Time for CGC to get rid of the PLOD & GLOD, they serve no purpose!

[Timely]

I sure wish Steve B. would put this thoughts on this thread, unfortunately I think it's too HOT of a topic for CGC to handle. With all the debate over PLOD, GLOD, Restoration levels and the such it's obvious to me that things need to change.

 

The PLOD & GLOD were for starters, but CGC is capable of so much more. It's time for CGC to move forward to the next level. One color label WITH RESTORATION notes CLEARLY and VISIBLY located on the holder is not too much to ask for.

 

If I am going to pay CGC up to $1000 to grade one single comic I do not think I am asking for too much, and as a customer/user of CGC, neither should you!

 

Timely

[THE_BEYONDER]

[Darthdiesel]

If I am going to pay CGC up to $1000 to grade one single comic I do not think I am asking for too much, and as a customer/user of CGC, neither should you!

 

Timely

 

 

There is another camp who is using CGC to make a profit and it would not behoove their business to have all the "fixed flaws/resto techniques" of the book listed right on the label for the world to see. Less is more (less info = more money) and they are also folks paying up to $1000 on a book to get an official grade but hide why the book got that grade. They know certain BSDs don't like date stamps, miswraps, Color touch - even a dot of it and one note on a label may destroy a sale.

 

Just before you think I'm part of this camp...I do not own a single book that would cost anything over $30 to grade...ie, nothing that would have to go into CGC worthy of getting an FMV based fee...

[lou_fine]

I sure wish Steve B. would put this thoughts on this thread, unfortunately I think it's too HOT of a topic for CGC to handle. With all the debate over PLOD, GLOD, Restoration levels and the such it's obvious to me that things need to change.

 

The PLOD & GLOD were for starters, but CGC is capable of so much more. It's time for CGC to move forward to the next level. One color label WITH RESTORATION notes CLEARLY and VISIBLY located on the holder is not too much to ask for.

 

If I am going to pay CGC up to $1000 to grade one single comic I do not think I am asking for too much, and as a customer/user of CGC, neither should you!

 

Timely

 

Timely;

 

I also sent Steve B. a PM on this topic during the weekend. I fully do not expect to hear any type of response from him or CGC because this issue has come up in the past before. This is a real hot potato in the industry and in all fairness to CGC, cannot be addressed by them alone.

 

Privately, major dealers and power figures in the market have stated off the record that this is a serious issue which will EVENTUALLY have to be addressed. At this point in time, however, all relevant parties do not have the will or the balls to face this issue head on. I think they are all hoping for one of the others to make the first move and be the galvanizing force. This area is viewed as a very risky issue and nobody wants to be seen as the bad guy by making either the first move or the wrong move.

 

Until this issue is fully addressed, I believe that a large number of high grade Golden Age books (both restored and unrestored) will not see the light of day for a long long time. IMHO

[Timely]

This area is viewed as a very risky issue and nobody wants to be seen as the bad guy by making either the first move or the wrong move.

 

 

I understand this, but what I think we are all saying is that CGC already made their move when they opened shop, and the PLOD & GLOD turned out to be the wrong move! It has killed those books!

 

Everyone keeps saying Restored books are worth less because of the restoration, not the label, but that IS wrong! Restored books used to sell for 40-50% of condition guide (unrestored books sold for 1-3 times guide) now they sell for 5-10% of guide.

 

Timely

[lou_fine]

Hey Gang;

 

It looks like the PLOD discussion has now moved over to the "Clean, Press, Resubmit, and Flip" thread. It looks like we may have to continue our discussions over there since this thread may have too many postings for everybody to go through.

 

I just notice that Steve B. has also gone on with a couple of his posts thanking people at the BEGINNING of the thread. I just wish he would answer some of the more serious questions once the thread gets going instead of pulling his usual disappearing act.

[Bullet123]

Will someone please tell me what you mean when you say PLOD killed the restored book market? Is it dead because it doesn't command the same multiple as an unrestored book? It shouldn't. It is not the same as an unrestored book. Purple label, pink label, red label, chartreuse label; it does not make the book more of less desirable. If you want PLOD books to command the respect that a blue label does, changing its color will not suffice. There are a number of high end collectors who have been burned very badly by books that were sold in the past as cherry books unrestored, who when submitting them to CGC, are finding out that is not what they bought. The dealers that sold them those books will not buy the books back even at a tremendous discount to guide( lets say 50%) so why should anyone wan't to buy another restored book at any price. CGC did not kill the market with PLOD; rather the dealers who have over the years decieved the buying public about exactly what it is that they bought have and they are the only ones who can get out the crash cart and revive those dying books. If you, as a dealer do not want to buy a restored book, why would anyone else?

[PovertyRow]

Will someone please tell me what you mean when you say PLOD killed the restored book market? Is it dead because it doesn't command the same multiple as an unrestored book? It shouldn't. It is not the same as an unrestored book. Purple label, pink label, red label, chartreuse label; it does not make the book more of less desirable.

 

I can't speak for Timely but that is a actually, in my view, the whole thing in a nutshell. Assigning the PLOD across the board to books that have a tear seal along with books that have had pieces replaced, spine reinforced and large amounts of color touch seems to have caused many folks to just glom all of resotration into one level without any real consideration for the extent or even without a knowledge of what is entailed in a tear seal vs spine reinforcement. To me the PLOD is a deeducator. All some people need to see is the Purple label and the "restored" wheel clicks and the book is just shuffled passed.

[Timely]

Will someone please tell me what you mean when you say PLOD killed the restored book market? Is it dead because it doesn't command the same multiple as an unrestored book? It shouldn't.

 

I wish people would actually READ what I write.

 

Here's a chart for all of you who need it, showing the history of restored, unrestored and PLOD.

 

Oversteet guide on this book 3 years ago in NM: $5000

NM Unrestored: worth 3 years ago: $12,000

NM Restored: worth 3 years ago: $3600

NM PLOD: value today: $1200

 

 

Nuff said?...I wish!

 

Timely

[Illiterati-migration]

Will someone please tell me what you mean when you say PLOD killed the restored book market? Is it dead because it doesn't command the same multiple as an unrestored book? It shouldn't.

 

I wish people would actually READ what I write.

 

Here's a chart for all of you who need it, showing the history of restored, unrestored and PLOD.

 

Oversteet guide on this book 3 years ago in NM: $5000

NM Unrestored worth 3 years ago: $12,000

NM Restored worth of book 3 years ago: $3600

NM PLOD value today: $1200

 

 

Nuff said?...I wish!

 

Timely

 

Looks like a rare moment of sanity on the part of collectors to me.

 

Why buy a comic if it's Frankenbook?

[Bronty]

That's just POV's point!!! A book with only a tear seal ISN'T a frankenbook at all!!

[Illiterati-migration]

That's just POV's point!!! A book with only a tear seal ISN'T a frankenbook at all!!

 

FRANKENBOOK!

 

[PovertyRow]

That's just POV's point!!! A book with only a tear seal ISN'T a frankenbook at all!!

 

FRANKENBOOK!

 

 

FRANKENBOOKER (you better get that, Khaos!)

 

[fantastic_four]

FRANKENBOOK!

 

NOT frankenbook! If you owned a Giant-Size X-Men #1 with a 1/4" to 1/2" spine split, you would rather have it unsealed than sealed? Leaving it unsealed means you can't open the book without risking the split becoming longer.

 

Or do you buy Povertyrow's argument that you'd never open up a book of this caliber to begin with? I can't imagine you would since you berate people who buy books without reading them.

[lou_fine]

Will someone please tell me what you mean when you say PLOD killed the restored book market? Is it dead because it doesn't command the same multiple as an unrestored book? It shouldn't. It is not the same as an unrestored book. Purple label, pink label, red label, chartreuse label; it does not make the book more of less desirable.

 

I can't speak for Timely but that is a actually, in my view, the whole thing in a nutshell. Assigning the PLOD across the board to books that have a tear seal along with books that have had pieces replaced, spine reinforced and large amounts of color touch seems to have caused many folks to just glom all of resotration into one level without any real consideration for the extent or even without a knowledge of what is entailed in a tear seal vs spine reinforcement. To me the PLOD is a deeducator. All some people need to see is the Purple label and the "restored" wheel clicks and the book is just shuffled passed.

 

Bullet;

 

POV and Timely are exactly right. You really should read some of the posts here before putting down your points of view. All you have to do is to go through some of the auction results from Heritage and Manning over the past few years. High grade blue label books WITH minor restoration generally sells for a very healthy premium (and even multiples) over guide while the high grade purple label books with minor restoration generally only sells at a deep deep discount to guide. As I stated in another thread, this huge difference in price is a direct result of the PLOD and not by the relatively minor difference in restoration between the two books.

[Bullet123]

So what you are saying is that if there is a pen mark on a GA book and cgc has to notate as color touch thereby giving it the blue label with notes, that is the same as someone who has deliberatley color touched and glue sealed the spine trying to get that last .02 out of a book and earning the plod, that those are in essence the same book? IMO all books with any restoration questions should have a purple label and plod should be priced based on the level of restoration. If you read my previous posts you would see my point is that the dealer and collecting community determines the value of the book, not CGC. I find it disturbing that you feel that changing the color of the label for restored books will ressurect that sector of the market. The only thing that will breathe life into that market is if the dealer community stands up and says we will BUY as well as sell restored CGC books and I do not see that happening in my lifetime

[PovertyRow]

Or do you buy Povertyrow's argument that you'd never open up a book of this caliber to begin with? I can't imagine you would since you berate people who buy books without reading them.

 

Huh? Did I say that???

[LordRahl]

There's one point here that you're conviniently ignoring. There is no outcry by the MAJORITY of collectors to get rid of the PLOD and GLOD labels. There is an outcry by SOME collectors such as yourself and Lou Fine but as you can see by this thread it's a very heatedly debated issue. So why should CGC change something that only SOME people view as a problem? I do agree with some of your points but you seem to be deciding what collectors in general want based on the views of a limited segment of the collector community.

[fantastic_four]

Huh? Did I say that???

 

24 hours and 600 posts later, I don't remember WHO said it. Too many intertwined grading and restoration threads these days!

[fantastic_four]

So why should CGC change something that only SOME people view as a problem?

 

Because CGC is supposed to have a more experienced and balanced viewpoint than their customers; that's what anybody who purchases an information-related service is paying for. Most people don't know enough about restoration and its history to have an informed opinion on the topic.