Avengers #4 Extremely Undervalued because its a #4 not a #1

[Mac Man]

I could be wrong but your probally thinking of the average 40 year old while I am thinking of future generations like my son and his friends, Spidey is just not considered cool to his generation like Ironman,Harry Potter or Ben 10 are,Spidey is starting to become what Superman was to our generation, our father and grandfathers hero, that`s probally why they are going with the younger Spidey for the reboot.

I think you may need to widen your focus group a touch. Here in NY, you can see kids walking around with some kind of Spidey 'gear' (tshirts, backpacks, etc) practically any day of the week. No doubt the recent movies have fed the licensing, but from what I've seen in my travels the character has HUGE exposure with the younger generation.

 

(thumbs u

 

Having spent the last three years as a high school English teacher (who used comics in his class), I could probably tell you which character came up most often, but Jon pretty much hit the nail on the head.

[thehumantorch]

I could be wrong but your probally thinking of the average 40 year old while I am thinking of future generations like my son and his friends, Spidey is just not considered cool to his generation like Ironman,Harry Potter or Ben 10 are,Spidey is starting to become what Superman was to our generation, our father and grandfathers hero, that`s probally why they are going with the younger Spidey for the reboot.

I think you may need to widen your focus group a touch. Here in NY, you can see kids walking around with some kind of Spidey 'gear' (tshirts, backpacks, etc) practically any day of the week. No doubt the recent movies have fed the licensing, but from what I've seen in my travels the character has HUGE exposure with the younger generation.

 

(thumbs u

 

Having spent the last three years as a high school English teacher (who used comics in his class), I could probably tell you which character came up most often, but Jon pretty much hit the nail on the head.

 

Agreed. Spiderman has had universal appeal since the 60s and his t-shirts and merchandise are everywhere.

 

Iron Man is cool but he was a speed bump on the superhero highway until his movie made him popular.

[Battle]

Thor is 2011 Iron Man. The trailer at Comic Con was awesome. Get your JIM 83 now.

[Guardian Comics]

Another factor which I haven't seen mentioned yet is each characters rogues gallery. As popular as each character is, their respective anti-hero is nearly as important. As long as Spidey has Doc Ock, Goblin, Venom etc etc etc and Iron Man has :shrug: it's gonna be an upward climb for Iron Man to really steal Spideys demographic.

 

Jim

[namisgr]

No love for the Crimson Dynamo...

 

Back to topic, when I returned to back issue comic collecting in 1992 Avengers #4 was a huge comic. Not only was Cap's first SA appearance recognized as a milestone, but the iconic Kirby cover made this one of the most sought-after and expensive books of the day.

 

The price it fetches today is certainly impacted by its relative abundance compared with many other first appearances (Hulk 1, TOS 39, JIM 83), as the census statistics quoted earlier indicate.

[mysterio]

Personally I think that the makers of the Iron Man movies missed the boat by not adapting the TOS #69-71 storyline with the Titanium Man for Iron Man 2. He would have made for a much more impressive villain that Whiplash (really, Whiplash was the best they could come up with?) and the effects would have been incredible. The only argument against it, which is valid, is that TM may have been too much like the Iron Monger from IM1, in which case they should have stuck with the Mandarin as the true villain (rather than a side story) in either IM1 or 2 instead of the Monger. (I know that is off topic for the board, but I couldn't let my 2 cents go unheard on that since you brought it up.)

 

Back to topic, I would agree that AV #4 is a "milestone" and an important book, but having followed this thread for a while I have to agree that it is not really a key on the level of books like AV #1, TOS #39 or JIM #83 and the #4 is completely out of the league of books like AF #15 and Hulk #1 in terms of being a Marvel key. It is a book that all Marvel collectors ought to own for its historical importance, but it is a second tier key (and maybe more like a tier 2a book). First overall appearances have to trump first Silver Age appearance in my book.

[namisgr]

First overall appearances have to trump first Silver Age appearance in my book.

 

But the DC argument made earlier in the thread applies here. Otherwise, Showcase #4 and #22 wouldn't be considered top tier keys, yet most would agree they are.

[mysterio]

First overall appearances have to trump first Silver Age appearance in my book.

 

But the DC argument made earlier in the thread applies here. Otherwise, Showcase #4 and #22 wouldn't be considered top tier keys, yet most would agree they are.

 

True, but I seem to remember the point being made in that thread that those DC SA characters are new rebooted versions of the old GA heroes. The SA Flash was a different guy with a different costume and backstory, same with GL. Captain America and Steve Rogers is the same guy that was simply transported to the Marvel of the 60's from the Marvel of the 40's and 50's. That argument made a lot of sense to me.

[AGGIEZ]

Where does Thor rank though ? Will TOS 39 overtake JIM 83? as Av#4 will eventually catch up to Daredevil 1 in value. Too many possibilites dependent on success of movies.

 

 

I think it has caught Daredevil #1 in value. These two books are neck and neck in GPA values...

[Mac Man]

Where does Thor rank though ? Will TOS 39 overtake JIM 83? as Av#4 will eventually catch up to Daredevil 1 in value. Too many possibilites dependent on success of movies.

 

 

I think it has caught Daredevil #1 in value. These two books are neck and neck in GPA values...

 

And where they might be tied in terms of value, if we refer back to the previous traits I mentioned, there is far more demand for Avengers 4, greater longevity with Cap than DD, and frankly, if you compare the cover and splash art from one to the other, DD1 continues to fall back. Really, the one piece DD1 has going for it is that it's a 1st appearance of a B-rate character who had a few shining moments in comic history--the Miller run to be exact.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Where does Thor rank though ? Will TOS 39 overtake JIM 83? as Av#4 will eventually catch up to Daredevil 1 in value. Too many possibilites dependent on success of movies.

 

 

I think it has caught Daredevil #1 in value. These two books are neck and neck in GPA values...

 

And where they might be tied in terms of value, if we refer back to the previous traits I mentioned, there is far more demand for Avengers 4, greater longevity with Cap than DD, and frankly, if you compare the cover and splash art from one to the other, DD1 continues to fall back. Really, the one piece DD1 has going for it is that it's a 1st appearance of a B-rate character who had a few shining moments in comic history--the Miller run to be exact.

Well the Bendis and Brukbaker runs were pretty good if not better than the Miller runs. I wouldn`t call DD a B rate character,Marvel films will be getting control to the film rights soon, the quicker people forget about the Ben Affleck movie debacle the better, this might be the right time to invest in Daredevil keys before the film reboot.

[Mac Man]

Where does Thor rank though ? Will TOS 39 overtake JIM 83? as Av#4 will eventually catch up to Daredevil 1 in value. Too many possibilites dependent on success of movies.

 

 

I think it has caught Daredevil #1 in value. These two books are neck and neck in GPA values...

 

And where they might be tied in terms of value, if we refer back to the previous traits I mentioned, there is far more demand for Avengers 4, greater longevity with Cap than DD, and frankly, if you compare the cover and splash art from one to the other, DD1 continues to fall back. Really, the one piece DD1 has going for it is that it's a 1st appearance of a B-rate character who had a few shining moments in comic history--the Miller run to be exact.

Well the Bendis and Brukbaker runs were pretty good if not better than the Miller runs. I wouldn`t call DD a B rate character,Marvel films will be getting control to the film rights soon, the quicker people forget about the Ben Affleck movie debacle the better, this might be the right time to invest in Daredevil keys before the film reboot.

 

I've been meaning to check the run out as I have heard some very positive things about it; though I don't think we'll see ol' Hornhead surpassing Avengers 4.

 

And until DD is somehow able to move past the debacle which everyone still remembers all too well, I'm afraid he'll still be residing in the B grade range. After all, if he was an A-lister, you'd never be able to snag his #1 issue for as cheap as you can now.

 

But don't worry--I love B-listers too. Robin (Tim Drake) is probably one of my favorite characters from when I was a kid and teen. And I bought his issues first when I got back into collecting. Robin is totally underrated and often derided, but in my book, he's (thumbs u But I also understand where he falls in the grand scheme of things. What can you do?

[Point Five]

Another factor which I haven't seen mentioned yet is each characters rogues gallery. As popular as each character is, their respective anti-hero is nearly as important. As long as Spidey has Doc Ock, Goblin, Venom etc etc etc and Iron Man has :shrug: it's gonna be an upward climb for Iron Man to really steal Spideys demographic.

 

Jim

Good point. (thumbs u

[AGGIEZ]

Another factor which I haven't seen mentioned yet is each characters rogues gallery. As popular as each character is, their respective anti-hero is nearly as important. As long as Spidey has Doc Ock, Goblin, Venom etc etc etc and Iron Man has :shrug: it's gonna be an upward climb for Iron Man to really steal Spideys demographic.

 

Jim

Good point. (thumbs u

 

Yep, good point. Spidey has so many solid arch enemies, Iron Man has...Crimson Dynamo? Iron Monger? The Unicorn? Whirlwind and Whiplash? Yeh, a REALLY weak rogues gallery.

 

You can say the same about Daredevil, although I think its stronger than Iron Man's gallery.

[Guardian Comics]

Another factor which I haven't seen mentioned yet is each characters rogues gallery. As popular as each character is, their respective anti-hero is nearly as important. As long as Spidey has Doc Ock, Goblin, Venom etc etc etc and Iron Man has :shrug: it's gonna be an upward climb for Iron Man to really steal Spideys demographic.

 

Jim

Good point. (thumbs u

 

Yep, good point. Spidey has so many solid arch enemies, Iron Man has...Crimson Dynamo? Iron Monger? The Unicorn? Whirlwind and Whiplash? Yeh, a REALLY weak rogues gallery.

 

You can say the same about Daredevil, although I think its stronger than Iron Man's gallery.

 

It's quite possible that EVERY major Marvel hero has a stronger Rogues Gallery than Iron Man.

 

Jim

[Guardian Comics]

Where does Thor rank though ? Will TOS 39 overtake JIM 83? as Av#4 will eventually catch up to Daredevil 1 in value. Too many possibilites dependent on success of movies.

 

 

I think it has caught Daredevil #1 in value. These two books are neck and neck in GPA values...

 

Really, the one piece DD1 has going for it is that it's a 1st appearance of a B-rate character who had a few shining moments in comic history--the Miller run to be exact.

 

And my favourite Superhero movie of all time (and I'm not being facetious )

 

I won't turn this into a debate I could never win, so please disregard my last comment (strongest cast, best story and proper atmosphere )

 

Jim

[Raphael]

Totally off topic, but maybe Ben Affleck should direct the next DareDevil movie

 

And yes, I echo and agree with the sentiments of Iron Man's weak rogue gallery. But you could argue that Iron Man's greatest foe will always be himself...

[AGGIEZ]

Or Johnny Walker

[Primetime]

Avengers #4 ($4.2K in 9.2) is extremely undervalued because its a #4 not a #1.Captain America is the leader of the Avengers but why does he take a backseat pricewise to Thor (JIM83-$26K) and Iron Man (TOS39-$20K). Cap is the leader of Avengers and wears the USA costume yet he even loses out to Daredevil ($7.5K). Afterall Avengers 4 was released in 1964 not 1968.

 

If Cap appeared in Avengers #1 on the cover and story then Avengers 1 would be worth 35K in the new guide at 9.2 agree anyone?

Avengers 4 is not Cap's 1st ever appearance (Cap 1--3/41). JIM 83/TOS 39 are 1st appearances so that is why they have always been priced higher...A4 has been undervalued for many many years, so it is making it's rightful climb. (thumbs u It won't ever pass JIM 83 or TOS 39.

[TerrysComics]

I have one for sale on e-bay no reserve at CGC 9.2. the high bid is currently $5200. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300447419946&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT#ht_500wt_1154 Terry O.