Avengers #4 Extremely Undervalued because its a #4 not a #1

[Foolkiller]

Honestly, while ST 114 uses the iconography of Captain America, it's the Acrobat--not Steve Rogers, so I don't see this book benefiting all that much from the movie hype. A good book to know and have for collectors due to its significance behind the scenes with Stan and Jack testing the waters, but not substantially enough to really elevate it any higher than a semi-key book.

 

(But I do like it and was happy to get a copy if that means anything )

 

I think the argument for ST 114 (which I love, I own the white mountain copy) is that it was a "tryout" of sorts to see whether there was enough interest still in Cap as a character. That issue proved that there was, and hence the revival in Avengers 4.

[supapimp]

i loved STT 114 so much that i use to own 5 copies.

[october]

, the true true 1st appearance of Cap in the Golden Age easily fetches more $$ than the other Silver Age 1st appearance keys.

 

Surprisingly, high grade AF 15s are about neck and neck with Cap 1. In fact, both issues sold in 8.5 in 2009 and AF 15 actually won out. Pretty impressive given the age gap and difference in available copies.

[ComicConnoisseur]

My criteria is simple, its what of these four books will be easier to sell in three to five years for the most profit? Will it be Tos 39, JIM 83,Hulk 1 or Avengers 4? Hands down it will be TOS 39,According to the Disney stockbrokers Iron Man last year sold more merchandise than Spidey. So in conclusion TOS 39 is the winner and maybe someday will give AF 15 a run for its money. Iron Man is the perfect hero for the modern audience. He will adapt well while a lot of those others won`t.

 

That's a bit of a hasty conclusion... while I DO believe the Iron Man movies (and following Avengers films) will certainly solidify Iron Man as a top tier character now, I don't think it will be sufficient to move him past Spider-Man. Again, IM has had 2-3 years of being in the mainstream spotlight whereas Spidey has been swinging in pop culture's limelight for decades. It's like comparing Spider-Man to Superman...

This is a tough one that definately goes to Spidey right now but let`s look at this again after Iron Man 3. I have noticed Spidey has slipped just a little saleswise over the last year and half with this Brand New Day storyline, maybe just maybe Spidey is not the given holy three icon he was, Two years ago everybody said Batman,Superman and Spider-man, I see Spidey maybe getting passed up by either Ironman or Green Lantern in overall popularity over the next 5 years. Just a maybe now that it could happen but it probally won`t. Spidey just doesn`t seem as iconic lately as he did in 2008 for some reason.

[sakaridis]

My criteria is simple, its what of these four books will be easier to sell in three to five years for the most profit? Will it be Tos 39, JIM 83,Hulk 1 or Avengers 4? Hands down it will be TOS 39,According to the Disney stockbrokers Iron Man last year sold more merchandise than Spidey. So in conclusion TOS 39 is the winner and maybe someday will give AF 15 a run for its money. Iron Man is the perfect hero for the modern audience. He will adapt well while a lot of those others won`t.

 

That's a bit of a hasty conclusion... while I DO believe the Iron Man movies (and following Avengers films) will certainly solidify Iron Man as a top tier character now, I don't think it will be sufficient to move him past Spider-Man. Again, IM has had 2-3 years of being in the mainstream spotlight whereas Spidey has been swinging in pop culture's limelight for decades. It's like comparing Spider-Man to Superman...

This is a tough one that definately goes to Spidey right now but let`s look at this again after Iron Man 3. I have noticed Spidey has slipped just a little saleswise over the last year and half with this Brand New Day storyline, maybe just maybe Spidey is not the given holy three icon he was, Two years ago everybody said Batman,Superman and Spider-man, I see Spidey maybe getting passed up by either Ironman or Green Lantern in overall popularity over the next 5 years. Just a maybe now that it could happen but it probally won`t. Spidey just doesn`t seem as iconic lately as he did in 2008 for some reason.

There is absolutely no way that Iron Man (or Green Lantern) will ever actually surpass Spider-Man in popularity and overall recognition. There may be short periods of increased "hotness" for some characters (remember the Hulk? everything seemed to be turning Green a few years ago!), but the "holy trinity" of Bats, Superman, and Spidey will almost certainly remain the same for decades to come.

 

The only reason that Spider-Man "doesn't seem as iconic" is because there was no Spider-movie in the last three years. But the average Joe on the street will still recognize Spidey much faster and easier than Iron Man, any day of the week.

[seanfingh]

But the average Joe on the street will still recognize Spidey much faster and easier than Iron Man, any day of the week.

 

While I agree, I believe the gap has been closed tremendously. Kids really like IM.

[Larryw7]

Honestly, while ST 114 uses the iconography of Captain America, it's the Acrobat--not Steve Rogers, so I don't see this book benefiting all that much from the movie hype. A good book to know and have for collectors due to its significance behind the scenes with Stan and Jack testing the waters, but not substantially enough to really elevate it any higher than a semi-key book.

 

(But I do like it and was happy to get a copy if that means anything )

 

I think the argument for ST 114 (which I love, I own the white mountain copy) is that it was a "tryout" of sorts to see whether there was enough interest still in Cap as a character. That issue proved that there was, and hence the revival in Avengers 4.

 

 

[Mac Man]

My criteria is simple, its what of these four books will be easier to sell in three to five years for the most profit? Will it be Tos 39, JIM 83,Hulk 1 or Avengers 4? Hands down it will be TOS 39,According to the Disney stockbrokers Iron Man last year sold more merchandise than Spidey. So in conclusion TOS 39 is the winner and maybe someday will give AF 15 a run for its money. Iron Man is the perfect hero for the modern audience. He will adapt well while a lot of those others won`t.

 

That's a bit of a hasty conclusion... while I DO believe the Iron Man movies (and following Avengers films) will certainly solidify Iron Man as a top tier character now, I don't think it will be sufficient to move him past Spider-Man. Again, IM has had 2-3 years of being in the mainstream spotlight whereas Spidey has been swinging in pop culture's limelight for decades. It's like comparing Spider-Man to Superman...

This is a tough one that definately goes to Spidey right now but let`s look at this again after Iron Man 3. I have noticed Spidey has slipped just a little saleswise over the last year and half with this Brand New Day storyline, maybe just maybe Spidey is not the given holy three icon he was, Two years ago everybody said Batman,Superman and Spider-man, I see Spidey maybe getting passed up by either Ironman or Green Lantern in overall popularity over the next 5 years. Just a maybe now that it could happen but it probally won`t. Spidey just doesn`t seem as iconic lately as he did in 2008 for some reason.

 

Green Lantern? Really? I will gladly eat crow if Green Lantern lasts any longer than Daredevil. Ben Affleck had a "few" good movies under his belt. Ryan Reynolds? GL is benefiting strictly from movie hype here. At least IM had good actors going into the first film (RDJ, Paltrow, Bridges, Jackson, etc, etc) and continued to bring in good talent. I don't think you're going to find very many collectors who will stand behind you on this one. GL just doesn't have the chops either cinematically or in the comics.

 

And again, IM is short term though I do think he will do well but by no means surpass Spider-Man. As Brian mentioned, we DO need to look at the history of the characters and the fact of the matter is that Iron Man didn't get the "call up to the big leagues" until the Civil War series and this was meant to familiarize the fans with him as a preface to the IM 1 movie. Further, if movies are a concern, you may want to recall that they're coming out with a 4th SM movie in the next year or two.

 

I'm not knocking either character (I totally got hooked by the revamp of IM), and in terms of personal preference, one can choose however; but if we're looking at things from a fact-based perspective, there really aren't any indications that any Marvel character is going to be moving in over Spider-Man in the foreseeable future.

 

P.S. This probably has to be one of the most enjoyable threads I've participated in in a LONG time. (thumbs u

[sakaridis]

But the average Joe on the street will still recognize Spidey much faster and easier than Iron Man, any day of the week.

 

While I agree, I believe the gap has been closed tremendously. Kids really like IM.

For now.

 

Remember, kids used to "really like" Pokemon, for a while

[Green]

I'm not disputing the relevancy of the book,hope to one day own an AV#4.As far as Iron Mans 1st app. relevancy and popularity are two different things,I'm good with the whole thing.Major keys,minor keys I want them all.

 

The foundation of my point though, is that until recently, for both relevancy and popularity, you would have rated Av. 4 ahead of TOS 39 in my opinion. The only thing I would have given the nod to TOS 39 on was scarcity, a factor that I think should not go into whether a book is "key" or not.

Nobody seemed to care about Avengers 4 before the avengers/cap movie announcements other than avengers/cap fans. I got a VG+ for 125$ shortly after i joined the forum. ToS39 has been a mega key in my mind since i was 12.

 

 

[Mac Man]

I'm not disputing the relevancy of the book,hope to one day own an AV#4.As far as Iron Mans 1st app. relevancy and popularity are two different things,I'm good with the whole thing.Major keys,minor keys I want them all.

 

The foundation of my point though, is that until recently, for both relevancy and popularity, you would have rated Av. 4 ahead of TOS 39 in my opinion. The only thing I would have given the nod to TOS 39 on was scarcity, a factor that I think should not go into whether a book is "key" or not.

Nobody seemed to care about Avengers 4 before the avengers/cap movie announcements other than avengers/cap fans. I got a VG+ for 125$ shortly after i joined the forum. ToS39 has been a mega key in my mind since i was 12.

 

 

I'd say you got a pretty good deal. I picked up my last copy and sold one before that both at guide--this was about 2-3 years ago.

[Guardian Comics]

Honestly, while ST 114 uses the iconography of Captain America, it's the Acrobat--not Steve Rogers, so I don't see this book benefiting all that much from the movie hype. A good book to know and have for collectors due to its significance behind the scenes with Stan and Jack testing the waters, but not substantially enough to really elevate it any higher than a semi-key book.

 

(But I do like it and was happy to get a copy if that means anything )

 

I think the argument for ST 114 (which I love, I own the white mountain copy) is that it was a "tryout" of sorts to see whether there was enough interest still in Cap as a character. That issue proved that there was, and hence the revival in Avengers 4.

 

 

 

Great book, wonder who had it previously

 

Like Brian said though it was a tryout/prototype book, it definitely doesn't belong in the same category as Avengers #4.

 

As we're playing with revisionist history, what if Cap doesn't even join the Avengers in issue #4, do they even last 66 issues like X-Men? We'll never know but like many have mentioned it is Cap who drives and is the face of the Avengers!!!

 

Jim

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

My criteria is simple, its what of these four books will be easier to sell in three to five years for the most profit? Will it be Tos 39, JIM 83,Hulk 1 or Avengers 4? Hands down it will be TOS 39,According to the Disney stockbrokers Iron Man last year sold more merchandise than Spidey. So in conclusion TOS 39 is the winner and maybe someday will give AF 15 a run for its money. Iron Man is the perfect hero for the modern audience. He will adapt well while a lot of those others won`t.

 

That's a bit of a hasty conclusion... while I DO believe the Iron Man movies (and following Avengers films) will certainly solidify Iron Man as a top tier character now, I don't think it will be sufficient to move him past Spider-Man. Again, IM has had 2-3 years of being in the mainstream spotlight whereas Spidey has been swinging in pop culture's limelight for decades. It's like comparing Spider-Man to Superman...

This is a tough one that definately goes to Spidey right now but let`s look at this again after Iron Man 3. I have noticed Spidey has slipped just a little saleswise over the last year and half with this Brand New Day storyline, maybe just maybe Spidey is not the given holy three icon he was, Two years ago everybody said Batman,Superman and Spider-man, I see Spidey maybe getting passed up by either Ironman or Green Lantern in overall popularity over the next 5 years. Just a maybe now that it could happen but it probally won`t. Spidey just doesn`t seem as iconic lately as he did in 2008 for some reason.

There is absolutely no way that Iron Man (or Green Lantern) will ever actually surpass Spider-Man in popularity and overall recognition. There may be short periods of increased "hotness" for some characters (remember the Hulk? everything seemed to be turning Green a few years ago!), but the "holy trinity" of Bats, Superman, and Spidey will almost certainly remain the same for decades to come.

 

The only reason that Spider-Man "doesn't seem as iconic" is because there was no Spider-movie in the last three years. But the average Joe on the street will still recognize Spidey much faster and easier than Iron Man, any day of the week.

I could be wrong but your probally thinking of the average 40 year old while I am thinking of future generations like my son and his friends, Spidey is just not considered cool to his generation like Ironman,Harry Potter or Ben 10 are,Spidey is starting to become what Superman was to our generation, our father and grandfathers hero, that`s probally why they are going with the younger Spidey for the reboot.

[SAGAT]

My criteria is simple, its what of these four books will be easier to sell in three to five years for the most profit? Will it be Tos 39, JIM 83,Hulk 1 or Avengers 4? Hands down it will be TOS 39,According to the Disney stockbrokers Iron Man last year sold more merchandise than Spidey. So in conclusion TOS 39 is the winner and maybe someday will give AF 15 a run for its money. Iron Man is the perfect hero for the modern audience. He will adapt well while a lot of those others won`t.

 

That's a bit of a hasty conclusion... while I DO believe the Iron Man movies (and following Avengers films) will certainly solidify Iron Man as a top tier character now, I don't think it will be sufficient to move him past Spider-Man. Again, IM has had 2-3 years of being in the mainstream spotlight whereas Spidey has been swinging in pop culture's limelight for decades. It's like comparing Spider-Man to Superman...

This is a tough one that definately goes to Spidey right now but let`s look at this again after Iron Man 3. I have noticed Spidey has slipped just a little saleswise over the last year and half with this Brand New Day storyline, maybe just maybe Spidey is not the given holy three icon he was, Two years ago everybody said Batman,Superman and Spider-man, I see Spidey maybe getting passed up by either Ironman or Green Lantern in overall popularity over the next 5 years. Just a maybe now that it could happen but it probally won`t. Spidey just doesn`t seem as iconic lately as he did in 2008 for some reason.

There is absolutely no way that Iron Man (or Green Lantern) will ever actually surpass Spider-Man in popularity and overall recognition. There may be short periods of increased "hotness" for some characters (remember the Hulk? everything seemed to be turning Green a few years ago!), but the "holy trinity" of Bats, Superman, and Spidey will almost certainly remain the same for decades to come.

 

The only reason that Spider-Man "doesn't seem as iconic" is because there was no Spider-movie in the last three years. But the average Joe on the street will still recognize Spidey much faster and easier than Iron Man, any day of the week.

I could be wrong but your probally thinking of the average 40 year old while I am thinking of future generations like my son and his friends, Spidey is just not considered cool to his generation like Ironman,Harry Potter or Ben 10 are,Spidey is starting to become what Superman was to our generation, our father and grandfathers hero, that`s probally why they are going with the younger Spidey for the reboot.

 

Popularity and icon wise -1st Spiderman, Captain America, and Iron Man in that order.

[SAGAT]

Where does Thor rank though ? Will TOS 39 overtake JIM 83? as Av#4 will eventually catch up to Daredevil 1 in value. Too many possibilites dependent on success of movies.

[ComicConnoisseur]

My criteria is simple, its what of these four books will be easier to sell in three to five years for the most profit? Will it be Tos 39, JIM 83,Hulk 1 or Avengers 4? Hands down it will be TOS 39,According to the Disney stockbrokers Iron Man last year sold more merchandise than Spidey. So in conclusion TOS 39 is the winner and maybe someday will give AF 15 a run for its money. Iron Man is the perfect hero for the modern audience. He will adapt well while a lot of those others won`t.

 

That's a bit of a hasty conclusion... while I DO believe the Iron Man movies (and following Avengers films) will certainly solidify Iron Man as a top tier character now, I don't think it will be sufficient to move him past Spider-Man. Again, IM has had 2-3 years of being in the mainstream spotlight whereas Spidey has been swinging in pop culture's limelight for decades. It's like comparing Spider-Man to Superman...

This is a tough one that definately goes to Spidey right now but let`s look at this again after Iron Man 3. I have noticed Spidey has slipped just a little saleswise over the last year and half with this Brand New Day storyline, maybe just maybe Spidey is not the given holy three icon he was, Two years ago everybody said Batman,Superman and Spider-man, I see Spidey maybe getting passed up by either Ironman or Green Lantern in overall popularity over the next 5 years. Just a maybe now that it could happen but it probally won`t. Spidey just doesn`t seem as iconic lately as he did in 2008 for some reason.

 

Green Lantern? Really? I will gladly eat crow if Green Lantern lasts any longer than Daredevil. Ben Affleck had a "few" good movies under his belt. Ryan Reynolds? GL is benefiting strictly from movie hype here. At least IM had good actors going into the first film (RDJ, Paltrow, Bridges, Jackson, etc, etc) and continued to bring in good talent. I don't think you're going to find very many collectors who will stand behind you on this one. GL just doesn't have the chops either cinematically or in the comics.

 

P.S. This probably has to be one of the most enjoyable threads I've participated in in a LONG time. (thumbs u

I am using a combination of what I have been seeing with GL as the hottest character in silver age with Showcase 22, the buzz about the movie and something that may be the most important, Green Lantern and all his family of comics right now are the number one monthly sellers, yes the monthly GL comic outsells Batman and X-men! What really gave me the tip off as to how hot Green Lantern is go to Amazon top 10 graphic novel sellers, Green Lantern has 3 of the top ten best sellers in mainstream America, no other mainstream super hero makes the list, you don`t see Spider-man in the top 50 of the Amazon top selling list but there is Green Lantern duking it out with Diary of a Wimpy kid and Scott Pilgrim for the top spot, definately right now mainstream America in more in tune with GL then Spidey. Will it last? I have no clue,these are just my observations right now and it will not surprise me at all that Green Lantern will have the biggest box office take of big three super movies next year.( Thor,Captain America.Green Lantern).

[Mac Man]

My criteria is simple, its what of these four books will be easier to sell in three to five years for the most profit? Will it be Tos 39, JIM 83,Hulk 1 or Avengers 4? Hands down it will be TOS 39,According to the Disney stockbrokers Iron Man last year sold more merchandise than Spidey. So in conclusion TOS 39 is the winner and maybe someday will give AF 15 a run for its money. Iron Man is the perfect hero for the modern audience. He will adapt well while a lot of those others won`t.

 

That's a bit of a hasty conclusion... while I DO believe the Iron Man movies (and following Avengers films) will certainly solidify Iron Man as a top tier character now, I don't think it will be sufficient to move him past Spider-Man. Again, IM has had 2-3 years of being in the mainstream spotlight whereas Spidey has been swinging in pop culture's limelight for decades. It's like comparing Spider-Man to Superman...

This is a tough one that definately goes to Spidey right now but let`s look at this again after Iron Man 3. I have noticed Spidey has slipped just a little saleswise over the last year and half with this Brand New Day storyline, maybe just maybe Spidey is not the given holy three icon he was, Two years ago everybody said Batman,Superman and Spider-man, I see Spidey maybe getting passed up by either Ironman or Green Lantern in overall popularity over the next 5 years. Just a maybe now that it could happen but it probally won`t. Spidey just doesn`t seem as iconic lately as he did in 2008 for some reason.

 

Green Lantern? Really? I will gladly eat crow if Green Lantern lasts any longer than Daredevil. Ben Affleck had a "few" good movies under his belt. Ryan Reynolds? GL is benefiting strictly from movie hype here. At least IM had good actors going into the first film (RDJ, Paltrow, Bridges, Jackson, etc, etc) and continued to bring in good talent. I don't think you're going to find very many collectors who will stand behind you on this one. GL just doesn't have the chops either cinematically or in the comics.

 

P.S. This probably has to be one of the most enjoyable threads I've participated in in a LONG time. (thumbs u

I am using a combination of what I have been seeing with GL as the hottest character in silver age with Showcase 22, the buzz about the movie and something that may be the most important, Green Lantern and all his family of comics right now are the number one monthly sellers, yes the monthly GL comic outsells Batman and X-men! What really gave me the tip off as to how hot Green Lantern is go to Amazon top 10 graphic novel sellers, Green Lantern has 3 of the top ten best sellers in mainstream America, no other mainstream super hero makes the list, you don`t see Spider-man in the top 50 of the Amazon top selling list but there is Green Lantern duking it out with Diary of a Wimpy kid and Scott Pilgrim for the top spot, definately right now mainstream America in more in tune with GL then Spidey. Will it last? I have no clue,these are just my observations right now and it will not surprise me at all that Green Lantern will have the biggest box office take of big three super movies next year.( Thor,Captain America.Green Lantern).

 

I'm not arguing short term

 

But like I said, 5 years from now I'll more than happily concede the point if GL is still maintaining its present speed. That's a big 'if' though.

 

In any event, I'm a Syracuse Orangeman football fan so I can appreciate people enjoying their time in the sun, and far be it from me to rain on someone's parade. Lord alone knows my football team doesn't get much!

 

[Wayne-Tec]

IMO...Spiderman is far from being over-taken.

 

If anything, his popularity falling "out of vogue" is far more temporary than permanent. Pop culture like so many things, goes through phases and during a time when the Spiderman film franchise is being rebooted, no super-successful animated series is to be found, it is possible for even Spiderman to lose a bit of steam.

 

When I was growing up, Spiderman the Animated Series was a HUGE factor in what made Spidey "cool". You would look forward to watching the show on Saturdays, weekdays, whenever it was on. Little things like that can go a long way to boosting the popularity of a character but in this modern age of technology, it can be hard to impress.

 

Iron Man has been the "in" character since the movies are fresh and the same could happen to GL when the film comes out. But to me, these are not signs of one character over-taking another...not for any extended period anyway.

 

If anything, the future for Spidey can only go up while the opposite could be said for his contemporaries that have already experienced their moment in the sun.

[Point Five]

I could be wrong but your probally thinking of the average 40 year old while I am thinking of future generations like my son and his friends, Spidey is just not considered cool to his generation like Ironman,Harry Potter or Ben 10 are,Spidey is starting to become what Superman was to our generation, our father and grandfathers hero, that`s probally why they are going with the younger Spidey for the reboot.

I think you may need to widen your focus group a touch. Here in NY, you can see kids walking around with some kind of Spidey 'gear' (tshirts, backpacks, etc) practically any day of the week. No doubt the recent movies have fed the licensing, but from what I've seen in my travels the character has HUGE exposure with the younger generation.

 

[Aman619]

I agree that Spideys hold on #3 slot is secure. But admittedly my thinking has been affected by the recent trilogy of billion dollar movies that boosted him way up to Superman/Batman status.

 

So should the next film with a new star NOT be a $500-900 smash and trigger some weakness in the brand and worried execs in Culver City, and should another character like IM or whoever have developed by then into the cash cow of the moment, Spidey's status might slip.

 

Im trying to remember who we all thought was #3 back in 2000, before the Spidey smashes... Wasnt XMen the hottest Marvel property?

 

How about back in the late 90s? after the 90s Marvel animated series died down. XMen again? Followed by Spidey, FF and the Hulk?

 

Its actually Iron Man today who has the hot hand. Lets see how long it continues.