Dishonest Seller

[VintageComics]

Understood.

 

(thumbs u

 

The problem is trying to convey a bunch of info to a consumer, before you lose their attention span.

 

Can you give me the Cliff's Notes version, Roy?

 

WaltT/bucone/alleybat/royig came on here trying to badmouth Filter81 about a book he had for sale.

Adam did nothing wrong.

Book was in a blue label with glue/ct notation

big debate begins regarding CGC's decision making for label colors and putting GA books with insignificant amount of resto into blue label holders.

RMA posts.

Everybody leaves.

 

 

[lizards2]

Understood.

 

(thumbs u

 

The problem is trying to convey a bunch of info to a consumer, before you lose their attention span.

 

Can you give me the Cliff's Notes version, Roy?

 

WaltT/bucone/alleybat/royig came on here trying to badmouth Filter81 about a book he had for sale.

Adam did nothing wrong.

Book was in a blue label with glue/ct notation

big debate begins regarding CGC's decision making for label colors and putting GA books with insignificant amount of resto into blue label holders.

RMA posts.

Everybody leaves.

 

 

That's even longer than your original post

[VintageComics]

Understood.

 

(thumbs u

 

The problem is trying to convey a bunch of info to a consumer, before you lose their attention span.

 

Can you give me the Cliff's Notes version, Roy?

 

WaltT/bucone/alleybat/royig came on here trying to badmouth Filter81 about a book he had for sale.

Adam did nothing wrong.

Book was in a blue label with glue/ct notation

big debate begins regarding CGC's decision making for label colors and putting GA books with insignificant amount of resto into blue label holders.

RMA posts.

Everybody leaves.

 

 

That's even longer than your original post

 

...oh yeah, the word "longer" reminded me: There was also begging and crying for sex involved.

 

[lizards2]

Understood.

 

(thumbs u

 

The problem is trying to convey a bunch of info to a consumer, before you lose their attention span.

 

Can you give me the Cliff's Notes version, Roy?

 

WaltT/bucone/alleybat/royig came on here trying to badmouth Filter81 about a book he had for sale.

Adam did nothing wrong.

Book was in a blue label with glue/ct notation

big debate begins regarding CGC's decision making for label colors and putting GA books with insignificant amount of resto into blue label holders.

RMA posts.

Everybody leaves.

 

 

That's even longer than your original post

 

...oh yeah, the word "longer" reminded me: There was also begging and crying for sex involved.

 

longer does not = better....,

[VintageComics]

Understood.

 

(thumbs u

 

The problem is trying to convey a bunch of info to a consumer, before you lose their attention span.

 

Can you give me the Cliff's Notes version, Roy?

 

WaltT/bucone/alleybat/royig came on here trying to badmouth Filter81 about a book he had for sale.

Adam did nothing wrong.

Book was in a blue label with glue/ct notation

big debate begins regarding CGC's decision making for label colors and putting GA books with insignificant amount of resto into blue label holders.

RMA posts.

Everybody leaves.

 

 

That's even longer than your original post

 

...oh yeah, the word "longer" reminded me: There was also begging and crying for sex involved.

 

longer does not = better....,

 

I keep trying to tell people that...

[Bruce1971]

By the way....to all you guys saying restored books are "harder to sell"...

 

No they're not.

 

I'll happily and gladly buy every single restored GA book anyone has, so long as the price is right.

 

Every single one. You have a restored Bats #6, for $20? I'll buy it and be ecstatic.

 

No, restored books are "harder to sell at the prices people want them to be worth." THAT'S the real issue.

 

There is a substantial market for restored books, so long as the price is right and restoration is disclosed.

 

 

Pretty weak argument. Offering less then 1/20th of good for a book is not much of an argument. I would buy coverless Batman #6's all day long at $25 each. So I guess these means restored books are worth less than coverless books? To tell you the truth, at those type of prices my favorite buys would be buying coverless Action #1's at 1/20 of Overstreet good. I am a guide behind, but even if Action #1 doubled in guide from $2000 to $4000 plus an extra 20% over what you offer for restored books is what I will offer for coverless Action #1, so $5000. I can pay that all day long. Since I am a nice guy and I know how the economy is bad for everyone I will actually offer double for all restored Action #1's, $10,000 per copy to help spur the economy. This offer is only good until the Bush tax cuts are cancelled

 

Restored books are generally harder to sell at a "fair price" compared to a book that has similar defects that are deemed to be non restorative. Obviously some exceptions apply, such as books that very rarely come to market "Amazing Man #26" or books that are in very high demand and still scarer "pre-robin Detectives" and "Mega Keys".

 

The problem is grading should be completely technical with a premium added for eye appeal. The reality is grading is mostly technical with a lot of exceptions. Manufacturing defects, a 1/8 tear is a 1/8 tear on a book, who cares if it is a bindery defect. How about Marvel chipping. So what if most, or even all, copies of that book have Marvel chipping. Do all books have Marvel chipping, no. Therefore it is a defect that should count as much as any other loss of paper. How about a defect that is meant to restore vs an accident.

 

Tape vs archival tape, so your telling me it's better to add regular scotch tape to my books instead of archival tape? I would also like anyone to tell me why a name written on a cover is better then 1/4 of the same ink, from the same pen, being applied as color touch. Remember no feelings are allowed, this is purely a technical grading exercise. Also take into account this is a CGC graded book, so there is no intent to deceive.

 

The reality is a restored book should sell for around the lessor of the two prices listed below:

 

Cost of the original grade plus restoration.

or

The price of a similar book with a similar type of "defect". Such as colour touch or a name on cover or tape vs archival tape.

 

 

 

 

[500Club]

However, I do have a problem with 'preserving the value'. CGC should not be here to 'preserve the value', but rather clearly and unambiguously state facts. The market then determines value.

And this.

The problem is that CGC's decision to place the books into different holders affected the books in an inverse relationship, and not because the restored books were any different (same restored books, previously raw, now in purple labels), but because they were stigmatized.

Valid point. Purple has come to equal bad. I'm not sure I see a way around this, though, other than to use all blue labels, with resto notes where appropriate. That'd be a scammer's dream - hazy eBay and CLink scans would abound.

[dupont2005]

[G.A.tor]

I think I would prefer a 1/4 pounder with cheese to a big mac

[comicdonna]

He should wear a name tag at the NYCC!

[Filter81]

The same amount of explaining has to take place when a restored book is raw versus it being in a holder. Difference is you can show a person the work raw versus what the label states. Hopefully the restoration paperwork (that somehow always disappears) comes along with the book.

 

You can't tell me that this type of sale is a smooth and easy one.

 

Imagine it going like this

 

Customer "Is the book restored"

 

Feel free to insert "answer here". Well, humada, humada, not according to my sole discretion but because everybody who sold it before me said that dot of color touch isn't really there I believe that it's not really there.

 

Feel free to insert "CGC Answer here". Customer "Is the book restored".

 

Well, Sole discretion states that technically this is a blue label that normally means unrestored but in this case it isn't.

 

Turn around, put book back into box or back on wall.

 

Take another bite out of Big Mac.

 

 

Bob,

 

I have a lot of respect for you and this post is written with love. And I'm not going to debate the merits of blue label vs purple label with you because quite frankly I think the view points of both sides have merit. Personally I've never had a really strong opinion about label notes one way or the other. But its clear to me that your blatent resto-phobia is affecting your usually calm, even-tempered demeanor and your judgement is becoming affected!!

 

Sure, there are always buyers who won't buy a book with label notes. But in my experience, the majority of buyers don't really care. (In my opinion a book that has one dot of glue that doesn't affect the book or grade in any way is less restored than a book that has been super-heated to 300 degrees and smooshed from an 8.0 into a 9.4 but I guess everyone will have their own opinions!)

 

To compare this book with a hypothetical scenario where a dealer says "color touch isn't there because I believe it isn't there" is crazy and makes no sense. The CT is noted right on the label. The CGC label doesn't say "there's no color touch to see here, move along" On blue label books with notes, the information is there, and the buyer is able to make an informed decision and come to their own conclusions regarding whether or not they are interested in the book.

 

There's no undisclosed information. To me the idea that if a book has a dot of glue or ct so minor that the appearance/grade of the book is not enhance in any way it becomes looked at as a defect instead of restoration makes sense. (Should a book be more desirable if instead of a small dot of glue it had a big piece of tape? Because that wouldn't be restoration right?)

 

In any event, all the information is available to the buyer. So really I guess it all comes down to value. As a hypothetical, if someone were to take the Mile High Action 1 and put one tiny red dot of ct on the cover, how much should its value drop? $1million? $2million? Should it be worth less than the 8.0 that just sold now? No restored Action 1 has ever sold for more than $150k. And 2.5s sell for more than that now. So I guess the Mile High copy is now worth less than that 2.5 with the mold and giant piece out of the cover. (Stupid dot!)

 

Getting back to the Cap 1 in the thread, how much should its value be affected by the label note? Well, first it is my understanding that it only goes into a blue label if the work done is so minor that it does not enhance the appearance or grade of the book. Second, my understanding is the label notes are treated as a "defect". I remember having a discussion with someone once about a MMC5 CGC 4.0 with a small dot of color touch, where I was told the grade was dropped 0.5 because of the CT and if you cut the piece of the cover with the CT off the new grade would be 4.5.

 

I'm not sure if this is true, but if it is, what would the grade have been on this Cap 1? 7.0? So have the label notes already been factored in to the value of the book?

 

Or to put it another way, if you had to choose between these two copies you're saying my copy should be valued at a fraction of what the other one is worth? Despite the tanning, lesser PQ, and giant pencil erasure marks? Because if I were looking at these two copies in hand and the price was the SAME, I'd buy my copy all day long and twice on Sundays, invisible restoration or not!

 

[blazingbob]

I'll sum it up as this.

 

If those two books were AF #15's one would be purple, the other would be blue.

 

What's the difference? Why should GA be treated any differently.

 

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

I remember having a discussion with someone once about a MMC5 CGC 4.0 with a small dot of color touch, where I was told the grade was dropped 0.5 because of the CT and if you cut the piece of the cover with the CT off the new grade would be 4.5.

 

That was my book. The new owner is also fully aware of the noted "color touch" on the blue label and is extremely happy with the book.

 

You are correct, snip the part of the book with color touch off and the grade would effectively go up because that tiny dot was a defect that brought the grade down.

 

Anybody that wants the back story can read all about the book here. Not everyone agreed with CGC that it was even color touch.

[Filter81]

I'll sum it up as this.

 

If those two books were AF #15's one would be purple, the other would be blue.

 

What's the difference? Why should GA be treated any differently.

 

 

 

 

I agree. I don't think they should be treated differently. I think CGC should in BOTH cases use blue labels or purple labels. Whichever way they choose to go I think they should be consistent.

[oakman29]

I'll sum it up as this.

 

If those two books were AF #15's one would be purple, the other would be blue.

 

What's the difference? Why should GA be treated any differently.

 

 

 

 

I agree with you Bob,grading should be the same across the board GA,SA,BA and so on.

[Bosco685]

I'll sum it up as this.

 

If those two books were AF #15's one would be purple, the other would be blue.

 

What's the difference? Why should GA be treated any differently.

 

I agree with you Bob,grading should be the same across the board GA,SA,BA and so on.

I'm totally on board with wanting to have a common expectation for grading, but wasn't the reason for the different standard for Golden Age was due to the production process compared to the later ages?

 

If not, sorry for my mistake. I don't collect books from this age.

[royig-migration]

He should have specified to give price when showing books. That is my one pet peeve of sellers that ask to give offer. I feel that they are just trying to see if the buyer is unknowing and leech them for every dollar they can get with maybe a bonus of ignorance dollars.

 

 

If you never pointed that out in the thread either tell them you don't do offers and to give you a price or give them serious offer.

 

If you did specify it then lowball them.

 

In this case the guy said he didnt want to get rid of book really and asked for price and that would have clued me in to that the book would probably be overpriced anyways and would have moved on. Also seen sellers that do this on purpose and act as if the book is special to them so they can get that extra greedy dollar. This may not be the case in this scenario but it happens.

 

 

Whisp you sorta got it, but the bottom line this is a greedy seller/dealer.

[Boozad]

He should have specified to give price when showing books. That is my one pet peeve of sellers that ask to give offer. I feel that they are just trying to see if the buyer is unknowing and leech them for every dollar they can get with maybe a bonus of ignorance dollars.

 

 

If you never pointed that out in the thread either tell them you don't do offers and to give you a price or give them serious offer.

 

If you did specify it then lowball them.

 

In this case the guy said he didnt want to get rid of book really and asked for price and that would have clued me in to that the book would probably be overpriced anyways and would have moved on. Also seen sellers that do this on purpose and act as if the book is special to them so they can get that extra greedy dollar. This may not be the case in this scenario but it happens.

 

 

Whisp you sorta got it, but the bottom line this is a greedy seller/dealer.

 

No he's not. Read the whole thread which explains in great detail what a tool you are.

[Filter81]

He should have specified to give price when showing books. That is my one pet peeve of sellers that ask to give offer. I feel that they are just trying to see if the buyer is unknowing and leech them for every dollar they can get with maybe a bonus of ignorance dollars.

 

 

If you never pointed that out in the thread either tell them you don't do offers and to give you a price or give them serious offer.

 

If you did specify it then lowball them.

 

In this case the guy said he didnt want to get rid of book really and asked for price and that would have clued me in to that the book would probably be overpriced anyways and would have moved on. Also seen sellers that do this on purpose and act as if the book is special to them so they can get that extra greedy dollar. This may not be the case in this scenario but it happens.

 

 

Whisp you sorta got it, but the bottom line this is a greedy seller/dealer.

 

OH lord. You haven't been banned yet, Harold? What are we paying these mods for anyway?

[royig-migration]

For those that don't know, any book with color touch or restoration will only receive a purple label if the color touch or restoration actually improves the grade of the book.

 

If the color touch or restoration does not improve the grade of the book, the book goes into a blue label with a notation on the label of the color touch and glue.

 

Are you talking only GA there, Roy?

 

Sorry, yes. GA only.

 

 

Are you sure? I've seen lots of low grade GA books with color touch that didn't seem to improve anything. And I think we've all seen PLODs in "apparent poor" .5 condition.

becomes an issue of "quantity" of color touch or glue...if there is an obvious amount, regardless of whether it visually improves or not, then it is "restored"...if the quantity is so minor as to not affect the grade, an in theory be removable and not affect grade, this just clarifies that (from what I understand)

in other words, if someone scraped that teeny bit of glue and color touch off, it would still be a 6.5...so, cgc notes it...

 

If it was up to Bluechip, they'd all be in Blue labels and there would be no such thing as Restoration

 

This is true. You should check out this tools ebay auctions.