The Pre-Robin Tec Club 18 18

[woowoo]

Leroy

Yes when you bought the book front cover does look 3.5.

I now see it after press and its a HUGE upgrade diff so it should have went up in grade that's just crazy to leave it at 3.5

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, woowoo said:

Leroy

Yes when you bought the book front cover does look 3.5.

I now see it after press and its a HUGE upgrade diff so it should have went up in grade that's just crazy to leave it at 3.5

woowoo;

+1

I would agree with you 110% that there is a huge improvement in the book from when Leroy had initially purchased it. 

But what is becoming clearly obvious by now is that with a different grading team in place since last year, there has also been a significant shift in grading standards and/or in their focus on certain defects. 

For example, based upon your long-term experience in the hobby, do these 4 books appear to be only in G/VG 3.0 or VG 3.5 condition from your point of view:

1)  Detective 1 CGC 3.5 graded copy in the current CC auction  (Graded in December of 2016):

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=697754

2)  Detective 29 CGC 3.0 graded copy in the current CC auction  (Graded in August of 2016):

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=684452

3)  Detective 38 also CGC 3.0 graded copy in the current CC auction  (Graded in July of 2016):

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=676931

4)  Batman 1 CGC CGC 3.5 graded copy in the recent Heritage auction  (Graded in June of 2016):

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/batman-1-dc-1940-cgc-vg-35-off-white-pages/a/7158-91008.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

Of course, there could be significant technical defects which does not show up on cover scans, but that would be an amazing co-incidence that they would show up on all 4 of these books which have extraordinarily strong visual eye appeal relative to their assigned grades.  Or it could be that we are just showing our age as we are so used to the old school definition of condition grading as opposed to the ever shifting new generational definition of the unpublished grading standards used by CGC? 

[woowoo]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

woowoo;

+1

I would agree with you 110% that there is a huge improvement in the book from when Leroy had initially purchased it. 

But what is becoming clearly obvious by now is that with a different grading team in place since last year, there has also been a significant shift in grading standards and/or in their focus on certain defects. 

For example, based upon your long-term experience in the hobby, do these 4 books appear to be only in G/VG 3.0 or VG 3.5 condition from your point of view:

1)  Detective 1 CGC 3.5 graded copy in the current CC auction  (Graded in December of 2016):

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=697754

2)  Detective 29 CGC 3.0 graded copy in the current CC auction  (Graded in August of 2016):

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=684452

3)  Detective 38 also CGC 3.0 graded copy in the current CC auction  (Graded in July of 2016):

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=676931

4)  Batman 1 CGC CGC 3.5 graded copy in the recent Heritage auction  (Graded in June of 2016):

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/batman-1-dc-1940-cgc-vg-35-off-white-pages/a/7158-91008.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

Of course, there could be significant technical defects which does not show up on cover scans, but that would be an amazing co-incidence that they would show up on all 4 of these books which have extraordinarily strong visual eye appeal relative to their assigned grades.  Or it could be that we are just showing our age as we are so used to the old school definition of condition grading as opposed to the ever shifting new generational definition of the unpublished grading standards used by CGC? 

We are not wrong Looks like they are grading a 2017 book not a 1939/40 book. I say with everything the same the cover was upgraded a lot how can they not see that

[Gotham Kid]

This 31 didn't last that long on eBay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/252797107941?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Not a bad looking 1.0

Seller though is supposedly a doosh from what I've read ( hope I'm not mixing up the eBay name )

Edited March 4, 2017 by Gotham Kid

[Dark Knight]

1 minute ago, Gotham Kid said:

This 31 didn't last that long on eBay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/252797107941?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Not a bad looking 1.0

By a shady seller too!  That book has been around. I believe Bunky B used to own it at one point. I wonder if it sold since auction ended.

[lhcomics]

3 hours ago, Gotham Kid said:

This 31 didn't last that long on eBay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/252797107941?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Not a bad looking 1.0

Seller though is supposedly a doosh from what I've read ( hope I'm not mixing up the eBay name )

Nice sale and man look at the right side of the comic where you can see the 1st page. Now that is white pages! This sale gives me hope that one day I can get my $5K back I spent on my rag of a 31 about 5 years ago. 

[Gotham Kid]

Hmmm ... he also sold this 0.5 37

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Detective-Comics-37-Vol-1-CGC-0-5-Unrestored-Last-Solo-Batman-Original-1940-/252790897714?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=H7A7sikAtNa%2FHRaycnZmEu2LlQw%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Both Tecs "sold" the same day. While I can accept the 31 sale, the 37 has been listed on ebay for a few months now. Today a BIN. 

Edited March 4, 2017 by Gotham Kid

[Gotham Kid]

7 minutes ago, lhcomics said:

This sale gives me hope that one day I can get my $5K back I spent on my rag of a 31 about 5 years ago. 

Edited March 4, 2017 by Gotham Kid

[Zolnerowich]

On 3/3/2017 at 0:44 AM, lou_fine said:

Nothing at all to do with dry cleaned and pressing as they are 2 completely different copies. 

Probably a lot more to do with CGC's inconsistency in grading as the nicer and cleaner looking CGC 3.0 graded copy that is in CC's current auction was graded back in August of 2016.  Clearly an extremely unforgiving time for having your GA books graded as CGC was seemingly in a grading hissy fit for some apparent reason.  Just take a look at the equally visually appealing CGC 3.0 copy of Detective 38 in the current CC auction that also appears to have been graded extremely tightly back in July of 2016.  Or to the beautiful looking CGC 3.5 graded copy of Batman 1 that was graded back in June of 2016 and just auctioned off in last week's Heritage auction:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/batman-1-dc-1940-cgc-vg-35-off-white-pages/a/7158-91008.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Now compare that CGC 3.5 graded copy of Batman 1 to the unpressed copy of Detective 29 which was also given the exact same 3.5 grade:

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?referral=EAlist&id=685980&title=DETECTIVECOMICS

Doesn't take a rocket scientist or even a comic book expert to easily tell which copy looks nicer from a visual cover appearance point of view since we do not have the Graders' Notes handy.   

Just wondering: even with graders' notes in hand, is there sufficient fine-grained detail to really know how the final grade was determined?

 

[Mr bla bla]

On 3/3/2017 at 7:44 AM, lou_fine said:

Nothing at all to do with dry cleaned and pressing as they are 2 completely different copies. 

Probably a lot more to do with CGC's inconsistency in grading as the nicer and cleaner looking CGC 3.0 graded copy that is in CC's current auction was graded back in August of 2016.  Clearly an extremely unforgiving time for having your GA books graded as CGC was seemingly in a grading hissy fit for some apparent reason.  Just take a look at the equally visually appealing CGC 3.0 copy of Detective 38 in the current CC auction that also appears to have been graded extremely tightly back in July of 2016.  Or to the beautiful looking CGC 3.5 graded copy of Batman 1 that was graded back in June of 2016 and just auctioned off in last week's Heritage auction:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/batman-1-dc-1940-cgc-vg-35-off-white-pages/a/7158-91008.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Now compare that CGC 3.5 graded copy of Batman 1 to the unpressed copy of Detective 29 which was also given the exact same 3.5 grade:

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?referral=EAlist&id=685980&title=DETECTIVECOMICS

Doesn't take a rocket scientist or even a comic book expert to easily tell which copy looks nicer from a visual cover appearance point of view since we do not have the Graders' Notes handy.   

That difference Speaks for itself.

deeply worrying. Third party grading at its worst.

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, Mr bla bla said:

On 3/2/2017 at 10:44 PM, lou_fine said:

Nothing at all to do with dry cleaned and pressing as they are 2 completely different copies. 

 

Probably a lot more to do with CGC's inconsistency in grading as the nicer and cleaner looking CGC 3.0 graded copy that is in CC's current auction was graded back in August of 2016.  Clearly an extremely unforgiving time for having your GA books graded as CGC was seemingly in a grading hissy fit for some apparent reason.  Just take a look at the equally visually appealing CGC 3.0 copy of Detective 38 in the current CC auction that also appears to have been graded extremely tightly back in July of 2016.  Or to the beautiful looking CGC 3.5 graded copy of Batman 1 that was graded back in June of 2016 and just auctioned off in last week's Heritage auction:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/batman-1-dc-1940-cgc-vg-35-off-white-pages/a/7158-91008.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

 

Now compare that CGC 3.5 graded copy of Batman 1 to the unpressed copy of Detective 29 which was also given the exact same 3.5 grade:

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?referral=EAlist&id=685980&title=DETECTIVECOMICS

 

Doesn't take a rocket scientist or even a comic book expert to easily tell which copy looks nicer from a visual cover appearance point of view since we do not have the Graders' Notes handy.   

That difference Speaks for itself.

deeply worrying. Third party grading at its worst.

I am quite sure that the new grading team at CGC does not share your opinion on this matter. 

They are probably working under the misconception that tighter grading is better grading.  And being the new team with its new Head Grader in place, I am quite sure that they want to show that they are better graders than the old team.  So, this could possibly be another one of the reasons why we have apparent differences such as this and swings between so-called tight grading time periods and loose grading time periods.

My take on this is that consistent and accurate grading is better grading, as opposed to tighter grading which could actually lead to undergrading if taken too far. 

It should be pointed out though that it is never a good idea to try to grade from scans alone, as we are really just talking about eye appeal then.  Clearly the Batman 1 wins out here in this particular contest between the 2 books here.  Too cheap to buy the Graders' Notes, but I believe the Heritage catalogue has a side scan of the Batman 1 which indicates a spine split on the top going down to the top staple.  Big kudos to Heritage for providing this additional scan, but not sure if it warrants a hit all the way down to an overall grade of only VG 3.5 for this otherwise visually appealing copy of Batman 1? 

 

Edited March 5, 2017 by lou_fine
Grammer

[Gotham Kid]

18 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Edited 9 minutes ago by lou_fine
Grammer

Grammar

Edited March 5, 2017 by Gotham Kid

[lou_fine]

Only about a week to go until CC's upcoming big Event Auction. 

Is this one of the only times they have not had a copy of 'Tec 31 in their recent Event Auctions?

Looks like pretty slim pickings here on this particular go round for the pre-Robin 'Tec fans. 

[rainmaker]

theres a raw 37 on ebay up for auction currently.  its not the copy for me but those looking for an entry level complete copy may want to have a look.  probably would grade out a 1.0.

[kinzebac]

4 hours ago, rainmaker said:

theres a raw 37 on ebay up for auction currently.  its not the copy for me but those looking for an entry level complete copy may want to have a look.  probably would grade out a 1.0.

I saw that Tec 37 too. Here is the link for anyone who is interested:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/March-1940-Detective-Comics-DC-37-Batman-Unrestored-Ungraded-Complete-NR-/222437898860?nav=SEARCH

 

[lou_fine]

6 hours ago, rainmaker said:

theres a raw 37 on ebay up for auction currently.  its not the copy for me but those looking for an entry level complete copy may want to have a look.  probably would grade out a 1.0.

From that gawd awful bottom spine and the piece out of the front cover, it looks much closer to a 0.5 Poop  as opposed to a 1.0 Fair. 

Not sure about the price though, might be alright since these entry level pre-Robin 'Tec's are indeed going for crazy money in today's marketplace. 

[Dark Knight]

And there's a chance that you might get rabies

[Gotham Kid]

eBay 37 would get slight brittle ( at least )

[Gotham Kid]

Court's Tec 27 2.5 copy just listed on ComicLink

Edited March 15, 2017 by Gotham Kid

[lhcomics]

2 hours ago, Gotham Kid said:

Court's Tec 27 2.5 copy just listed on ComicLink

Probably a smart move to put it on exchange as I wouldn't want to be auctioning big ticket items for next few months until the Berk auctions are over and people recover.

Nice looking 2.5 for sure.