Best way to buy a big book like Batman 1?

[G.A.tor]

 

maybe sellers, like you, price their copies because they don't want to sell, but would "if" they found someone to pay that premium...

 

(thumbs u

 

Not in a hurry to sell.

 

I could price my action 1 at 120K, but no one is going to pay me that for it...sub 100K, sure, easy sell (as it was before the mil and 1.5 mil sales)...

 

 

I think that the $100K entry barrier for any copy of an Action #1 will change. It's just a matter of time.

 

True enough Bats #1 is an anomaly in that supply is greater than many other books from the same time period.

 

Again, it's just a matter of time.

 

agreed... but, with action 1, that has always been the trend... record sales have not had to of happened in the past, as the entry level point has been moving upward for years and years and will continue to , restored and unrestored copies ( and i suspect the same with tec 27)...

my opinion is not so with restored batman 1's and superman 1's (as mentioned, I have actually seen a price reduction in both, of late, all post "record sales")

 

from a buyers perspective, I would love for prices to continue to dip... but, as long as supply remains relatively constant, all we need is for demand to increase for prices to increase (thumbs u

[VintageComics]

 

maybe sellers, like you, price their copies because they don't want to sell, but would "if" they found someone to pay that premium...

 

(thumbs u

 

Not in a hurry to sell.

 

I could price my action 1 at 120K, but no one is going to pay me that for it...sub 100K, sure, easy sell (as it was before the mil and 1.5 mil sales)...

 

 

I think that the $100K entry barrier for any copy of an Action #1 will change. It's just a matter of time.

 

True enough Bats #1 is an anomaly in that supply is greater than many other books from the same time period.

 

Again, it's just a matter of time.

 

agreed... but, with action 1, that has always been the trend... record sales have not had to of happened in the past, as the entry level point has been moving upward for years and years and will continue to , restored and unrestored copies ( and i suspect the same with tec 27)...

my opinion is not so with restored batman 1's and superman 1's (as mentioned, I have actually seen a price reduction in both, of late, all post "record sales")

 

from a buyers perspective, I would love for prices to continue to dip... but, as long as supply remains relatively constant, all we need is for demand to increase for prices to increase (thumbs u

 

Rick, this upward trend has been normal for decades for any key book that still has relevant heroes or villains in it.

 

If so then it stands to reason that restored and unrestored books will move upwards as long as they are considered important books over the long haul...it's easy to take a little snippet out of time and say "this issue went down here" even if the book has generally been trending upwards much like you can't take one day out of a given stock to show a trend. Has Batman #1 or AF #15 or any other truly relevant key gone down ever?

 

What I see as the only thing that you and I are really discussing is not if larger sales will trickle down to lesser copies but when will they trickle down?

[Straw-Man]

I've been considering recently pulling some money out of savings and going for the big Kahuna, Batman 1. I'm thinking a mid-grade restored copy (w/o trimming) and was looking at monstercollectibles' copy on eBay right before the brouhaha started here about him sending restored books to PGX.

 

So short of checking eBay, Heritage, Metro, and Comiclink regularly, any advice?

 

well, you could send some restored books to cgc, hope they damage them [and accuse them of it, even if they don't], charge them 10 thou apiece for the damaged treasures, then use the dough to get a really nice copy.

[thedude]

I've been considering recently pulling some money out of savings and going for the big Kahuna, Batman 1. I'm thinking a mid-grade restored copy (w/o trimming) and was looking at monstercollectibles' copy on eBay right before the brouhaha started here about him sending restored books to PGX.

 

So short of checking eBay, Heritage, Metro, and Comiclink regularly, any advice?

 

well, you could send some restored books to cgc, hope they damage them [and accuse them of it, even if they don't], charge them 10 thou apiece for the damaged treasures, then use the dough to get a really nice copy.

 

[G.A.tor]

We have seen af15 prices dipping for over a year now....

 

We have seen batman 1 restored and superman 1 restored prices dipping for the better part of a year now....

 

Is this just price correction? Possibly...is it economy? Maybe (though based on high grade unrestored sales, I would say doubtful)

 

The bottom line is all markets are cyclical... The recent record sales have not helped lower/mid grade restored counterparts at all (specifically batman 1 and supes 1)...so my premise and response to roy was there is no immediate (or even medium) return to be had just because you own a mid grade restored bat 1 right now...in fact, if any short term conclusion were to be drawn is that it is actually "hurting" the prices of those restored books (but only short term imo)

 

Now the general cycle is that with an increase in demand and a relative constant supply a books' price will increase...but this occurance is independent of record sales of high(er) grade unrestored mega keys... In other words I don't think these sales are helping demand and may in fact be hurting demand for restored lower/mid grade bat 1 as evidenced by stagnant sales and prices (and even supported by decreasing rest supe 1 sale prices)

 

It is that simple, I believe...but this is just my opinion based on market observations

 

Will prices stay down forever, I suspect not ... So now is probably a Great time to buy. (thumbs u

[ciorac]

now, comparable unrestored copies, sure, they are affected, and to a lessor degree, all unrestored copies have been affected (as evidenced by 3.0 action 1 sale, and 6.0 tec 27 sale)... but not uncompareable restored copies... empirical evidence supports my position (thumbs u

 

Interesting.

 

AF #15 sales may have pulled back by as much as 30% (at most, and likely a greater percentage of pullback for the more expensive copies than for the more affordable ones) but that was after they had doubled or already tripled after that $200K sale so a 6.0 copy that sold for $8K 3 years ago is now still a $18-20K book even though it may have been a $25K book a year ago.

 

As far as restored vs unrestored you make it sound like there is no correlation between the two when an unrestored copy always fetches either

 

1) a percentage of the unrestored price

2) a price that is related to what the book was when it was unrestored

 

In both cases the price of the restored book is affected upwards.

 

As far as your Action #1 goes I would guess that the timing of when the sales occurred (both the record price and your book relative to each other) would have some effect on how quickly prices are affected of all undercopies.

 

I have trouble believing that a string of record sales of Action #1 in all unrestored grades would not affect restored copies at some point. Just not as fast as something more liquid and easier to attain like an AF #15 but I believe that they will all be effected.

 

It may just be a slower movement because of how few copies of Action #1 change hands, how expensive they are even for an entry level book and how shallow the buying pool is for a price that starts at $100K for an entry level book (compared to $1K for an AF #15).

 

in theory, I would agree...restored have always been a % of unrestored (I am obviously not trying to make it sound like there is no correlation, EVERYONE knows there is a correlation )... but in practical application, it doesn't (or at least hasn't) translated into increasing the restored % ...in fact, I would say that now, the restored % is actually less, given that the unrestored "value" has been increasing so much... so, still a function, but at the moment, a decreasing % function (thumbs u

 

again, real tough to compare batman 1 to action 1 or even tec 27... supply/demand is more of the price determination ... there are,relatively speaking, a ton of batman 1 copies (restored) available in the market... same with superman 1...prices, have actually fallen a bit on restored supes 1, since the action 1 sales, and my guess is that if folks actually no reserve auctioned their batman 1's (restored copies mind you, I am not talking unrestored), we would see similar results (note, there are always exceptions to every rule)... and, as mentioned, show me a mid grade restored batman 1 that has sold at a "record" price...heck, show me one that has sold "period" at current/previous full asking price...

 

maybe sellers, like you, price their copies because they don't want to sell, but would "if" they found someone to pay that premium...

 

I could price my action 1 at 120K, but no one is going to pay me that for it...sub 100K, sure, easy sell (as it was before the mil and 1.5 mil sales)...

 

 

I have to agree with Roy on this one Gator. You're just simply wrong.

 

You haven't been selling comics long enough to have seen the trends over the last 25 years.

 

When AF 15 hit a record high in the early 90s, it did dramatically effect the price of all copies. There were corrections downward later, of course. What market doesn't have this? But, I hasten to add, the correction down still left the net price much higher than prior to the sale.

 

I could buy 10 restored Batman #1s in 1992 for $5000 each. Did it in fact. Find me one now.

 

Unrestored, it is even a greater gap. I could buy VGs for $10,000. Find me one like that now.

 

ALL copies have increased in value, and will continue to.

 

And to your other point, every mid grade Batman 1 has sold for a "record price" over the past several years. You've set some of those records. I'm astonished at what you, and others have paid/sold copies for recently Simply astonished.

[Straw-Man]

 

I have to agree with Roy on this one Gator. You're just simple-minded.

 

 

that's just mean.

[Timely]

 

I have to agree with Roy on this one Gator. You're just simple-minded.

 

 

that's just mean.

 

[G.A.tor]

Bill... You are missing the point... I simply responded to roy's assertion that a record sale of batman 1 in cgc 9.0 today will make his mid grade restored copy increase in price and that is simply not the reality of the current market...

 

I made no comment about the evolution and growth of the market over the past 25 years... Duh everyone has seen the growth...

 

The dynamic I am specifically commenting on is the assumption that these million $ sales have magically pulled up the value of restored mid grade keys when current sales of restored supes 1 and restored bat 1's support just the opposite ...

 

Long term it is likely all books will increase in value if demand increases... How's that for simple minded

[seank]

Bill... You are missing the point... I simply responded to roy's assertion that a record sale of batman 1 in cgc 9.0 today will make his mid grade restored copy increase in price and that is simply not the reality of the current market...

 

I made no comment about the evolution and growth of the market over the past 25 years... Duh everyone has seen the growth...

 

The dynamic I am specifically commenting on is the assumption that these million $ sales have magically pulled up the value of restored mid grade keys when current sales of restored supes 1 and restored bat 1's support just the opposite ...

 

Long term it is likely all books will increase in value if demand increases... How's that for simple minded

 

What about the long-term value of a mid-grade restored Batman 1. I tend to buy and hold, so is it something that will hold value over 10 years? 20 years? Or is it going to be something that will lose value in the future? (And I know I could probably get a better return on my $$ via an index fund or something like that, but index funds don't have the wow factor of a Batman 1.)

[nearmint]

I agree with every one of you. Now who's going to lend me 30K?

 

 

[G.A.tor]

Long term I think any batman 1 (restored or unrestored) bought at or below FMV has a great chance at being more valuable in the future...but I assume most every one thinks that (thumbs u

[VintageComics]

Bill... You are missing the point... I simply responded to roy's assertion that a record sale of batman 1 in cgc 9.0 today will make his mid grade restored copy increase in price and that is simply not the reality of the current market...

 

I made no comment about the evolution and growth of the market over the past 25 years... Duh everyone has seen the growth...

 

The dynamic I am specifically commenting on is the assumption that these million $ sales have magically pulled up the value of restored mid grade keys when current sales of restored supes 1 and restored bat 1's support just the opposite ...

 

Long term it is likely all books will increase in value if demand increases... How's that for simple minded

 

Like I said, not if...when.

 

[Silver Surfer]

 

I have to agree with Roy on this one Gator. You're just simple-minded.

 

 

that's just mean.

 

Yeah but that's what good friends are for, tough love.

[G.A.tor]

Bill... You are missing the point... I simply responded to roy's assertion that a record sale of batman 1 in cgc 9.0 today will make his mid grade restored copy increase in price and that is simply not the reality of the current market...

 

I made no comment about the evolution and growth of the market over the past 25 years... Duh everyone has seen the growth...

 

The dynamic I am specifically commenting on is the assumption that these million $ sales have magically pulled up the value of restored mid grade keys when current sales of restored supes 1 and restored bat 1's support just the opposite ...

 

Long term it is likely all books will increase in value if demand increases... How's that for simple minded

 

Like I said, not if...when.

 

well sure...but the "when" still occurs with or without the million $ sales (thumbs u

[VintageComics]

Bill... You are missing the point... I simply responded to roy's assertion that a record sale of batman 1 in cgc 9.0 today will make his mid grade restored copy increase in price and that is simply not the reality of the current market...

 

I made no comment about the evolution and growth of the market over the past 25 years... Duh everyone has seen the growth...

 

The dynamic I am specifically commenting on is the assumption that these million $ sales have magically pulled up the value of restored mid grade keys when current sales of restored supes 1 and restored bat 1's support just the opposite ...

 

Long term it is likely all books will increase in value if demand increases... How's that for simple minded

 

Like I said, not if...when.

 

well sure...but the "when" still occurs with or without the million $ sales (thumbs u

 

So I'm saying that the big sales speed up the "when". You say they don't.

 

Fair enough.

 

(thumbs u

[nearmint]

Couple long-haired hippies arguing about funny books.

[G.A.tor]

Bill... You are missing the point... I simply responded to roy's assertion that a record sale of batman 1 in cgc 9.0 today will make his mid grade restored copy increase in price and that is simply not the reality of the current market...

 

I made no comment about the evolution and growth of the market over the past 25 years... Duh everyone has seen the growth...

 

The dynamic I am specifically commenting on is the assumption that these million $ sales have magically pulled up the value of restored mid grade keys when current sales of restored supes 1 and restored bat 1's support just the opposite ...

 

Long term it is likely all books will increase in value if demand increases... How's that for simple minded

 

Like I said, not if...when.

 

well sure...but the "when" still occurs with or without the million $ sales (thumbs u

 

So I'm saying that the big sales speed up the "when". You say they don't.

 

Fair enough.

 

(thumbs u

I guess maybe I am simple minded, as I am having a tough time expressing my thoughts...so let me slow it down...

 

they (big sales) speed up the "when" on comparable copies immediately...they even speed up the "when" for lower grade unrestored copies (as we have already seen in the action 1 3.0 and the tec 27 6.0 and many more behind the scene deals and offers I have heard) but what i am saying is that they have NOT sped up the "when" on mid grade restored copies outside of the big 2 (and even then, we didn't see an increase in tec 27 restored prices, and while we saw an increase in asking prices on several restored action 1's, the sales have obviously not motivated anyone to buy them, as they are all still available at rediculously inflated prices)...

 

in fact, just the OPPOSITE has occured, prices are DOWN on them (specifically batman 1 and superman 1, and all other non action 1 and tec 27 restored mid grade keys)... I can cite dozens of post million dollar sale examples... that IS my point... that right NOW, these sales are NOT helping those copies... long term "any" increasing sale will help (which is not a point I am aguing against )... that is the point Bill missed, and that is the point maybe you are not realizing I am trying to make

[G.A.tor]

and with that, is my "last" point I will make on it

[G.A.tor]

 

I have to agree with Roy on this one Gator. You're just simple-minded.

 

 

that's just mean.

 

Yeah but that's what good friends are for, tough love.

they know I love them like the brothers that , thank God I never had.... would have been nice if they understood the point I was trying to make