What book started the Bronze Age of Comics???? 2 2

[cd4ever]

Yeah, I agree with that. If GS X-men 1 starts the brone age, then that means that Tomb Of Dracula 1 is not a bronze age book. But of course it is! I don't like the idea of a 5-year in-between age so I have to go with GL 76. It has always been considered the start of something different in comics, with a new realism and darker look and feel.

[RedFury]

I have always considered Conan #1 to be the first Bronze book for the following reasons:

1. It was a completely new concept in comics. (OK, Kubert did "Crom the Barbarian" and "Tor" back in the 50's, but neither really caught on).

2. It was immensely successful, spawning many spinoffs (Savage Sword of Conan, King Conan, Red Sonja, King Kull) and imitators (Arak, Beowulf, Tor (again), Wulf the Barbarian, etc. Even Cerebus was originally intended as a Conan spoof!

3. It was published in 1970, the beginning of the new decade, a natural delimiter.

4. It was the first book that was widely purchased in bulk by speculators.

5. It received tremendous coverage in the media. There really was Conan mania in the early 70's! It brought a lot of attention to the comics industry.

 

There are good arguments for Green Lantern #76 as well:

1. It came out 6 months before Conan #1

2. It changed the way comics were written by addressing an important social issue of the day.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't see any merit in the arguments that Giant Size X-men #1 is the first bronze book when it was published 5 years after GL #76 and Conan #1. The most important bronze book? Maybe. But certainly not the first.

 

The only other major event that I can think of that pre-dates GL #76 would be the Marvel expansion of 1968 (Tales of Suspense splits into two titles - Captain America and Iron Man, Tales to Astonish became Hulk and Sub-mariner, etc). But I have a hard time saying Iron Man #1 is a bronze age book!

 

 

 

[aardvark88]

Would say the 1st bks speculated in were the Marvel 1sts fr 1968 evidenced by all the hi-grade warehouse/speculator stock that MarK Wilson (PGC Mint) found. Mass speculation was prevalent on Conan 1 b/c some collectors missed out on N Fury 1, Iron Man 1, Cap 100, Dr Strange 169, Iron Man & Sub 1, Sub-mariner 1.

[MikeS]

I always put Green Lantern 76 in a class by itself. Considering the series was cancelled at issue 90 or so (it was later restarted up again), it's harder to see the direct impact that O'Neal and Adams had on the industry. I would like to think that a start of the Age would be something that would last more than a couple of years. It wasn't like all of the comics stated to become more socially questioning and realistic, etc.

 

Also I would have thought that if Conan #1 was the start of the age, there would have been a lot more successful imitators - most people probably haven't even heard of Arak and Wulf the Barbarian. It's impact lasted only a few years, if that.

 

Look at what Showcase #4 brought about - the revival of Flash, Green Lantern, etc. plus it's influence on Marvel Comics and their imitation of DC brought about the FF, etc. Pretty earth shattering. I think GS X-Men #1 and the introduction of the New X-Men had that impact on the industry and comics.

 

I'm okay with there being an age between Gold and Silver when things like EC comics and the horror "craze" occurred. I'm also okay with there being a gap between the end of the Silver Age and the start of the Bronze Age when you had Marvel Team-Up and Defenders coming out. None of those titles though had the same impact that Showcase #4 did (Living Mummy, The Cat, Son of Satan??)

 

I think someone posted above that there will never be a consensus about what book started the Bronze Age - I would definitely agree with that!

 

[comicinvestor-migration]

'Pretty earth shattering. I think GS X-Men #1 and the introduction of the New X-Men had that impact on the industry and comics."

 

Yeah Battlestar Galactica, Nova and Ms. Marvel were quite the world-beaters. Giant-Size X-Men didn't even register on the radar, at least until Claremont and Byrne really got rolling around 1978-1980.

 

If you were buying comics in 1975-76 you would know this and quickly realize that the New X-Men is a Modern phenomonen that had little or nothing to do with the Bronze Age.

 

Kids.

[MikeS]

Hey now!! I'll have you know that I started collecting in '76 So be careful who you are calling kids!! Ha, ha.

 

Good point though - and I just have to ask when do you think the Bronze Age ended?

[comicinvestor-migration]

While I still don't think there is one, definitive comic that started the Bronze Age, I'm prepared to admit that Conan 1 fits the bill more than any other introduction. It was a new character in comics, it did set the tone for increased violence/anti-hero sentiments, and brand new characters, books and revamps did follow in short order.

 

GL/GA 76 was a nice shift for comics to more realistic subject matter, but it's an impossible stretch to tie this comic with major Bronze characters like Punisher, Wolverine, Deathlok, Werewolf, Dracula and the other more edgy, violent comic trends that the Bronze Age is best known for.

 

The Marvel Explosion of '68 is a non-factor, since this was simply an expansion of the title count, taking split books and turning them into single comic titles. No new characters, no new concepts, no team books, character revamps, etc., so no New Age in my opinion.

 

You can make a case for Conan based on the new characters and comics that did follow it, and I think that's the best evidence so far as to the true focal point of the Bronze Age. It's not perfect, but I guess it's the best we've got.

 

Oh yeah, the next person to state that the 1975 poor-selling, revamp of the New X-Men started the Bronze Age gets whacked with a rolled up stack of X-Men 90-93 reprints.

[comicinvestor-migration]

"Good point though - and I just have to ask when do you think the Bronze Age ended?"

 

Honestly?

 

X-Men 137.

 

You could also make the case of many comics, such as Daredevil 168 or 181, but the Death of Phoenix really put the final stamp on everything the Bronze Age represented.

 

That's not the same as the start of the Modern Age, and if there is any "tweener age" in comics it's the early to mid-80's Marvel and DC. Uggh!

[supapimp]

the Bronze Age officially ended with the release of Dazzler # 1 the first comic book to ever be sold as direct market. i might also add as inbetween S.A. and B.A. debate about Conan being the start of the B.A., what about MOKF(master of kung fu), that came out in 1973-74 only to hop on the martial arts bandwagon, so that makes Conan a certifiable "NO" as the start of the B.A. read the article in CBG 1497, "Conan was a cool series, but it was barely a catalyst for other sword and sorcery titles, much less for super-heros to create a new age."-ask mr. silver age (craig shutt) you can email him at cshutt@earthlink.net

[aardvark88]

I thought the 1st direct sales comic was a Superboy 1 shot by DC w/c predated Dazzler 1. Death knell of the B.A. was Legends of Dark Knight 1 (1989?). Mass speculation & multi-colored "variant" cvrs for no reason other than to increase sales for completists. Some con dealers bought a long box of this gr8 bk & were wondering why they couldn't sell a single copy. Everybody & their dog bought multiple copies just like X-men 137.

[aardvark88]

I think G Kane's His Name is Savage mag (1969?) was direct sales (self-published). Eclipse's P Gulacy Sabre 1 graphic novel was direct sales b4 Dazzler 1. Also Fantasy Quarterly 1 (Elfquest) & Cerebus 1 (Dec/77) were direct sales. How about ugs fr 1960s? Direct sales via baby stroller distn fr pot shop to pot shop in Haight Ashbury, CA.

[comicinvestor-migration]

"ask mr. silver age (craig shutt)"

 

Truthfully, if this bozo is saying that Giant Size X-Men is the first Bronze Age comic, then why would I want to talk to him? My wall would make a more invigorating conversationalist.

 

Hint: Compile a Marvel release calender and check out what books came out AFTER Giant-Size X-Men around 1975-1980, and then do the same for those that appeared between 1970 and 1975.

 

If 75-80 is the Bronze Age, then I want no part of it.

[comicinvestor-migration]

" might also add as inbetween S.A. and B.A. debate about Conan being the start of the B.A., what about MOKF(master of kung fu), that came out in 1973-74 only to hop on the martial arts bandwagon, so that makes Conan a certifiable "NO" as the start of the B.A."

 

Why is this so obviously true again?

 

I see absolutely no similarities between thr Fantastic Four and the Hulk, or between the Hulk and Ant-Man. How in the world could one single book emulate every single genre and character sub-type that followed it?

 

All are super-heroes, and even then The Hulk was more of an Atomic Frankenstein Monster on the loose and far, far removed for any other Marvel hero book. I guess that means that FF didn't actually begin the Marvel Silver Age?

 

When you quote that guy from CBG who thinks the Bronze Age began in 1975, it makes my head hurt. Do you really want me to list all the Key Bronze Age books, characters and first appearances that were pre-1975?

 

How about just two:

 

Hulk 181 and Amazing Spider-man #129

 

How you can have a Bronze Age without theintroduction of two of its most important characters is beyond me. But I guess the CBG guy has a good reason for this....

[FlyingDonut]

"If you were buying comics in 1975-76 you would know this and quickly realize that the New X-Men is a Modern phenomonen that had little or nothing to do with the Bronze Age."

 

Sorry, CI, but on this one you're wrong. At least in the Chicago area, the "New X-Men" were the absolute hottest thing out there from at least X-Men 96 on. As an example - I had a booth at the Chicago Comicon in 1977 (I was 12, that's a whole other story) and my friends and I sold all of our X-Men for 3x and 4x Overstreet Guide (which, admittedly, at the time was about $2 each).

 

I can tell you stories about buying and selling X-Men 94s at Chicago shows for good money before Byrne came on board. Here's the bad one...I passed on the original art for the cover of X-Men 94 in 1980 for $200. Too much money for my 15-year-old wallet... .

 

But I agree that GS X-Men 1 is too late for the Bronze Age. I'd go with Conan 1. I'd put the end later than most, Crisis 1 and Secret Wars 8.

[Guest]

I gotta disagree with you, FD. I was still able to pick up new X-mens in the bargain bin at the local Genovese Drugs when I was a kid in NY over a year after publication, all the way through #110.

 

In contrast, when I went to the Creation cons in NY all the way through 1978, fans were still preoccupied with Conan and the Wrightson issues of Swamp Thing. This was especially true in contemporary issues of CBG. Frankly, at shows at this time, there was more interest in the Invaders than X-men, and the only other BA books that dealers didn't snear at were issues from the Kree-Skrull war and Starlin's Capt. Marvel.

 

I do agree with you on the end of the BA though.

 

[underthebigw]

Sorry for the above anonymous post.

 

 

[supapimp]

odin my father,

 

according to craig shutt of CBG ask mr. silverage the end of the B.A. was legends of the dark knight. anybody on this board that disagrees with Giant Size X-Men # 1 being the start of the B.A. please start you arguements now, Conan # 1 was not the start of the B.A., and yes Tomb of Dracula is not part of the B.A. Action # 1 started the super hoero age, Showcase # 4 started the revitaliztion of super-heros, and Giant Size X-Men started intrest in super-heros again between Marvel and DC. Yes, there was gaps inbetween the ages, that's why Conan # 1 is not the start of the B.A. As mentioned in CBG 1497 via Craig Schutt, 1951-1956 (the Atomic Age?), second gap (1970-1975 Monster Age?) GL/GA 76 was a great issue, but has no catalyst to the B.A.

[Bronty]

Although you are the friendly neighborhood chinaman, I cannot agree with you. I agree wholeheartedly with most of CI's comments.

 

Supapimp, what I would suggest that if GSX 1 is the start of any age, it is the start of the MODERN age. Think about that. The Byrne X-mens that were a result of GSX 1 have way more in common with Thor 337 than with Tomb of Dracula 1. And Thor 337 is categorically not a Bronze age book! By GSX 1, the experimentation with different genres had ended and Marvel and DC had stabilized and returned to a more straightforward hero book.

 

The bronze age is 70-74, if you want to call it a brief age that ends at 74/75 I have no problem with that, that's probably accurate. Books did have a very different flavour in 70-74 than in 75-79 so it was a short lived age.

 

GSX 1 is the start of the modern age!!!

[supapimp]

Bronty,

 

you been smokin crack? if the B.A. is 70-74 then that's got to be the shortest age of all. even CGC says modern age is 90's to present, the B.A. starts with GS XMEN 1, what else in your bronze age (70-74) that was a catalyst of things to come? and don't tell me Howard the Duck.

[Bronty]

You're the crack-smokin' pimp!!

 

Seriously though, the way I see things is that there is one age from the late 60s to the mid 70s, another from the mid 70s to late 80s, another from the late 80s to present.

 

That would put GSX 1 at the beginning of the mid 70s to late 80s age, whatever we want to call that!!