComics]

For the noobs: before you start humping buttons, I'm friends with Roy and RMA, so no one's fighting here. Put on your big-boy pants.

 

Be careufl, greggy and jsilverjanet might even put on the same pair. At the same time.

[VintageComics]

Okay, you win

 

 

[jsilverjanet]

For the noobs: before you start humping buttons, I'm friends with Roy and RMA, so no one's fighting here. Put on your big-boy pants.

 

Be careufl, greggy and jsilverjanet might even put on the same pair. At the same time.

 

[greggy]

For the noobs: before you start humping buttons, I'm friends with Roy and RMA, so no one's fighting here. Put on your big-boy pants.

 

Be careufl, greggy and jsilverjanet might even put on the same pair. At the same time.

 

[COI]

FOR COI

 

Meaning what? I should be moderated? I might be moderated? I'm breaking rules? Explain.

 

 

None of the above.. I was focusing on the first part "A practical guide to making friends"...

 

Chillax.

 

I'm relaxed. I just can't read your mind.

 

I'm good on the friends count. I'm actually looking to lose a few.