The Wheels Are In Motion 10 10

[jbud73]

As always, there's one side, the other side and, the truth - which usually falls somewhere in between. You know its sad, but most of the BSD's I've met in this business are some of the most cuniving, cut throat, down right dishonest ppl you would ever wanna meet. Its really sad that alot of the cream at the top of this hobby is sour. I wonder if the environment breeds the ppl, or vice versa. Think about the mentality that is behind the original, "wheels are in motion outburst" and the kindergarden chest thumping of Brulato's imfamous post a few months ago. HOWEVER HAVING SAID THAT - I HAVE NEVER DEALT WITH METROPOLIS ON A MAJOR TRANSACTION SO I CANNOT PERSONALLY SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THEIR BUSINESS TACTICS - to do so would be hypocritical.

 

However, in metros defense I have seen this over addiction in collectors as well - the step over everyone in pursuit of your own goals etc harrassment of sellers at shows etc etc, as laid out by Vince, yes believe me this exists. OF COURSE HAVING NEVER MET OR DIRECTLY CORRESPONDED WITH IAN I CAN'T SAY WITH CERTAINTY IF HE DISPLAYS THIS LACK OF CANDOUR BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.

 

Gentlemen, I think maybe it is time to take this behind closed doors - though I will say that the "if you say one more thing about me I won't sell you the book mentality is childish as well." It could very well be a childish response to a childish harrassment by a slighty disjointed collector, at this point who knows.

 

I guess I'm just glad that my collecting goals are rather simple - A solid complete run of Batman and Uncanny X-Men, you'd have to have alot of wheels in motion to stop that as I'm colse to finishing the X-men and will PATIENTLY be buying a Bat book once ever month or so for he next few years with no sense of urgency and alot of humility.

[Joanna]

Do you guys remember awhile back when a customer wrote to one of our forum members claiming that she was his "master"? That's what this reminds me of a little bit.

 

Ian has tunnel-vision when it comes to the missing books. He's worked for decades on the collection, and there are so few titles left he can taste the finish line. I can only imagine what that would feel like. I would liken it to writing an epic novel you'd spent years working on, and realizing you only had a chapter or two left to write. Or a marathon runner finally seeing the stadium. Now put a roadblock in front of that author or runner and watch them have a breakdown.

 

But much as I can sympathize with Ian's goals, I can see Metro's point very clearly. When I sold on ebay (and naturally, I compare my sales of low to mid-grade DCs to Metro's business, hahahaha) I generally got along great with all of my customers. But there were a couple that drove me nuts. I had people demand that I sell them books at a deep discount, and calling me names when I refused. One man gave me a mathematical formula 'proving' that his offer was the best possible price I could get. I told him that I had paid more for the book than his formula, so no deal. He explained that "that has nothing to do with it!" As someone looking for a profit, it had a whole lot to do with it from my POV. I said no again and he sent me a very nasty email, threatening to get everyone to boycott my auctions. Yeah, right, like I mattered to anyone on ebay, other than those looking for some fun readers.

 

I had another guy make several buys then gradually back out on all of them after I'd jumped through hoops to fit his exacting shipping needs. I had people email me using incomprehensible shorthand code (I curse all people who cannot seem to write out a single word, but are compelled instead to use only double letter codes & numerals with no punctuation. "I wt 2 by ur bk hw $" Speak English, ya freak!).

 

In short, there were some deals that went sour despite my best intentions. I would bend and bend and bend but at some point, you have to stop bending or you will break. I have to admit that as compelling as Ian's search for DCs is, were I in charge at Metro, I would probably sell to the other buyer (Unless Ian offered me a ton of cash). I just wouldn't want the hastles anymore.

 

It's a difficult situation, and it's easy to see both sides. But in the end, Ian wants to achieve his goals and Metro wants to serve their business. Both parties will have to figure out what decisions will help them the most. I wish you both the wisdom to do so.

 

-- Joanna

 

[Aman619]

okay... gotcha

I forgot the England factor and after trying 2/4/04 in my head, it was still tomorrow! Except in jolly old England. So after coming on here ane making nice, privately Vincent has still keeping the wheels in motion??

 

that really sucks. Guess we'll just have to wait for V to come on here again and explain this away. So lets not jump to comclusions: many here were pretty quick to see it "both ways" last time remember? But this will be hard for even The Great Vincino to extract himself from.

.. not saying its inconceivable that he can, mind you.....

 

 

well.. for those of you scoring at home, there it was-- the V rebuttal, right on time, and quite a nice one at that, I might add. Nicely covered the bases. Layed out quite a believable scenario. No undue emotion. No threats. Vinnie's like the Bill Clinton of Comics! The Teflon dealer. Very impressive.

 

I'm being overly facetious....

Obviously we see yet AGAIN, that there is another side to every story. sigh...

I STILL think Vinnie will give the dam book to Ian someday.... and cant we all just get along???

[Bonds25]

After reading Metropolis' reply, I think I can honestly feel comfortable in saying " off Ian!!" Quit yer whining and get over your obsessive quest to have every DC comic ever made. In time I'm sure you will complete your run of DC books, but it doesn't have to be completed the way you're going about it.

[BachelorOfComix]

After reading Metropolis' reply, I think I can honestly feel comfortable in saying " off Ian!!" Quit yer whining and get over your obsessive quest to have every DC comic ever made. In time I'm sure you will complete your run of DC books, but it doesn't have to be completed the way you're going about it.

[chrisco37]

After reading Metropolis' reply, I think I can honestly feel comfortable in saying " off Ian!!" Quit yer whining and get over your obsessive quest to have every DC comic ever made. In time I'm sure you will complete your run of DC books, but it doesn't have to be completed the way you're going about it.

 

Can I have some of that popcorn, BOC?

[The_End_At_Last]

Looking at this carefully, I can see that from a business point of view, Metroplis are of course making all the right decisions. Why ?

 

(1) They know that Ian desperately needs this book

(2) They know that it is very unlikely that anyone else (that is, collectors who own the remaining 6 copies) would want to sell it

(3) They know that the amount of future business that they will do with Ian is rather limited - after all he only has 30-odd left to complete his DC collection

 

Thus the correct course of action is to buy the book, say to Ian that he has another seller interested (whether true or not), then SIT on it. Tell Ian he might sell it to him. Make Ian sweat it out. Occasionally have some 'friendly' discussion with Ian about a possible price.

 

After about a couple of months of this, Metroplis will sell Ian the book for some outrageous price, maximising $$$ from a business point of view.

 

And the seller that Ian 'allegedly' brow-beated ? Is he at blame in all of this? Not really. He obviously was aware of the Ian-Metropolis situation, and worked out that he could get more by selling to Metroplis rather than to Ian directly because he knows that Metropolis will sting Ian for a much bigger amount. Again a purely business arrangement.

 

Now whether Metroplis will get a warm feeling about this - of course. That's all part of the game. Most definitely Metroplis wanted Ian to say his peice on the boards so that they could respond so convincingly. Business is business - but getting fun out of it makes it all the more sweeter.

 

Ian - you will get that book - but only at the price and time of Metroplis's choosing. Just put it down to experience.

[JohnBull]

Not sure I agree with all that, but it's an interesting point. Whatever, it has to be said that when someone posts a "200 and odd DC's to go" message on these boards in order to enlist the help of others, it does also leave them open to paying through the nose for difficult items on the want list. How many people are keeping their eyes open for a Buzzy 70 now, when they didn't even know of the books existence a few months ago ? How many of those people would be prepared to sell it at guide (maybe 20 dollars) and how many would try for closer to $500

[chrisco37]

How many of those people would be prepared to sell it at guide (maybe 20 dollars) and how many would try for closer to $500

 

I heard that the # would be closer to 1K (more likely, over that figure). Talked to a dealer about it this past weekend.

 

And, no! Not to snatch it from Ian's clutches! Just b/c I was curious if people were even aware of this book. Like you said 'GP', I had never even heard about it until Ian began his posting.

 

Chris

[OldSchoolTerry]

Maybe we should contact MTV, and see if they'd be interested in a BSD Comic Collector celebrity deathmatch episode between Ian and Metro......

[joe_collector]

Ian, if what Metro is saying is true, and you're badmouthing and threatening them, take a deep breath and step back.

 

The squeaky wheel does get the grease, but if all four axles are screeching and sparks are flying out, then it's usually time for a new car.

[EwanUK]

I think "The End at Last" has a real good point here - and somewhat cynically in Metro's position, it's probably what any business person would contrive to do.

 

The ultimate expression of supply and demand - utterly minimal supply, massive and well documented demand... so yes, possibly a mistake for Ian to trust these boards with his quest in the first place. Which is a shame, because it was and still is genuinely fascinating.

 

However, it does concern me that someone could get SO obsessed about completing a collection. I don't know Ian personally, but I observed him "at work" on Sunday and I could instantly tell we had someone who was extremely driven, blindly self-important (and I don't mean that nastily) and highly expectant of others to subscribe to his agenda (three key attributes for success in the music business no doubt).

 

But what happens when the quest is complete? Will these boards be picking up the pieces of a man suffering from the biggest anti-climax in his life? Where does Ian go then?

 

I hope Ian does get his way in this case, but one wonders what would have happened if Double Action 2 - or even Buzzy 70, or any comic only had ONE copy in existence... or perhaps even, none at all...

[kryptonitecomics]

Maybe we should contact MTV, and see if they'd be interested in a BSD Comic Collector celebrity deathmatch episode between Ian and Metro......

 

 

And in this corner weighing in at........

 

 

Very interesting post from Metro. I am on the fence on this one as I see both sides. I will still continue to assist Ian in his hunt for a complete run of DC's and I certainly would not scratch Metropolis off my dealers list due to these posts.

[awe4one]

I don't really care about the whole Ian/Metro feud or even someone completing the damn collection anymore....kind of sick of hearing about it constantly......

 

Jim

[Darthdiesel]

I don't really care about the whole Ian/Metro feud or even someone completing the damn collection anymore....kind of sick of hearing about it constantly......

 

Jim

 

Ditto - I'm still waiting for a Metro pic with Vince holding all his copies of Double Action 2, but now Vince needs to get into a Batman or Superman costume

[Bullet123]

I have an ethical question for both Vince and Ian Which one of you was contacted first by the seller? If it was you Vince, then you have every right to buy the book and maximize the profit, even if it is simply by holding IAN over a barrel. However, if it was IAN first and you second, and you knew that, the right thing to do IMO would have been to simply state to the seller that he would probably be best served by dealing with IAN. Why must every book be a opportunity to squeeze a profit out of it? You have thousands of books that you can worry about maximizing profit on. IMO every once in a while, at least in my business, I do the right thing by my customer regardless of profit margin beacuse sometimes the right thing pays you back more profitably than the profit thing Just an obsevation

[burntboy]

Ian; do you know what the comic sold for?? for sure??

 

i haven't gotten through the entire thread yet, so i don't know if Vincent or Joe have come on to speak, but based on what i've seen so far, this is disturbing.

 

i think it's safe to say that most of comicdom would love to see you fulfill this impossible dream (Robert Goulet singing here.............. ) quite frankly, everytime i think about it, i'm awestruck..........

[Red Hook]

 

You know, on one level I'm really worn out by this, and can see the two sides to this thing.

 

But in my gut, if it was within my power, I'd pluck that book right out of Vincent's hands and present it to Ian. The man is on a QUEST! It has caught the imagination of many of us here on the board. I can honestly understand Ian's aggressiveness and pushiness now that he is so close to completing this fabulous accomplishment. Within the context of the hobby, this is one of the great feats of all time. He knows damn well those last remaining books aren't going to just drop into his lap, giftwrapped by some benificent dealer.

 

Metropolis sought revenge. Please don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.

 

I know V is sorry about what he said. He's damn sorry his words were made public. Actions speak even louder than words. The wheels were definitely in motion. They rolled right over Ian this time.

 

They say that your ethics are defined by your behavior when you think no one is watching. That original written threat (which was never meant to be made public) to Ian was a clear exposure of the lack of ethics at play here.

 

The other thing is, can you imagine the great PR that Metropolis would have garnered, if they had truly risen above this and EVEN AT THIS STAGE, helped Ian out?

 

Metropolis has taken much more of a hit in the PR department than they seem to realize. Good PR is not something you can necessarily put a price on. You have to take the opportunity when it presents itself to you. I was at the Big Apple Con in January and would not even APPROACH Metropolis' booth. Not that they need my money, but I do believe in karma.

 

This latest incident wasn't just business. It was as personal as it gets. Don't run that crapola by us, please. Taking into account your recent history with each other, and the context of the deal that just went down, you must really thing us simpletons to believe it was just another profit/loss consideration to make the deal and undercut Ian.

 

And it just keeps hitting home, that this business just seems infested with a very large proportion of super-creepy personalities in sales positions. B-Bob not included.

 

Ian, keep posting. Keep complaining. Keep fighting. Just play your cards a little closer.

[burntboy]

well i finally got to the end and have to say that i was impressed by vincent's detailed (and seemingly, heartfelt) response. on the surface - hard to argue with his points.

 

but, as red so eloquently put it, "they say that your ethics are defined by your behavior when you think no one is watching. that original written threat (which was never meant to be made public) to Ian was a clear exposure of the lack of ethics at play here".

 

perhaps yes, perhaps no, but it does call much of what vincent has said into question (IMO).

 

don't know ian from a hole in the ground and have had some small pleasant dealings with Metro (seems like a class act to me.) just hope this can end mutually satisfactorily

[Solar]

I've never dealt with either party involved, but from reading this arguement from the beginning, I'd say Redhook nailed it. Are we supposed to forget the fact that Vincent stated "The wheels are in motion" while he proceeds to compete with Ian on the one book that truly has a chance of stopping the completion of his goal? Seems too much of a coincidence to me. Even if it is, Metro should, from a PR standpoint, just step the hell aside on this book. It's not worth jeprodizing a reputation over.