Do You Care? Hypothetical Question!!!

[sfilosa]

OK:

 

There are several threads going around about Restoration. What should and what shouldn't be, Blue Label vs. Purple Label, etc.

 

Preface: If it wasn't for CGC, I wouldn't be collecting comics.

 

So here's a hypothetical scenario:

 

You buy a Universal Labeled CGC'd book off of eBay. It's a book in high-grade, you paid a reasonable price and it is a book you really wanted.

 

You get the book and show a scan of the cover on this forum because you are so proud of it. A very well respected forum member ask you if on the back cover there is a very small penciled arrival code (something unusual). You say yes, how did they know?

 

They email you back and say that they use to own that book. They say they sold it unslabbed to a well known dealer. They also say that back in the 80's, they had the book "CLEANED AND PRESSED" by a top notch professional. They say the work was done so well that they are not surprised that CGC did not give it a Purple Label.

 

DO YOU CARE?

 

I will answer first.

 

NO!!!!!

 

1) From a collector's point of view, I have a beautiful book that I have always wanted and it looks great. Very little defects (high-grade) and very little sign of aging (probably due to the cleaning and pressing).

 

2) From a financial point of view, if I ever need to sell the book, it will be sold as a Univesal Blue Label book. If I sell a CGC book, I only guarantee that the book in the case is the book that I bought. I don't guarantee the grade or the restoration detection.

 

SO:

 

DO YOU CARE?

 

 

 

[COI]

Do I care about having a book that's been cleaned and pressed in my collection? No.

 

Does it bother me that it got past CGC, and was given a blue label? Yes.

 

I consider professional cleaning restoration. I think it's minor, but it is resto none the less. Therefore, I should not be paying the full, unrestored price. I would still be willing to pay well for it(maybe 80% of the unrestored price), and I think that the current price gap for very minor restoration, especially professional, is unreasonable. However I believe in full disclosure and the right to know what I'm buying. It's the not knowing that bothers me, not the resto itself. If one book slipped through, then how do I know that other books I own are exactly what I think they are? Maybe other books I paid well for have been cleaned at some point, and I'm unaware. That's where this scenario bothers me.

 

 

 

[Illiterati-migration]

Preface: If it wasn't for CGC, I wouldn't be collecting comics.

 

Can you elaborate on this? You've never collected comics for reading? You have collected in the past and CGC brought you back to the hobby?

 

[ninanina]

I wouldn't care at all.

[LordRahl]

Couldn't care less. I own restored books and may buy more in the future. I have no problem with restored books but I would prefer to buy them at current PLOD discount as opposed to jacking up their prices by switching to a one color label system such as some "collectors" are proposing.

[Hensley300]

Yes, i dont care either atleast on golden and silver aged books. Id pay less for a beautifully restored say flash 105 rather than 90k for what? the 9.4 that recently sold?. Or a batman 1 or something. I think bronze and modern its a waste as far as return but, depending on how much i paid, sure. After all, many of the books one would by restored would mainly be for showing off anyways right? Most people that dont collect books regularly that i would show a key golden/silver would still be excited all the same, they dont know about the prejudice of the restored label in the collecting community and besides, up until cgc wasnt restored considered just as good anyways? Didnt most collectors of the big issues like supes 1 action 1 etc want to restore their book if it wasnt in tip top shape? If restoration wasnt considered a positive attribute, the upfront, professional biz restorers wouldnt have had a job (only the backdoor, dishonest sellers wouldve been restoring).

[sfilosa]

Preface: If it wasn't for CGC, I wouldn't be collecting comics.

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

Can you elaborate on this? You've never collected comics for reading? You have collected in the past and CGC brought you back to the hobby?

 

I have collected comic books for over 25 years. I started and stopped collecting during different periods of my life. The last book I had bought was a GA book in 1999. I then didn't buy another book until early 2003. Why?

 

Because almost all the books that I bought from well known dealers were overgraded in my opinion. (and therefore not worth what they should be worth).

 

I love collecting comic books, but just got tired of paying the price for one thing and getting something else (almost always something worse). Then I would either keep it and always be dissappointed. Not in the grade of the book as much as the fact that I didn't get what I expected. Or I sent the book back and I'm out $10-15 (shipping both ways) and have ZERO to show for it.

 

Which leads me to my DO YOU CARE question. I don't really care about the "PRESSING AND CLEANING" because the book LOOKS to be what I bought, and I will be sold as WHAT I BOUGHT, not something less.

 

 

 

 

[Red Hook]

No, I wouldn't give it a second thought, although it's a fascinating case.

[Zanarkand]

I wouldn't care. I own lots and lots of bargain bin refugess that have non-color breaking bends here and there, and would love to press them out. If I happened to sell that book later, I wouldn't lose any sleep over listing it as unrestored.

 

I'm absolutely positive that other people do the same. Therefore I have no fear of purchasing a book that has been pressed either.

[Aman619]

Do I care about having a book that's been cleaned and pressed in my collection? No.

 

Does it bother me that it got past CGC, and was given a blue label? Yes.

 

I consider professional cleaning restoration. I think it's minor, but it is resto none the less. Therefore, I should not be paying the full, unrestored price. I would still be willing to pay well for it(maybe 80% of the unrestored price), and I think that the current price gap for very minor restoration, especially professional, is unreasonable. However I believe in full disclosure and the right to know what I'm buying. It's the not knowing that bothers me, not the resto itself. If one book slipped through, then how do I know that other books I own are exactly what I think they are? Maybe other books I paid well for have been cleaned at some point, and I'm unaware. That's where this scenario bothers me.

 

exactly!

Its the fact that CGC missed it that is the cautionary point in this imaginary (?) tale.

[burntboy]

i'm with you on this example red - would not care in the least.

 

i'm totally ok with pressing and pretty cool with cleaning (assuming no chemical additives get left in the book).

 

i also understand the purists viewpoint and would be hard pressed to believe i could successfully argue against it and have no intention of trying........

 

i own a handfull of GA KEYS that have been restored. i love'em and this was how i could afford them. i'm hoping that someday the stigma of restoration lessens

[garthgantu]

Not only wouldn't I care, but I would argue that the lists of books that have been resubbed and received higher grades - in some cases, MUCH higher grades - indicates that CGC doesn't care either.

 

CGC can't afford to care about resto it can't easily identify. So cleaning and pressing appear to be sliding into the "not really resto" category by default. Of the many forms that restoration can take, pressing seems to me to be about the most innocuous. Cleaning is near the top of that category of resto as well - at least non-chemical cleaning.

[Rip]

A little bit,.....(But hey its blue label..... easy to dump when I feel like it)

but if you asked me the same question 10 years ago I would of said yes absolutely.

[sfilosa]

A little bit,.....(But hey its blue label..... easy to dump when I feel like it)

 

 

Since it bothers you a little, would you try to sell the book right away?

 

And does it bother you a little because CGC would have missed it, or because it's actually "cleaned and pressed"?

[Rip]

No, unless it was a "flipper purchase" anyway.

 

And does it bother you a little because CGC would have missed it, or because it's actually "cleaned and pressed"?

Both, Also, it makes me wonder how much they DO miss,

.......and what I can get away with.

[sfilosa]

Both, Also, it makes me wonder how much they DO miss,

.......and what I can get away with.

 

 

Now you sound like Hammer.

 

He kept mentioning that a certain seller would continue to send in books to CGC that were trimmed. The seller wanted to make sure that every once in a while the trimming was so noticable that CGC caught it. The theory was, if they caught the really bad one, than the other books must not be trimmed.

 

Quite Amusing Actually.

 

[JMcD]

it makes me wonder how much they DO miss

 

CGC NEVER MAKES MISTAKES!!!

[Rip]

OK, here's the flip side. Say you bought a super key book.

FF 1 or Hulk 1 9.4 and the same thing happened.

Would you be worried at all?

Would you feel that your copy is somehow less than the other 9.4's?

If buying, would you pay slightly less for the "cleaned copy" as opposed to the other 9.4's?

[sfilosa]

OK, here's the flip side. Say you bought a super key book.

FF 1 or Hulk 1 9.4 and the same thing happened.

Would you be worried at all?

Would you feel that your copy is somehow less than the other 9.4's?

If buying, would you pay slightly less for the "cleaned copy" as opposed to the other 9.4's?

 

As a collector, owning the book wouldn't bother me. It's obviously a beautiful book.

 

 

From a financial point of view, I might be a touch concerned that somehow when it comes time to sell, it might be known that this book was "cleaned and pressed". I might think that other dealers / collectors didn't want the book because they knew about the "cleaning and pressing"

[Rip]

I think that's the dilemma. Sometimes its not so much if YOU care, but will OTHERS care. And if they do then you have to take that into consideration when buying (and someday selling) the book. Unless of cource you KNOW your NEVER going to sell. The higher the profile / dollar amount, the higher the degree of a (possible?) dilemma.