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Sale of the Year - New Mutants #98 CGC 9.9 for $12,250
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Started by delekkerste,

1,155 posts in this topic

comicalgems

comicalgems

Posted
Posted

No it's not.

 

It's a 'waking up with Rammstein playing in your head, your wallet empty and a lady-boy lying next to you' kind of dirty.

 

Can't resist, sorry....this video is 100% made of awesome win.

 

 

Yeah nothing quite like some whore dressed up like Snow White snortin' lines of Gold dust and playing with her cooka racha right before getting gang banged necro style by a bunch of short germans.

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bostoncorbett

bostoncorbett

Posted
Posted
It's a perfectly rational explanation, but, unfortunately it is still rendered completely meaningless by the fact that OMFG, DUDE, YOU PAID $12,250 FOR A FREAKIN' NEW MUTANTS #98. :makepoint:

 

I mean, I get your faith in CGC and your exponential valuation explanation, but this is still New Mutants #98 we're talking about and paying $12,250 for it is just :screwy:, no matter what the # is on the label, how many copies of that grade are in the Census and/or how wealthy someone is. If multiple people are willing to pay at/near that price, far from justifying it, it just means you're all just totally bonkers. People can make any argument they like ("what I collect..." is my favorite bit of relativistic nonsense (thumbs u ), but this is just prima facie nuts and anyone who's honest with themself knows it.

 

And just who are these "colleagues" of yours who have offered you a "significant" return on your "investment" already? People are queuing up to pay you, what, $15K+ for this book before it's even in your hands? If that's true, please forward me their names and contact info because I have a giant Ponzi scheme great investment opportunity to sell them.

 

You say you are an economics professor who is now "sans ballz" having shot your wad, so to speak, on this book? Are you telling us that you are not the second coming of Roman Abramovich who can light his cigars with $12,250 checks?? If so, you are clinically insane braver than I thought.

 

Okay... Had to respond to this. I completely respected your post until I clicked on your "homepage" icon and got sent to a website touting "Comic Art," the most subjective and over-priced hobby in the world of comics. And, to top it all off, the "GEM" of the website is the original artwork of nothing other than frickin' G.I. Joe #21! Not just one page, or even two pages... BUT EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF ART FOR THAT ISSUE! I seriously can't see the computer screen as I'm laughing so hard. Hard to type.

 

... G.I. Joe issue #21, even if a 9.9 pops up, is still worth crapola, and I will never ever own a copy. Why? It has absolutley ZERO intrinsic value for me (and G.I. Joe really really does suck donkey ballz).

 

And, yes, I can tell already that we'd get along quite well. :)

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Big Daddy

Big Daddy

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Posted
I have a few questions for our board appointed economics professors (I play one at the local University in real life, by the way). What is the comic worth if...

 

1. There was at least one other person willing to pay $12,350 on the eve of the auction? ANSWER: $12,350 (to that other person, at least on that particular day). That's not including the other bidders who dropped out before reaching this number. And, interestingly, the buyer (me) already had offers from colleagues who collect high grade books for a significant "return" on my "investment." Go figure.

 

2. What is it worth to people who find ZERO intrinsic value in this particular issue in this particular grade? ANSWER: $0 Thus, I will likely not attempt to sell any of my high grade comics to members of this board. For instance, G.I. Joe issue #21, even if a 9.9 pops up, is still worth crapola, and I will never ever own a copy. Why? It has absolutley ZERO intrinsic value for me (and G.I. Joe really really does suck donkey ballz).

 

3. In the comic book industry, can someone please intelligently explain the theory of "Exponential Value Theory"? HINT: The difference in value between .5 and 1.5 is less than 1.5 and 1.8... The difference in value between a 9.6 and a 9.4 is greater than a 9.4 and a 9.2. For an example, just look at the price of Tales of Suspense #39 in 9.0 and 9.2... and then look at the prices between 9.2 and 9.4. Other examples...

 

EXAMPLE A: Luke Cage: Hero for Hire CGC 7.0 sells for $69. There is no significant increase in value until you hit the 9.4 range when it's worth a few hundred bucks. However, Luke Cage: Hero for Hire CGC 9.6 sells for $3,000. And the single 9.8? Well, it sells for whatever ungodly amount of money the winner can afford to grab the book when (if) it ever comes up for sale (I won't be selling it any time soon).

 

EXAMPLE B: Everyone on the board seems to be aware of Incredible Hulk #181. A CGC 9.4 sells for $3,000, a 9.6 sells for $5,000, a 9.8 for $15,000 ($25,000 on a good good day), and a 9.9, again, for whatever ungodly amount of money the winner can afford to grab the book for when (if) it ever comes up for sale.

 

EXAMPLE C: NEW MUTANTS 87 in 9.8 sells for $125 to $150. 9.9 Sold for $3,500 (i.e., an ungodly amount of money that the winner happened to be able to afford when he stumbled across the auction).

 

EXAMPLE D: Iron First #14 sells for $500 in 9.4, $800 in 9.6, and $2500 in 9.8 (I was lucky and snagged a copy at $2,100 -- am I lucky for getting it on the cheap, $400 below FMV, or stupid for not donating the money to poor starving children in Africa? It would pay for 200+ manual laborers in Kenya, by the way). If a 9.9 ever pops up, Good Lord, you'd better be Pablo Escobar to have a prayer of owning the book -- you need to be rich and willing to kill to get it.

 

EXAMPLE E: New Mutants 98. 9.6 sells for the same price as your garden variety "Charmin," 9.8 sells for $200 to $250, and 9.9? Yes, whatever ungodly amount of money, blah, blah, blah.

 

THIS is the lesson that should be discussed. Comics are worth more (significantly more) as their condition increases. How much a book increases in value depends on: individual taste x popularity/demand for a particular issue x scarcity of the issue x popularity of the character x key "event" in an issue x CGC grade (PGX and other company's -- because of their lack of discipline -- doesn't count, unfortunately) x scarcity of CGC grade x luck (knowing of the auction, being in the country to bid for the auction, when other people are NOT aware of the auction, etc.) x [insert whatever variable I'm missing here, please]. Good luck figuring the math out. Please email me when you have.

 

The idea of "pressing," getting screwed, spending too much, etc. is irrelevant. The "possibilities" of how/why this book is no different from 9.8s is moot. Indeed, outside of the case, it's worthless and I would be a complete fool for cracking it open. For starters, I'd instantly be out $12,500. But, thankfully it's still in the case and graded by CGC. CGC, while not perfect, is perfectly objective. At some point, on some day, three CGC employees agreed this book deserves a 9.9 and they assiged this particular book the grade 9.9, and they did not give this grade to any of the previous 9.8s. Yes, the "label" makes the value and not the book itself. Why? Because it's not me, Moose, Tommy Boy, Ricky, The Sperminator, or any other "board" member assigning the grade after we've "pressed" the out of the book. It's CGC, the industry bible. Is the grade a mistake? Maybe. Fluke? Perhaps. Will other high grade books "come forward?" Probably. But even with others -- or even a perfect 10 -- the odds of landing this issue, in this objectively graded condition by industry experts who are presently recognized as "The Authority" on comic book condition, is astronomically remote. The only difference would be that now someone else would have another extremely rare -- and valuable -- high grade comic.

 

The lessons for the high grade collector? 1) Exponential Value Theory means that the price of the "one grade below" has NOTHING to do with the price of the book "one grade above." 2) Valuing a comic is a complicated process that consists of many many variables and you'd better be aware of them before you buy (or sell). 3) ANYONE spending more than cover price on a comic is spending more money than the average Kenyan earns in a day. And 4) if you find a super high grade "popular" book with few others listed on the CGC census, act immediately, or lose the book (and be prepared to give your left nut for the book you want -- I, by the way, am now sans ballz).

 

Thus endeth the lesson.

 

FYI... Pedigree cashed the check today.

 

Well said :applause: Welcome to the boards.

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comicalgems

comicalgems

Posted
Posted
It's a perfectly rational explanation, but, unfortunately it is still rendered completely meaningless by the fact that OMFG, DUDE, YOU PAID $12,250 FOR A FREAKIN' NEW MUTANTS #98. :makepoint:

 

I mean, I get your faith in CGC and your exponential valuation explanation, but this is still New Mutants #98 we're talking about and paying $12,250 for it is just :screwy:, no matter what the # is on the label, how many copies of that grade are in the Census and/or how wealthy someone is. If multiple people are willing to pay at/near that price, far from justifying it, it just means you're all just totally bonkers. People can make any argument they like ("what I collect..." is my favorite bit of relativistic nonsense (thumbs u ), but this is just prima facie nuts and anyone who's honest with themself knows it.

 

And just who are these "colleagues" of yours who have offered you a "significant" return on your "investment" already? People are queuing up to pay you, what, $15K+ for this book before it's even in your hands? If that's true, please forward me their names and contact info because I have a giant Ponzi scheme great investment opportunity to sell them.

 

You say you are an economics professor who is now "sans ballz" having shot your wad, so to speak, on this book? Are you telling us that you are not the second coming of Roman Abramovich who can light his cigars with $12,250 checks?? If so, you are clinically insane braver than I thought.

 

Okay... Had to respond to this. I completely respected your post until I clicked on your "homepage" icon and got sent to a website touting "Comic Art," the most subjective and over-priced hobby in the world of comics. And, to top it all off, the "GEM" of the website is the original artwork of nothing other than frickin' G.I. Joe #21! Not just one page, or even two pages... BUT EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF ART FOR THAT ISSUE! I seriously can't see the computer screen as I'm laughing so hard. Hard to type.

 

... G.I. Joe issue #21, even if a 9.9 pops up, is still worth crapola, and I will never ever own a copy. Why? It has absolutley ZERO intrinsic value for me (and G.I. Joe really really does suck donkey ballz).

 

And, yes, I can tell already that we'd get along quite well. :)

 

Is it possible for you to start a blog somewhere that relates all things comics to people in Kenya. I found that aspect the most fascinating of all. :-)

 

No seriously, I think if you write a blog or essays on contemporary world it'd be a great read. You can put me in the fan column as I like what you've done here, and I like the NM 98 9.9 purchase.

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comicartfan

comicartfan

Posted
Posted
I would rather have several 9.8 copies than 1 9.9...

 

How about several 9.8 copies, a couple of Hulk #181 CGC 9.6s and a few thousand bucks cash thrown in for good measure? Is that something you might be interested in? (shrug)

 

:signfunny:

 

Love the "Entourage" reference.....

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
I have a few questions for our board appointed economics professors (I play one at the local University in real life, by the way). What is the comic worth if...

 

I always find it interesting when someone BEGINS a rant with a passive/aggressive insult....

 

1. There was at least one other person willing to pay $12,350 on the eve of the auction? ANSWER: $12,350 (to that other person, at least on that particular day). That's not including the other bidders who dropped out before reaching this number. And, interestingly, the buyer (me) already had offers from colleagues who collect high grade books for a significant "return" on my "investment." Go figure.

 

The issue isn't how much this slab is worth. Clearly, that slab is currently worth $12,250, as that was the last price it sold for. If you were to sell it again, would it be worth more or less? Nobody knows, until it's sold.

 

The issue is about what value you obtained for your money. Nothing more. Nothing less.

 

2. What is it worth to people who find ZERO intrinsic value in this particular issue in this particular grade? ANSWER: $0 Thus, I will likely not attempt to sell any of my high grade comics to members of this board. For instance, G.I. Joe issue #21, even if a 9.9 pops up, is still worth crapola, and I will never ever own a copy. Why? It has absolutley ZERO intrinsic value for me (and G.I. Joe really really does suck donkey ballz).

 

You don't know what the word "intrinsic" means, because you keep using it incorrectly. The intrinsic value of this book is that amount you can obtain for the material that makes up the item. That does not change even if the form of the item itself changes. In other words, what the book is worth as recycled pulp.

 

What you're talking about is the personal value of an item because of the form it currently takes.

 

Example: a 1933 US Double Eagle has an intrinsic value of about $1050. That is the current value of the gold that it contains. But the personal value of the item, because of the specific form it currently takes, is far, far greater than its intrinsic value, because of the history of the form that this gold and copper disc has taken.

 

Personal value, when applied to a population, becomes "market value."

 

By the way...no item, nothing that exists, is worth less than its intrinsic value, by definition. That value may be negligible, but it still exists.

 

3. In the comic book industry, can someone please intelligently explain the theory of "Exponential Value Theory"? HINT: The difference in value between .5 and 1.5 is less than 1.5 and 1.8... The difference in value between a 9.6 and a 9.4 is greater than a 9.4 and a 9.2. For an example, just look at the price of Tales of Suspense #39 in 9.0 and 9.2... and then look at the prices between 9.2 and 9.4. Other examples...

 

EXAMPLE A: Luke Cage: Hero for Hire CGC 7.0 sells for $69. There is no significant increase in value until you hit the 9.4 range when it's worth a few hundred bucks. However, Luke Cage: Hero for Hire CGC 9.6 sells for $3,000. And the single 9.8? Well, it sells for whatever ungodly amount of money the winner can afford to grab the book when (if) it ever comes up for sale (I won't be selling it any time soon).

 

And what happens when another 9.8 comes up, as it invariably will....?

 

And what is the estimated price difference between a 9.6 at $3,000, and a 9.8?

 

Is it 61.25 times the 9.6 price?

 

EXAMPLE B: Everyone on the board seems to be aware of Incredible Hulk #181. A CGC 9.4 sells for $3,000, a 9.6 sells for $5,000, a 9.8 for $15,000 ($25,000 on a good good day), and a 9.9, again, for whatever ungodly amount of money the winner can afford to grab the book for when (if) it ever comes up for sale.

 

And yet, in this example, a 9.8 sells for only 3-5 times what a 9.6 does.

 

hm

 

For your rationale to carry, the 9.9 Hulk #181 would have to sell for $1,225,000...assuming an average of $20,000 for a 9.8....to be equivalent to the NM 9.9 sale.

 

Anyone planning on paying $1,225,000 for the 9.9 Hulk #181....?

 

EXAMPLE C: NEW MUTANTS 87 in 9.8 sells for $125 to $150. 9.9 Sold for $3,500 (i.e., an ungodly amount of money that the winner happened to be able to afford when he stumbled across the auction).

 

Where can I find that sale recorded? And when did such sale occur?

 

But taking it at face value, let's say 9.8s sold for an average of $150 when the sale took place.

 

That's only 23 times the market rate for the 9.9 as the average 9.8.

 

 

EXAMPLE D: Iron First #14 sells for $500 in 9.4, $800 in 9.6, and $2500 in 9.8 (I was lucky and snagged a copy at $2,100 -- am I lucky for getting it on the cheap, $400 below FMV, or stupid for not donating the money to poor starving children in Africa?

 

This sort of sarcastic silliness has no place in the discussion, if you intend to be taken seriously.

 

You did not get the book for "$400 below FMV", because "FMV" for this book has been anywhere from $1225 to $2500.....or an average of about $1900. So, you actually paid more than the average for this book.

 

It would pay for 200+ manual laborers in Kenya, by the way). If a 9.9 ever pops up, Good Lord, you'd better be Pablo Escobar to have a prayer of owning the book -- you need to be rich and willing to kill to get it.

 

:eyeroll:

 

EXAMPLE E: New Mutants 98. 9.6 sells for the same price as your garden variety "Charmin," 9.8 sells for $200 to $250, and 9.9? Yes, whatever ungodly amount of money, blah, blah, blah.

 

THIS is the lesson that should be discussed. Comics are worth more (significantly more) as their condition increases.

 

Your entire "lesson" is predicated on the idea that there is a substantive, quantitative, consistent, identifiable difference between a 9.9 and a 9.8.

 

There isn't one.

 

If there was, I'd be right there with you, 100%.

 

But there's not.

 

Therefore, your entire argument rests on a foundation that simply doesn't exist.

 

You paid for a label difference, not a quality difference.

 

How much a book increases in value depends on: individual taste x popularity/demand for a particular issue x scarcity of the issue x popularity of the character x key "event" in an issue x CGC grade (PGX and other company's -- because of their lack of discipline -- doesn't count, unfortunately) x scarcity of CGC grade x luck (knowing of the auction, being in the country to bid for the auction, when other people are NOT aware of the auction, etc.) x [insert whatever variable I'm missing here, please]. Good luck figuring the math out. Please email me when you have.

 

All moot, because of the above.

 

The idea of "pressing," getting screwed, spending too much, etc. is irrelevant. The "possibilities" of how/why this book is no different from 9.8s is moot.

 

Wrong.

 

They are vital and central to the discussion.

 

Indeed, outside of the case, it's worthless and I would be a complete fool for cracking it open. For starters, I'd instantly be out $12,500. But, thankfully it's still in the case and graded by CGC. CGC, while not perfect, is perfectly objective.

 

I need say nothing here.

 

I will simply quote the verbage that appears on the back of the label of every single CGC graded book:

 

"CGC guarantees this comic book to be genuine and inspected by a minimum of one pre-graded and two graders. The assigned grade represents our opinion, as grading is subjective."

 

Don't believe CGC themselves?

 

Amazing Spiderman #5. Lived in a 9.6 slab, was re-subbed, and got a 9.8.

 

There are countless examples.

 

If CGC was "perfectly objective", this wouldn't happen.

 

At some point, on some day, three CGC employees agreed this book deserves a 9.9 and they assiged this particular book the grade 9.9, and they did not give this grade to any of the previous 9.8s. Yes, the "label" makes the value and not the book itself. Why? Because it's not me, Moose, Tommy Boy, Ricky, The Sperminator, or any other "board" member assigning the grade after we've "pressed" the out of the book. It's CGC, the industry bible. Is the grade a mistake? Maybe. Fluke? Perhaps. Will other high grade books "come forward?" Probably. But even with others -- or even a perfect 10 -- the odds of landing this issue, in this objectively

 

There's that word again....and CGC wouldn't dare use such a word, because it would expose them to all SORTS of legal action....yet, you feel free to use it.

 

Obviously, you have a vested interest in saying it.

 

graded condition by industry experts who are presently recognized as "The Authority" on comic book condition, is astronomically remote. The only difference would be that now someone else would have another extremely rare -- and valuable -- high grade comic.

 

The lessons for the high grade collector? 1) Exponential Value Theory means that the price of the "one grade below" has NOTHING to do with the price of the book "one grade above."

 

Not true.

 

2) Valuing a comic is a complicated process that consists of many many variables and you'd better be aware of them before you buy (or sell).

 

 

True.

 

3) ANYONE spending more than cover price on a comic is spending more money than the average Kenyan earns in a day.

 

Anyone spending COVER price is spending more money than the average Kenyan earns in a day, but that's still not relevant.

 

And 4) if you find a super high grade "popular" book with few others listed on the CGC census, act immediately, or lose the book (and be prepared to give your left nut for the book you want -- I, by the way, am now sans ballz).

 

Thus endeth the lesson.

 

Where do I get my tuition refunded...?

 

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
Thus endeth the lesson.

 

Welcome to the boards.

You are instantly my new favorite poster. (thumbs u

 

You have terribly low standards....

 

;)

I've just never been one to think that my opinion of how someone else spends their money matters one bit.

And for him to come on here and say, "Yeah, I bought it. I like it. Screw all of you."

...well, frankly that is priceless!

 

lol

 

Really, he doesn't need to justify ANYTHING. He could have paid $1,000,000 for it, and as long as it makes him happy, hey, more power.

 

In fact, if he'd just said "yeah, I bought it. I like it, Screw all of you." I'd have more respect than the RMA length diatribe he actually posted.

 

The fact that he DID try to justify it tells me that maybe SOME part of him understands just how coocoo bananas this purchase really was. ;)

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bostoncorbett

bostoncorbett

Posted
Posted

Where do I get my tuition refunded...?

 

1) I don't give refunds!

 

2) I teach in the b-school. English classes are on the other end of campus.

 

3) And I'd respond to your epic response -- and explain pricing theory and why it's more likely that something will sell for $12,250 versus $100,000,000 -- but it's getting late and I prefer passive-aggressive sarcasm and humor over scholarly debate. Here, on the boards, serious discussion, I believe, has no intrinsic (i.e, innate, natural, true, real) value. *checking the dictionary for proper definition*

 

4) And "objective" refers to the fact that CGC is a neutral third party. Purchasing something from a third party with no dog in the fight makes their opinion OBJECTIVE, even though their opinion might differ from some other neutral third party, making it SUBJECTIVE. *checking to see if I used the word "dog" correctly -- any carnivore of the dog family Canidae, having prominent canine teeth and, in the wild state, a long and slender muzzle, a deep-chested muscular body, a bushy tail, and large, erect ears.*

 

Loving this board,

 

Brian (AKA Boston Corbett)

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted

Where do I get my tuition refunded...?

 

1) I don't give refunds!

 

Well, at least I got my money's worth.

 

2) I teach in the b-school. English classes are on the other end of campus.

 

3) And I'd respond to your epic response -- and explain pricing theory and why it's more likely that something will sell for $12,250 versus $100,000,000 -- but it's getting late and I prefer passive-aggressive sarcasm and humor over scholarly debate. Here, on the boards, serious discussion, I believe, has no intrinsic (i.e, innate, natural, true, real) value. *checking the dictionary for proper definition*

 

You think lower of your fellow man than I.

 

A shame.

 

But, your theory is still off. (thumbs u

 

4) And "objective" refers to the fact that CGC is a neutral third party. Purchasing something from a third party with no dog in the fight makes their opinion OBJECTIVE, even though their opinion might differ from some other neutral third party, making it SUBJECTIVE.

 

It's good that you cleared that up. It's not at all what you said the first time. It's still not quite right, but it's close enough.

 

(thumbs u

 

And you didn't purchase the book from CGC. You didn't purchase their opinion, either. The original slabber did. (thumbs u

 

I know, details, details, who cares about the damn details?

 

*checking to see if I used the word "dog" correctly -- any carnivore of the dog family Canidae, having prominent canine teeth and, in the wild state, a long and slender muzzle, a deep-chested muscular body, a bushy tail, and large, erect ears.*

 

Loving this board,

 

Brian (AKA Boston Corbett)

 

(thumbs u

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