Changes to Probation List and Hall Of SHame List

[thirdgreenham]

I don't know how you get into the Hall Of Shame, and I'm not sure what to suggest to change the rules. I don't think Alleybat is on the same level as DrFrankenstein, and neither are similar to CapFreak's case. Although it's a bit of work, perhaps having a short description of the issue, beside the individual's name. Also have a link to the main infraction, if possible.

 

I dunno, just a suggestion. :shrug:

 

Andy

[Tsimanga]

People are not getting it. They have not gotten it when I was posting in the Forum Marketplace. They are not getting it now.

 

Many have not even gotten the title of the thread.

 

I have been laying clues all over the place. But it seems knee-jerk is the most popular reaction (sorry about that, although I anticipate knee-jerk reactions to that statement.)

 

I would HOPE that after the time I have been here folks know I am an honest and fair person. Maybe goofy at times. Maybe too many haikus at times. Maybe too much sake. But certainly, I hope, not a threat. I don't sell often but when I do I have had no complaints. I even take time to digitally manipulate my scans so they more closely resemble the original, for better or for worse from the original scans.

 

What I have been talking about all along is the rules and criteria setup for the Probation and HOS (especially HOS) lists. And if we should have changes or additional lists. Yes, that is work. It certainly takes more effort than clicking on a poll option. I volunteered to help in it. I am a good candidate because I have been here for a long time and also do not sell or buy much. Since this is Divad's idea originally I would be happy to work with him on it.

 

I did a search on Muscleshark. Many of the posts I saw were about his issues with Conner and how he was the first to point him out. Danged if I can find what he did wrong. (I assume he did do something wrong so please point me to the posts?)

 

What I am really concerned about is that no one seems to want to discuss or consider changes and clarifications to the lists based on Frankenstein's actions. I think it is apparent that the rules as stated are lacking.

 

One of Steinbeck's (a favorite author of mine) major themes in his novel IN DUBIOUS BATTLE was "MOB". Mob mentality. I have to question mob mentality here.

 

People seem intent on repeating their grievances but how many seem to be willing to explore the current list rules and help change them?

 

The Muscleshark thread where he blew up the first time was locked & deleted after he received his strike. So, yes, you can safely "assume" that he did something (actually a lot of things) wrong.

 

The purpose of the Probation List & Hall of Shame is to out the people who engage in dishonest behaviour - to warn other board members about entering into transactions with scammers & crooks - and to protect this community as a whole. That's how it works right now - and that's how it's worked since it was introduced.

 

[font:Arial Black]Dr. Frankenstein has engaged in fradulent behaviour on the boards, and has tried to silence his critics through threats of physical violence and litigation. He has shown no remorse, has offered no apologies or explanations, and has repeatedly shown that he considers himself above any sort of reproach.[/font]

 

With that in mind, how is adding him to the Hall of Shame not the correct course of action?

 

 

 

I agree with all that. It seems to me all Frankenstiens done since this whole things started was poorly try to cover up his mistakes and then attempt to make jokes of all of it. Then he takes a week off the boards and hoped everything blew over while he was gone. Now he's been back making more jokes and light of the whole situation. IMO the worst part of all of this is how he handled the situation... not so much of what he did.

[lizards2]

Great post.

 

No offense to the original complainant, but the book was a very questionable 9.2 in the first place.

 

Wow - not a single comment - am I the only one here that walks away from a book because I don't agree with the grade? Or do you all buy, just to complain later?

 

I'm not defending Frank at all, just the witch-hunt process that this condemnation has turned out to be.

[Beau]

The Muscleshark thread where he blew up the first time was locked & deleted after he received his strike. So, yes, you can safely "assume" that he did something (actually a lot of things) wrong.

 

The purpose of the Probation List & Hall of Shame is to out the people who engage in dishonest behaviour - to warn other board members about entering into transactions with scammers & crooks - and to protect this community as a whole. That's how it works right now - and that's how it's worked since it was introduced.

 

Dr. Frankenstein has engaged in fradulent behaviour on the boards, and has tried to silence his critics through threats of physical violence and litigation. He has shown no remorse, has offered no apologies or explanations, and has repeatedly shown that he considers himself above any sort of reproach.

 

With that in mind, how is adding him to the Hall of Shame not the correct course of action?

 

I guess I should weigh in here, since I was a part of that thread. Muscleshark was calling everyone who disagreed with him a female nether part, and saying that we were cowards because we were 'hiding behind our computers'. I posted my full name, address, & phone number, and invited him to utilize them if he felt so inclined. He did call, and once he got done cursing at me and settled down a bit, we had a great talk. I have to give him kudos for that, because I really tore into him in that thread. I wish it hadn't been deleted, that was some of my finest work

 

 

Frank is a decent human being once you actually talk to him, but I can't say that his induction to the HoS is totally unwarranted. When a seller's first recourse to an unsatisfactory deal is to threaten you with grievous bodily harm (with a topping of him non-consensually sexing up your mother), I'd kind of like to know of that sort of thing beforehand.

 

 

[mschmidt]

The Muscleshark thread where he blew up the first time was locked & deleted after he received his strike. So, yes, you can safely "assume" that he did something (actually a lot of things) wrong.

 

The purpose of the Probation List & Hall of Shame is to out the people who engage in dishonest behaviour - to warn other board members about entering into transactions with scammers & crooks - and to protect this community as a whole. That's how it works right now - and that's how it's worked since it was introduced.

 

Dr. Frankenstein has engaged in fradulent behaviour on the boards, and has tried to silence his critics through threats of physical violence and litigation. He has shown no remorse, has offered no apologies or explanations, and has repeatedly shown that he considers himself above any sort of reproach.

 

With that in mind, how is adding him to the Hall of Shame not the correct course of action?

 

I guess I should weigh in here, since I was a part of that thread. Muscleshark was calling everyone who disagreed with him a female nether part, and saying that we were cowards because we were 'hiding behind our computers'. I posted my full name, address, & phone number, and invited him to utilize them if he felt so inclined. He did call, and once he got done cursing at me and settled down a bit, we had a great talk. I have to give him kudos for that, because I really tore into him in that thread. I wish it hadn't been deleted, that was some of my finest work

 

 

Frank is a decent human being once you actually talk to him, but I can't say that his induction to the HoS is totally unwarranted. When a seller's first recourse to an unsatisfactory deal is to threaten you with grievous bodily harm (with a topping of him non-consensually sexing up your mother), I'd kind of like to know of that sort of thing beforehand.

 

 

So, perhaps he needs to go into the Hall of "People You Don't Want Non-Consensually Sexing Up Your Mother"?

[Beau]

So, perhaps he needs to go into the Hall of "People You Don't Want Non-Consensually Sexing Up Your Mother"?

 

That, or the Hall of "Bring a gun to the con in case some musclehead takes forum stuff way too seriously".

 

Either one, I'm easy (like my mom, apparently).

[lizards2]

The Muscleshark thread where he blew up the first time was locked & deleted after he received his strike. So, yes, you can safely "assume" that he did something (actually a lot of things) wrong.

 

The purpose of the Probation List & Hall of Shame is to out the people who engage in dishonest behaviour - to warn other board members about entering into transactions with scammers & crooks - and to protect this community as a whole. That's how it works right now - and that's how it's worked since it was introduced.

 

Dr. Frankenstein has engaged in fradulent behaviour on the boards, and has tried to silence his critics through threats of physical violence and litigation. He has shown no remorse, has offered no apologies or explanations, and has repeatedly shown that he considers himself above any sort of reproach.

 

With that in mind, how is adding him to the Hall of Shame not the correct course of action?

 

I guess I should weigh in here, since I was a part of that thread. Muscleshark was calling everyone who disagreed with him a female nether part, and saying that we were cowards because we were 'hiding behind our computers'. I posted my full name, address, & phone number, and invited him to utilize them if he felt so inclined. He did call, and once he got done cursing at me and settled down a bit, we had a great talk. I have to give him kudos for that, because I really tore into him in that thread. I wish it hadn't been deleted, that was some of my finest work

 

 

Frank is a decent human being once you actually talk to him, but I can't say that his induction to the HoS is totally unwarranted. When a seller's first recourse to an unsatisfactory deal is to threaten you with grievous bodily harm (with a topping of him non-consensually sexing up your mother), I'd kind of like to know of that sort of thing beforehand.

 

 

So, perhaps he needs to go into the Hall of "People You Don't Want Non-Consensually Sexing Up Your Mother"?

 

So, prejudiced against the MILF-rapers too? mschmidt - I am warming up to you in a non threatening way. Very scary.

[Beau]

So, prejudiced against the MILF-rapers too? mschmidt - I am warming up to you in a non threatening way. Very scary.

 

Just don't call him "Miss Schmidt". That was Muscleshark's mistake.

[divad]

And that's the crux of the biscuit . . . many Boardies over the years have been caught with their pants down - I won't bother to name names, but the ones who are still here stood up, acknowledged the issue raised, and made their apologies (without going freakin' ballistic).

 

So you are saying that the dealings of AlleyBat and the like are equal to "going freakin' ballistic"? And to be honest I have seen a lot more ballistic than I did from Frankie's tirade. Still confuse-ed.

 

Bernie Madoff equal to Al Capone? Not the point . . .

[divad]

Hey Divad. Why does the HOS list not include any of the members know ebay seller ids . Would that not help out anyone on the boards who look for books on ebay. Or is it because they can change user ids faster than they can change clothes?

 

This is not eBay . . . This is OUR neighborhood

[lizards2]

So, prejudiced against the MILF-rapers too? mschmidt - I am warming up to you in a non threatening way. Very scary.

 

Just don't call him "Miss Schmidt". That was Muscleshark's mistake.

Hot damn - knock off the sexual imagery...., I'm starting to dream of stroking that upright hair........, STOP IT Beau!!!!

[PovertyRow]

IMO the worst part of all of this is how he handled the situation... not so much of what he did.

 

This is what troubles me. The "how he handled the situation... not so much of what he did."

 

When we look at AlleyBat what did he do? a $4000 scam.

 

Conner? Hijacking Steve B's business cell phone and costing him who knows what in business and explanations after Steve took him under his wing. As well as several bad deals.

 

ComicSupply - multiple transgressions, including a measly $10 one I never reported as it was back in the day when Russ was still OK. Will never see that $10 now. Could buy me a couple of Chinatown Lunches if I add a buck or two.

 

These transgressions seem to me far worse than how he handled it. But I do understand the POTENTIAL (which is why either alternative lists or expansion of the rules is needed).

 

BEYOND THAT

 

I tried looking up some of the others just on the HOS beyond Alley, Conner and Russ (forget Probation) but it was near impossible.

 

SO, MY FIRST SUGGESTION.

 

Let's see if Arch can create a new Forum called simply PROBATION/HOS (or similar).

 

We go there. We start a NEW thread with the name of the person under scrutiny. Hopefully all discussions (or most) will take place there. Then, when we see a name on the lists we can hit that thread and seek the name.

 

I would be happy to help ferret out relevant posts etc. for folks already on it. But as it stands now we have a list and names and no explanations.

 

But as it stands now, having everyone,. PL and HOS glommed under a "Probation Discussion" is ridiculous once a little time goes by.

 

If we can isolate a user on a list, we can isolate them in a thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lizards2]

Hey Divad. Why does the HOS list not include any of the members know ebay seller ids . Would that not help out anyone on the boards who look for books on ebay. Or is it because they can change user ids faster than they can change clothes?

 

This is not eBay . . . This is OUR neighborhood

 

One slave bracelet, two slave bracelets, three slave bracelets........., DIVAD - did you pull another scat job in the shower???

[divad]

This is what it's always been:

 

5/3/10 PROBATION LIST UPDATE

 

THE HALL OF SHAME

 

The following Board Members have been elected by the community to the

Probation List's "Hall of Shame" for gross misconduct as members in the

Marketplace Forum:

[divad]

And similarly:

 

The following Board Members are currently on "Probation" for failure to complete

a Marketplace Forum transaction in good faith after one month's time:

 

We kept it simple for a reason.

[PovertyRow]

This is what it's always been:

 

5/3/10 PROBATION LIST UPDATE

 

THE HALL OF SHAME

 

The following Board Members have been elected by the community to the

Probation List's "Hall of Shame" for gross misconduct as members in the

Marketplace Forum:

 

Define "Gross Misconduct".

 

Lettuce consider the legal definition of "obscenity":

 

For something to be "obscene" it must be shown that the average person, applying contemporary community standards and viewing the material as a whole, would find (1) that the work appeals predominantly to "prurient" interest; (2) that it depicts or describes sexual conduct in a patently offensive way; and (3) that it lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value.

 

So we have a legal definition that is hinged on:

 

"contemporary community standards"

"prurient"

"patently offensive" (my emphasis on "patently"

"lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value" (my emphasis on "serious")

 

.Many of the posts on these boards would fall under the legal definition of "obscene". But I see no action taken.

 

The term "gross misconduct" seems equally "loose" - that is, it actually has no definition. Or has it been defined and I missed it?

 

We need MUCH better than this for the lists.

 

Again, I will be happy to devote time and effort to creating a better criteria than we have. But what we have now is to my view, falling apart.

[PovertyRow]

And similarly:

 

The following Board Members are currently on "Probation" for failure to complete

a Marketplace Forum transaction in good faith after one month's time:

 

We kept it simple for a reason.

 

See? Now THAT makes sense, is specific and works.

 

But thw way HOS is setup is far from simple and specific. Again, I offer my assist.

[Beau]

Lettuce consider the legal definition of "obscenity":

 

Does anally violating my 72-YO mother fit the bill? I was promised that by Muscleshark. Thankfully, my mom's rectum is intact, but still....

[Paratrooper]

Lettuce consider the legal definition of "obscenity":

 

Does anally violating my 72-YO mother fit the bill? I was promised that by Muscleshark. Thankfully, my mom's rectum is intact, but still....

 

Man, Muscleshark/Frankenstein....we have some class acts on this forum. How do people get along in society behaving like they do?

[iggy]

What a disgusting creep! If he delivered that message via PM, then he should be banned.