Mound City Comic Collection Details on original owner revealed

[MoundCityAuctions]

Not to defend our man Chuck, but anyone interested should take a look at his account of the Edgar Church find on his web site. If you buy that version, it was not the monumental ripoff that it seems. I do remember there being a lot of resentment over it from the get go, though. Partly, I think because of the counterculture vibe that comic collecting had in those days, which Chuck clearly played off of when he started Mile High. A score of that magnitude didn't sit well with a fair number of people.

 

I never understood the resentment towards Chuck on this issue? Edgar's family was going to trash all this stuff so thank godness Chuck was lucky enough to stumble upon the greatest collection that ever existed.

From what I understand many issues were trashed before he got there.

 

I'll ask Tina when she wakes up, but I don't think so. The house was crammed full of Comics, sports magazines (some real old) mad magazines (we will put them in the next auction, if you guys would like the them (I had some the mad slabbed) and tons of porn. We told the owner the porn had a lot of value and put it in a closet for him and pushed a freezer in front of it. Not a judgement call but we don't sell porn.

 

I set the auction up and we didn't throw out any comics. The guy who hired us listened (not all sellers do) and I don't think he threw out anything.

[VintageComics]

Rob the post about trashing comics wasin reference to Chuck Rozanski, who found the Edgar Church pedigree, not to you guys.

 

 

[MoundCityAuctions]

Not to defend our man Chuck, but anyone interested should take a look at his account of the Edgar Church find on his web site. If you buy that version, it was not the monumental ripoff that it seems. I do remember there being a lot of resentment over it from the get go, though. Partly, I think because of the counterculture vibe that comic collecting had in those days, which Chuck clearly played off of when he started Mile High. A score of that magnitude didn't sit well with a fair number of people.

 

I never understood the resentment towards Chuck on this issue? Edgar's family was going to trash all this stuff so thank godness Chuck was lucky enough to stumble upon the greatest collection that ever existed.

 

Yeah, but Chuck knew what he had and that he had taken the Church family to the cleaners -- even if they didnt know it, it was no excuse.

 

That's why I will dub Rob the ANTI-CHUCK...he could have picked up the whole thing for $5K and yielded a HUGE profit...but instead had the family take part in the mega-profits. BRAVO!

We also had an offer from HA to sell the books there and comic link. It was very hard to turn them down. I could have called part of the auction at HA but from what is sounds on the board I might do things a wee bit different then them.

Question, could you guys understand what I was saying? Birdette?, John?, Matt?

[BlowUpTheMoon]

Pictures anyone?

 

That's creepy, dude.

[ckp1680]

why $600k? i thought the books hit $1mm. was that w/ BP? did mound take that big a piece?

 

That's entirely an educated guess on my part. I was curious how much estate auction houses typically take before this auction ever began, so I browsed maybe a half-dozen web sites and found figures that ranged from 20% to 40%. I suppose I was assuming that Mound City would be getting around 25% + the extra 5% to 15% juice from the bidders. I have no actual idea what their cut is.

 

I think the $1 million was before the buyer's premium. A 25 percent seller's premium seems high. With a premium of that size, the auctioneer would receive well north of $300,000 before expenses. Whether that's reasonable, I don't know. Whatever the consignor ends up netting, it's sure going to beat $5,000.

 

25% sellers premium is not bad for not really doing anything at all.

Not really doing anything at all????? You must be joking. We have been working like sled dogs for months on this auction.

 

He was talking about the sellers, that paying you guys was a good deal for them since you did all the work

[MoundCityAuctions]

Don't understand that at all. They DID a helluva lot if you ask me. They got the books graded, they advertised the hell out of it, they auctioned it off, they procured the site, they answered questions, and they took care of the packaging, bookkeeping and numerous other things. I'd say they earned their money.

 

Agreed. They worked their arse off on this auction and definately earned their commission.

 

Flying down to Florida and meeting with CGC would not be cheap. I'm sure the two versions of bidding softwear took a cut. Sorting, grading, bagging and boarding all takes time and $$. Promoting the auction and answering questions on bulletin boards has got to be one of the most dangerous jobs in the world.

 

These guys did a great job and raised a ton of $$ for the owners of these books. They also were surprisingly honest.

 

 

Thank you, and by the way we drove from St. Louis to Sarasota, twice on the deal. Don't get me wrong I have a love for the beach that runs deep. You don't fly with 3000 comic books. I carried a 9mm pistol concealed the whole way (yes i have a license, and yes i am a good shot, I fired expert in the Army). We also "helped" West at CGC go through every book. Now I know you guys love this stuff, but this was not my idea of a day at the beach. I was sitting there writing down OOAW #XX 9.6 on the prescreen sheets, Tina was looken up on GPA and West was doing that book flipping head turning squinty eye thing you guys do for 2 or 3 weeks (OK it was only 2 or 3 days but it seemed like weeks to me). All the time my Missouri mind was going beach, beach, beach, white sand, day off, fishing, beach!!!!!

 

 

[qualitycomix]

Don't understand that at all. They DID a helluva lot if you ask me. They got the books graded, they advertised the hell out of it, they auctioned it off, they procured the site, they answered questions, and they took care of the packaging, bookkeeping and numerous other things. I'd say they earned their money.

 

Agreed. They worked their arse off on this auction and definately earned their commission.

 

Flying down to Florida and meeting with CGC would not be cheap. I'm sure the two versions of bidding softwear took a cut. Sorting, grading, bagging and boarding all takes time and $$. Promoting the auction and answering questions on bulletin boards has got to be one of the most dangerous jobs in the world.

 

These guys did a great job and raised a ton of $$ for the owners of these books. They also were surprisingly honest.

 

 

Thank you, and by the way we drove from St. Louis to Sarasota, twice on the deal. Don't get me wrong I have a love for the beach that runs deep. You don't fly with 3000 comic books. I carried a 9mm pistol concealed the whole way (yes i have a license, and yes i am a good shot, I fired expert in the Army). We also "helped" West at CGC go through every book. Now I know you guys love this stuff, but this was not my idea of a day at the beach. I was sitting there writing down OOAW #XX 9.6 on the prescreen sheets, Tina was looken up on GPA and West was doing that book flipping head turning squinty eye thing you guys do for 2 or 3 weeks (OK it was only 2 or 3 days but it seemed like weeks to me). All the time my Missouri mind was going beach, beach, beach, white sand, day off, fishing, beach!!!!!

 

 

[sillyme-migration]

I think you guys did a great job and kudos for being so ethical about the whole thing. Good for you. Someone mentioned you have an auction coming up in St Gen I think, date and what sort of items would be wonderful to know. I don't collect comics but I do collect vintage jewelry, purses, clothes etc. And other vintage and antique items. I'm not really in the market for furniture so much but I am currently searching for a mid-century danish modern bedroom set (one with very clean lines.) By the way the necklace I was wearing at the auction is a difficult to find vintage piece. I'm pretty sure a gorgeous and unique turquoise bracelet I have I bought at one of your auctions, I think the auction was in Festus. If you have any vintage kitchen stuff I know someone who specialize in that sort of thing. Thanks and please let me know.

[DiceX]

Don't understand that at all. They DID a helluva lot if you ask me. They got the books graded, they advertised the hell out of it, they auctioned it off, they procured the site, they answered questions, and they took care of the packaging, bookkeeping and numerous other things. I'd say they earned their money.

 

Agreed. They worked their arse off on this auction and definately earned their commission.

 

Flying down to Florida and meeting with CGC would not be cheap. I'm sure the two versions of bidding softwear took a cut. Sorting, grading, bagging and boarding all takes time and $$. Promoting the auction and answering questions on bulletin boards has got to be one of the most dangerous jobs in the world.

 

These guys did a great job and raised a ton of $$ for the owners of these books. They also were surprisingly honest.

 

 

Thank you, and by the way we drove from St. Louis to Sarasota, twice on the deal. Don't get me wrong I have a love for the beach that runs deep. You don't fly with 3000 comic books. I carried a 9mm pistol concealed the whole way (yes i have a license, and yes i am a good shot, I fired expert in the Army). We also "helped" West at CGC go through every book. Now I know you guys love this stuff, but this was not my idea of a day at the beach. I was sitting there writing down OOAW #XX 9.6 on the prescreen sheets, Tina was looken up on GPA and West was doing that book flipping head turning squinty eye thing you guys do for 2 or 3 weeks (OK it was only 2 or 3 days but it seemed like weeks to me). All the time my Missouri mind was going beach, beach, beach, white sand, day off, fishing, beach!!!!!

 

 

 

Yeah. You go squinty eye when you look at them, Brent.

 

 

[TheShadowKnows]

Pictures anyone?

 

That's creepy, dude.

Shes 22 and it was said tongue in cheek.

[DiceX]

I agree. The fact that Chuck saved them from being thrown out, and had the foresight to keep records and allow the provenance and lineage to be traceable. He gets mess over this all the time.

 

Some people act like if you make a dollar on a book, you owe a cut to everyone that owned it before you because they helped to preserve it in the condition it's in. It just defies logical thinking.

If you buy something for a price agreed by both parties, the seller's ride on the boat is over. If it was bought for a buck and sold immediately for a million dollars, oh well.

 

It's called ethics and morals. Chuck was a pro and immediately knew that he was looking at $100K minimum in books, and he was looking at them only while the Churches were dealing with the sizable challenge of liquidating an estate. This was a time before there was a general public knowledge comics were worth anything at all--the fleecing of the Churches is one of those events that brought the kind of national attention in the media that eventually led to it becoming a part of more common public knowledge. The fact that "you know you've got $100K in books here, maybe even a million or more" never came out of his mouth is the lack of moral fiber and ethics that makes him deserving of derision, and it's the reason the Churches later sued him, which obviously was the wrong move since what Chuck did wasn't criminal or explicitly deceptive. Mound City sure saw the ethical dilemma as an auctioneer charged with trying to get his client the most money for their stuff, and the moral dilemma as a fellow human being preferring not to screw a family trying to deal with a dead relative.

 

In accredited professions, can't you get unacreditted for this kind of ethical breach? Lawyers, doctors, etc? Yea, doesn't take much training to be a comic book dealer, but that doesn't mean we can't all call Chuck out on his lack of character. I'd give him a few points back since Chuck was young and poor at the time if he hadn't wrote those "Tales from the Database" articles recently which clearly showed he still has no intention of manning up to his breach of ethical and moral value in not advising the Churches as to the scope of the value of Edgar's books. He portrayed the Churches as uncaring of Edgar's prized possessions and unappreciative of the fineness of said posessions. I find it likely that all that is true, but it doesn't forgive how he screwed them, and it displays an utter lack of class given that these people had just lost a relative.

 

Back when this collection was uncovered, it was the early days of the hobby, and this collection was unprecedented. Chuck knew the collection was special. However at the time Chuck was a 125 pound teenage hippy kid and, back then, $2K would buy a HOUSE.

 

It took him a while before the idea caught on of a comic pedigree. Nothing like this had ever existed. Chuck did it.

 

The people told him what the price was and he paid it. They were throwing them out if he didn't buy them. This was not today where people regularly pay stupid money for them. This was a gamble for him and it paid off.

 

Let's put it in perspective. Think about it like this...Today, you run across someone with 10,000 mint condition copies of Woman's Day magazine. You have a passion for Woman's Day, and have friends that collect them and sometimes pay a hundred or even a thousand dollars for a few select GRAIL issues. The people are about to throw them out, and you ask if they will sell them to you. You ask them the price, and they quote you $250,000 for the lot, which just happened to average out to cover price of every book. You are busting your balls to stay alive and living paycheck to paycheck, but manage to convince a few of your friends to loan you enough cash to buy them.

 

Chuck was lucky he found them, and a pioneer in the hobby. Don't get me wrong, I think Chuck is absolutely nuts, overly dramatic, and a huckster, but he went in WAY over his head on the deal back in the day. But he did have the balls to do it.

 

 

[TheWatcher]

Not to defend our man Chuck, but anyone interested should take a look at his account of the Edgar Church find on his web site. If you buy that version, it was not the monumental ripoff that it seems. I do remember there being a lot of resentment over it from the get go, though. Partly, I think because of the counterculture vibe that comic collecting had in those days, which Chuck clearly played off of when he started Mile High. A score of that magnitude didn't sit well with a fair number of people.

 

I never understood the resentment towards Chuck on this issue? Edgar's family was going to trash all this stuff so thank godness Chuck was lucky enough to stumble upon the greatest collection that ever existed.

 

They didn't exactly fly off the shelves either.It took him years to sell them all. A WHOLE lot of that stuff was considered unsellable junk back in the 70's. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

And a lot of big time collectors didn't believe the books were as nice as Chuck was stating. They thought it was all hype until word starting getting back from those that bought some books. Even with that, it took a few years to unload the collection. Anderson didn't buy the Action books until the early 80's (82?) and Verzyl got the Timely run around the same time. Plus, at multiples of guide, selling runs like Buzzy wasn't the easiest thing in the world, like Jim said.

[fantastic_four]

It took him a while before the idea caught on of a comic pedigree. Nothing like this had ever existed. Chuck did it.

 

The people told him what the price was and he paid it. They were throwing them out if he didn't buy them. This was not today where people regularly pay stupid money for them. This was a gamble for him and it paid off.

 

Your Woman's Day metaphor confounds me. I don't know much about the Woman's Day back issue market, but I'm guessing it's nowhere near as big as of 2009 as comics were even in 1977. Correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

Chuck absolutely did innovate the hobby, but that doesn't lessen the fact that he screwed the Churches over in doing it. And it's utter wildly_fanciful_statement to say that this collection was a gamble at the price he paid, or that he ever really believed it was a gamble at that price. Yes, it stretched his own personal finances, no doubt, so it was an absolutely ballsy thing for a guy as young and poor as he was to do. But he knew it was worth far, far more than he was paying, FAR more. Laughably, OMG WTF I'm the luckiest-sumperson_without_enough_empathy-I-know-my-lifes-about-to-change kinda lucky. Which is why he was able to secure loans from other collectors just by negotiating quite specifically that they'd get a tiny, TINY slice of the overall collection, albeit an quite primo tiny slice.

 

In summary, Church's wife quotes Chuck a price. He jumps on it and declines to divulge the actual value. Mound City gets a similar offer this year, and decides to inform the family that the books are worth more. You can't see both the ethical and moral superiority in Rob's actions and why people have a problem with Chuck doing the opposite? It would be even easier to forgive Rob in 2009 than Chuck in 1977 because there's a LOT more common knowledge out there that the Mound City original owners could have drawn from to know the books were worth more than $5K...yet Rob still knew the high road and took it. And still made out like a bandit.

[DiceX]

It took him a while before the idea caught on of a comic pedigree. Nothing like this had ever existed. Chuck did it.

 

The people told him what the price was and he paid it. They were throwing them out if he didn't buy them. This was not today where people regularly pay stupid money for them. This was a gamble for him and it paid off.

 

Your Woman's Day metaphor confounds me. I don't know much about the Woman's Day back issue market, but I'm guessing it's nowhere near as big as of 2009 as comics were even in 1977. Correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

Chuck absolutely did innovate the hobby, but that doesn't lessen the fact that he screwed the Churches over in doing it. And it's utter wildly_fanciful_statement to say that this collection was a gamble at the price he paid, or that he ever really believed it was a gamble at that price. Yes, it stretched his own personal finances, no doubt, so it was an absolutely ballsy thing for a guy as young and poor as he was to do. But he knew it was worth far, far more than he was paying, FAR more. Laughably, OMG WTF I'm the luckiest-sumperson_without_enough_empathy-I-know-my-lifes-about-to-change kinda lucky. Which is why he was able to secure loans from other collectors just by negotiating quite specifically that they'd get a tiny, TINY slice of the overall collection, albeit an quite primo tiny slice.

 

In summary, Church's wife quotes Chuck a price. He jumps on it and declines to divulge the actual value. Mound City gets a similar offer this year, and decides to inform the family that the books are worth more. You can't see both the ethical and moral superiority in Rob's actions and why people have a problem with Chuck doing the opposite? It would be even easier to forgive Rob in 2009 than Chuck in 1977 because there's a LOT more common knowledge out there that the Mound City original owners could have drawn from to know the books were worth more than $5K...yet Rob still knew the high road and took it. And still made out like a bandit.

 

The hobby is a little different today than it was in 1977.

Just a little.

 

Yes, I was being facetious with my example, but trying to get my point across.

 

And I do think the world of the people at Mound City for what they did. The whole lot of them are as good as gold, and I hope their company grows a thousand fold over the publicity they received with this.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

The hobby is a little different today than it was in 1977.

Just a little.

 

Not as different as you're implying. Guys like Overstreet and his peers had been buying books since the late 1950s with investment in mind. The viability of the comics market was very well-established by 1977, and Chuck already knew enough players in that market to secure his loans. He knew what he was doing.

[zzutak]

I first met Chuck and his then girlfriend Nanette at a small convention in Sacramento in early 1978. They had brought about half of the Church books with them. No name to the collection, and no hype. He was asking double guide for the stuff I was interested in, but he ultimately accepted far less. Only one other person stopped by his booth during the two hours I was there.

 

That being said, I believe that either the 5th or 6th edition of Overstreet was in effect when Chuck purchased the Church books in early 1977. He paid far less than 1% of 1976 OPG “fair market value” for the collection. These are the facts.

 

Savvy young businessman or rip-off artist? You decide. But I’d sure like to know which collector/dealer offered $50k for the $1 million MCA collection, so that I can avoid him.

 

[thehumantorch]

Don't understand that at all. They DID a helluva lot if you ask me. They got the books graded, they advertised the hell out of it, they auctioned it off, they procured the site, they answered questions, and they took care of the packaging, bookkeeping and numerous other things. I'd say they earned their money.

 

Agreed. They worked their arse off on this auction and definately earned their commission.

 

Flying down to Florida and meeting with CGC would not be cheap. I'm sure the two versions of bidding softwear took a cut. Sorting, grading, bagging and boarding all takes time and $$. Promoting the auction and answering questions on bulletin boards has got to be one of the most dangerous jobs in the world.

 

These guys did a great job and raised a ton of $$ for the owners of these books. They also were surprisingly honest.

 

 

Thank you, and by the way we drove from St. Louis to Sarasota, twice on the deal. Don't get me wrong I have a love for the beach that runs deep. You don't fly with 3000 comic books. I carried a 9mm pistol concealed the whole way (yes i have a license, and yes i am a good shot, I fired expert in the Army). We also "helped" West at CGC go through every book. Now I know you guys love this stuff, but this was not my idea of a day at the beach. I was sitting there writing down OOAW #XX 9.6 on the prescreen sheets, Tina was looken up on GPA and West was doing that book flipping head turning squinty eye thing you guys do for 2 or 3 weeks (OK it was only 2 or 3 days but it seemed like weeks to me). All the time my Missouri mind was going beach, beach, beach, white sand, day off, fishing, beach!!!!!

 

 

 

Is this the squinty eye thing?

 

[thehumantorch]

I first met Chuck and his then girlfriend Nanette at a small convention in Sacramento in early 1978. They had brought about half of the Church books with them. No name to the collection, and no hype. He was asking double guide for the stuff I was interested in, but he ultimately accepted far less. Only one other person stopped by his booth during the two hours I was there.

 

That being said, I believe that either the 5th or 6th edition of Overstreet was in effect when Chuck purchased the Church books in early 1977. He paid far less than 1% of 1976 OPG “fair market value” for the collection. These are the facts.

 

Savvy young businessman or rip-off artist? You decide. But I’d sure like to know which collector/dealer offered $50k for the $1 million MCA collection, so that I can avoid him.

 

Agreed. Collecting was a lot different than now but there were collectors, conventions, back issue stores, mail order dealers, fanzines and prozines and an established price guide. Any dealer offering 1% of the value of a collectible is screwing the owner. In Chuck's defense, the owner's of the collection weren't listening and Chuck knew that if they did listen he couldn't afford the books and would lose out on the deal. Chuck had a tough time raising what he did pay them.

[TheShadowKnows]

I first met Chuck and his then girlfriend Nanette at a small convention in Sacramento in early 1978. They had brought about half of the Church books with them. No name to the collection, and no hype. He was asking double guide for the stuff I was interested in, but he ultimately accepted far less. Only one other person stopped by his booth during the two hours I was there.

 

That being said, I believe that either the 5th or 6th edition of Overstreet was in effect when Chuck purchased the Church books in early 1977. He paid far less than 1% of 1976 OPG “fair market value” for the collection. These are the facts.

 

Savvy young businessman or rip-off artist? You decide. But I’d sure like to know which collector/dealer offered $50k for the $1 million MCA collection, so that I can avoid him.

 

Agreed. Collecting was a lot different than now but there were collectors, conventions, back issue stores, mail order dealers, fanzines and prozines and an established price guide. Any dealer offering 1% of the value of a collectible is screwing the owner. In Chuck's defense, the owner's of the collection weren't listening and Chuck knew that if they did listen he couldn't afford the books and would lose out on the deal. Chuck had a tough time raising what he did pay them.

Was 1800 dollars that big of a deal in 1977?I know I was working a little and could have come up with that.

[thehumantorch]

I first met Chuck and his then girlfriend Nanette at a small convention in Sacramento in early 1978. They had brought about half of the Church books with them. No name to the collection, and no hype. He was asking double guide for the stuff I was interested in, but he ultimately accepted far less. Only one other person stopped by his booth during the two hours I was there.

 

That being said, I believe that either the 5th or 6th edition of Overstreet was in effect when Chuck purchased the Church books in early 1977. He paid far less than 1% of 1976 OPG “fair market value” for the collection. These are the facts.

 

Savvy young businessman or rip-off artist? You decide. But I’d sure like to know which collector/dealer offered $50k for the $1 million MCA collection, so that I can avoid him.

 

Agreed. Collecting was a lot different than now but there were collectors, conventions, back issue stores, mail order dealers, fanzines and prozines and an established price guide. Any dealer offering 1% of the value of a collectible is screwing the owner. In Chuck's defense, the owner's of the collection weren't listening and Chuck knew that if they did listen he couldn't afford the books and would lose out on the deal. Chuck had a tough time raising what he did pay them.

Was 1800 dollars that big of a deal in 1977?I know I was working a little and could have come up with that.

 

Found a handy calculator on line.

$1800 in 1977 would be worth aproximately:

 

$6,394.08 using the Consumer Price Index

$5,172.56 using the GDP deflator

$7,083.33 using the value of consumer bundle

$5,980.04 using the unskilled wage

$9,262.48 using the nominal GDP per capita

$12,804.55 using the relative share of GDP

 

I know Chuck repeatedly mentioned hauling the comics in his broken down van and I suspect he was a starving hippy with hardly a penny to his name before he found this collection. It wasn't that much $$ but to him it was a lot. I would happily pay what he paid for the collection in today's dollars. He was one lucky guy to say the least.