Besides Batman Who is the Greatest Power-Less Superhero? - Poll added

[conditionfreak]

Well,

 

The comic book universe is all about these non super powered heroes taking on super powered heroes. It is not about non supes vs non supes very often.

 

Now, in your scenario, let's suppose Conan had to battle Bruce Wayne. How would that go? How would Conan vs Steve Rogers go? How would Conan vs Dic Grayson go? How would Conan vs Mr. Fantastic (without powers) go?

 

Even if we disregard timelines, which would prevent Conan vs almost any of them, (without a time machine story line). We are still left with the subject of "is there time to prepare for this battle or is this two guys meeting in a bar and going at it"?

 

If you think about it. Bruce Banner (basically a wimp) could take out Conan with an ordinary handgun. Now, the point comes into play that Conan could easily kill Banner with a handgun also. But would he even know how to use one and would he even try to use one, because all he knows is medeivel weaponry and he is confident and stubborn.

 

This all gets to complicated.

 

But in general. Batman is the man. Captain America without any super soldier serum (in his hey day) is also. Daredevil perhaps (without his "powers") also has a shot. He is a fantastic fighter and athlete. Nick Fury? eh, okay I guess.

 

You could go around throwing in the Bullseyes, Hawkeyes, King Pins, Braniacs, etc, all you want. But if I was betting the mortage money on one of two guys meeting in an arena in a fight to the end. Batman would be my choice unless you allow Tony Stark in his suit. Even then though. Bats would be ready for him with some surprises.

 

Okay. The more I think about it. The winner would have to be Tony Stark or Mr. Fantastic, if the fight was scheduled for next week. If the fight was a spur of the moment thing and no weaponry was allowed. Bats wins hands down, between non powered vs non powered. Even against that savage Conan.

 

To paraphrase a famous Ali quote. Batman moves like a fly and hits like a jack hammer.

 

Ever try to box a fly or punch a jack hammer? You lose either way.

[conditionfreak]

I don't normally like to talk about comic book characters like this, but simply put Batman is human. As good as a human can be (maybe), but he is not going to survive 3 minutes with the Hulk unless the Hulk is in a good mood. Just ain't happening. The Hulk is tireless, practically invulnerable, and also has far above human reflexes.

 

This is precisely the reason I despise Frank Millers take on Batman and Superman. If Batman ever became a problem, and Superman was the facist that Miller likes to make him out to be, Superman would simply vaporize him from space or hit him at super speed, or at the very least, take the kryptonite ring from him before he could ever use it.

 

Batman's mythic fighting ability is unimaginably over-rated.

 

 

Well, this is all a moot point, as you made the point that these are fictional characters. But "history" and precedence has shown that Batman would fair the best against the Hulk. Of course no writer would just let a hero die (I'm making a joke here, because they "die" often enough),

 

As you also pointed out, Batman has battled with Superman (arguably the most powerful hero around) and lived to tell about it. He lasted WAY longer than three minutes.

 

I guess there would be a difference between two "dudes" just happening to meet on a street corner and duking it out, and between two having a day to prepare to fight. If there was a battle coming tomorrow against the Hulk and I had to choose who to "send in" (with the restriction of not having any super powers for my selection), I would send in Batman. But my first pick would be Mr. Fantastic with his powers removed. He would undoubtably be ready, with some fantastic gadgets that were made explicitly to beat the Hulk. Probably an anti-gamma ray weapon that would turn the Hulk into Banner, and then Mr. Fantastic would have to finish the job the old fashion way. Open up a can of whoop azz. Or, simply shoot him with a Colt 45.

 

In the same vein, if the fight were scheduled for one month from now. The Hulk would be in serious trouble with Mr. Fantastic (without powers), Batman, or a host of other non powered heroes. But not Conan. Conan would just brawl it out and get the bejeebies beat out of him. He has no powers. He doesn't have a super brain. He has no weapons except for medievel types. He ain't even a Bruce Lee type. He is just a really really good back street fighter.

 

I'd put my man Hulk up against Conan any day of the week. Bullets and bombs don't faze the Hulk. What could a sword or axe do? Some of the best and most powerful villians (and heroes) around, have tried to take on the Hulk. The Silver Surfer did a good job. But most are lucky to survive to tell about it.

 

Conan would become a "legend" after tangling with Hulky. A dead legend.

 

 

eh, I don't buy it. So an olympic level athlete with rarely matched fighting skills(Cap, Shang Chi, Iron Fist) can defeat an invulnerable opponent who can literally move worlds or survive an atomic explosion? The only reason Batman would ever survive is if Superman had mercy on him. And unless Batman is carrying that lead box with the Kryptonite ring around with him in his utility belt, he is going to need some preparation to fight Superman too.

 

For my money, Superman could destroy everyone else in an all out battle. His powers are just too much to deal with. Superspeed (which matches the Flash), supervision, invulnerability, super-strength which is off the charts. Even goofy powers like superbreath could defeat Batman. Superman is certainly more powerful than the Hulk(unless he was madder than he has ever been before), and more powerful than Thor(though King of Rulers would argue).

 

Hasn't Superman been defeated many times, and killed once or twice?

[Dale Roberts]

I don't normally like to talk about comic book characters like this, but simply put Batman is human. As good as a human can be (maybe), but he is not going to survive 3 minutes with the Hulk unless the Hulk is in a good mood. Just ain't happening. The Hulk is tireless, practically invulnerable, and also has far above human reflexes.

 

This is precisely the reason I despise Frank Millers take on Batman and Superman. If Batman ever became a problem, and Superman was the facist that Miller likes to make him out to be, Superman would simply vaporize him from space or hit him at super speed, or at the very least, take the kryptonite ring from him before he could ever use it.

 

Batman's mythic fighting ability is unimaginably over-rated.

 

 

Well, this is all a moot point, as you made the point that these are fictional characters. But "history" and precedence has shown that Batman would fair the best against the Hulk. Of course no writer would just let a hero die (I'm making a joke here, because they "die" often enough),

 

As you also pointed out, Batman has battled with Superman (arguably the most powerful hero around) and lived to tell about it. He lasted WAY longer than three minutes.

 

I guess there would be a difference between two "dudes" just happening to meet on a street corner and duking it out, and between two having a day to prepare to fight. If there was a battle coming tomorrow against the Hulk and I had to choose who to "send in" (with the restriction of not having any super powers for my selection), I would send in Batman. But my first pick would be Mr. Fantastic with his powers removed. He would undoubtably be ready, with some fantastic gadgets that were made explicitly to beat the Hulk. Probably an anti-gamma ray weapon that would turn the Hulk into Banner, and then Mr. Fantastic would have to finish the job the old fashion way. Open up a can of whoop azz. Or, simply shoot him with a Colt 45.

 

In the same vein, if the fight were scheduled for one month from now. The Hulk would be in serious trouble with Mr. Fantastic (without powers), Batman, or a host of other non powered heroes. But not Conan. Conan would just brawl it out and get the bejeebies beat out of him. He has no powers. He doesn't have a super brain. He has no weapons except for medievel types. He ain't even a Bruce Lee type. He is just a really really good back street fighter.

 

I'd put my man Hulk up against Conan any day of the week. Bullets and bombs don't faze the Hulk. What could a sword or axe do? Some of the best and most powerful villians (and heroes) around, have tried to take on the Hulk. The Silver Surfer did a good job. But most are lucky to survive to tell about it.

 

Conan would become a "legend" after tangling with Hulky. A dead legend.

 

 

eh, I don't buy it. So an olympic level athlete with rarely matched fighting skills(Cap, Shang Chi, Iron Fist) can defeat an invulnerable opponent who can literally move worlds or survive an atomic explosion? The only reason Batman would ever survive is if Superman had mercy on him. And unless Batman is carrying that lead box with the Kryptonite ring around with him in his utility belt, he is going to need some preparation to fight Superman too.

 

For my money, Superman could destroy everyone else in an all out battle. His powers are just too much to deal with. Superspeed (which matches the Flash), supervision, invulnerability, super-strength which is off the charts. Even goofy powers like superbreath could defeat Batman. Superman is certainly more powerful than the Hulk(unless he was madder than he has ever been before), and more powerful than Thor(though King of Rulers would argue).

 

Hasn't Superman been defeated many times, and killed once or twice?

 

Not really. Maybe in some ridiculous version of retcon version of Superman. Yes, he was killed/not killed something by Doomsday, but Doomsday is Hulk on HGH. Superman might have been stunned by Solomon Grundy(magic), maybe by Green Lantern(only in a GL book though), weakened by the Parasite, stunned by Bizarrro (who strength wise should be nearly equal to Superman), maybe KOed by Darkseid(not sure about this).

 

And it wasn't Batman who did it.

 

I would suppose that the modern/retcon version of Superman might not be as powerful, I don't know, I don't read it anymore. But the Silver Age/Bronze/Copper Age Superman, you don't want to mess with. His powers were practically without limits.

 

Maybe if Batman could figure out a way to put out the sun?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Archie, of course.

 

He took on the Punisher.

[Limited66]

After reconsidering....I have to go with Doc Savage. Just cuz nobody knows about his accomplishments does not diminish his abilities. Who else fights crime, overcomes it then takes the criminals to a secret labratory in upstate New York and performs delicate brain operations on them, to change them into law abiding citizens.

 

Not only that.......he is the inventor of the Spock knockout grip !!!

 

 

Is he really power-less? I mean he seems to have super strength or something. You probably know better than I do, I just read the early seventies paperback books series.

[seanfingh]

 

This thread is awful. I mean, just wretched.

 

 

 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

This thread is awful. I mean, just wretched.

 

 

 

 

 

 

lol lol

 

That girl looks like she went into the loo, not the exit...

 

[comicalgems]

I still can't believe no one has agreed with Orgazmo.

[conditionfreak]

Let's face it. Any (and I do mean ANY) of the heroes without super powers, could on any given day defeat the Hulk, Galactus or any other character.

 

It is all about sales. If Batman is "killed", then sales sky rocket. If Superman is "killed", then sales sky rocket. If Robin is "killed". The same thing.

 

If the wasp can defeat the Hulk by going inside his ear drum and driving him nuts. Or if the ASM can defeat Galactus. Then any and all things are possible if the writers want them to be.

 

Heck. I bet you someday, there will be a story line whereupon the Atom goes up the nostril of the Hulk and starts taking the Hulks brain apart, one handful at a time. Causing him to turn into a dumb brute that says things like "Hulk Smash Puny Human" (whoops. started out like that, didn't he). Or turns the Hulk into a sweetheart with guidance via instructiions from Mr. Fantastic which part of the brain to damage with a tiny tiny lazer gun.

 

Yep. It ain't up to us nor the precedence already set. It is up to any given writer and editor, in any given issue.

 

I have read stories where Lois Lane or Jimmy Olsen kicked the krap out of Supes.

 

Two thoughts. Shouldn't Bizarro Superman krap out of his mouth and eat with his anus? Shouldn't he actually be a wimp? Shouldn't he actually be in love with Jimmy Olsen?

 

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[Senormac]

After reconsidering....I have to go with Doc Savage. Just cuz nobody knows about his accomplishments does not diminish his abilities. Who else fights crime, overcomes it then takes the criminals to a secret labratory in upstate New York and performs delicate brain operations on them, to change them into law abiding citizens.

 

Not only that.......he is the inventor of the Spock knockout grip !!!

 

 

Is he really power-less? I mean he seems to have super strength or something. You probably know better than I do, I just read the early seventies paperback books series.

 

He is a man born to become a champion at everything. Tutored by the greatest brains in every scientific subject from a youth. The greatest chemist on earth. The greatest electrician. The most renowned engineer. The most knowledgeable geologist. The most astute lawyer. But above and beyond all things....he is the greatest surgeon on earth. The human body is an open book to his steady surgical hand. He knows where every nerve center is and is able to render a man completely helpless by a punch, pinch or a blow to one of these certain spots.

 

He speaks every known language on the planet......and quite a few that are extinct.....like Mayan. He can identify hundreds of scents by smell and hear tones and pitches far above and below the ear of normal man. He can read brail, and has the grip of an ape....able to scale the sides of buildings with just the tiniest of hand holds. His muscles are trained to amazing hugeness and dexterity by a two hour regimine performed daily to keep sharp. He has two fake teeth that hold acid or explosives .....which ever his amazing forsight has lead him to store there. He holds the patents for thousands of new inventions and is incredibly wealthy.

 

I could go on......but anyone who likes pulp fiction.....should read some of these yarns. He was before Superman. He was before Batman. He was before Spock......and a host of other costumed heros from the 40's stole elements of his greatness and capitalized on them. Not the heros really.....but the authors and artists of those heros. You just know Simon and Siegal knew about Doc Savage. You just know that Bob Kane knew about Doc Savage. And you just know that Gene Rodenberry knew about Doc Savage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Senormac]

[HD]

I agree that Doc Savage makes the most sense – if you allow pulp heroes. The pulps (and the later paperbacks) made it clear that a lifetime of daily self training is what made him so successful in his battle against evil. He was not gifted with anything special except for raw talent and diligent study and training.

 

I think we forgot about Snake Eyes – I am pretty sure he has no super powers and his talent is all in his training and attitude. Besides, he doesn't waste all his energy talking. If they were both unarmed, I suspect Snake Eyes could take Batman.

[gcstomp]

The standing that we give the characters is aligned well with the lifetime work output in circulation. If you pile up every original Batman story, including Elseworlds, Detectives, partnership adventures in Worlds Finest, his work would be miles higher than everyone else.

 

Batman is the man because he is so central to our idea of the ultimate non super powered hero, and decades of work by hundreds of writers have covered every angle to make sure his place is on top of the heap. Arguably he is the single greatest hero in american mythology.

 

The work output of Conan is probably second, if you count the paperbacks, the Savage Sword mag, the long Marvel run, the terrific Dark Horse current run. Maybe that is why his name keeps coming up.

[Senormac]

Don't forget Barry Windsor

[Raphael]

so is Captain America not included because of the super-soldier serum?

[rednalsram]

Funny that you posted the Moonstone Phantom comic;

my buddy Mark Stegbauer did some of the inking on that comic.

 

These 4 all started before the Batman, they don`t have Warner to market them so of course their popularity has gone down.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gaz2810i]

so is Captain America not included because of the super-soldier serum?

 

Yep

[The Silver-Age]

Conan the Cimmerian

 

No super-powers... check

Heap BIG Billy Badass... check

No tech... check

Great stories, great art, great history... check

 

'Nuff Said!

 

+1

[Reno McCoy]

Conan the Cimmerian

 

No super-powers... check

Heap BIG Billy Badass... check

No tech... check

Great stories, great art, great history... check

 

'Nuff Said!

 

+1

 

Agreed, but not to get technical, but is Conan considered a superhero? Or is this thread focused on heroes in general, not just the super ones?

[comicalgems]

Hands Down I still say Orgazmo.