Scammed on E-Bay

[Batty Scrooge]

Hey guys, first time poster here, I've been lurking for a bit, was hoping for a happier first post, but you know how life goes I've been collecting comics since being a kid, but just started getting into the CGC stuff with more of a investor/collector mindset. Anyway, I bought a bunch of 9.8 CGC books off Byron at TVcomics and now I'm hooked!! That guy is really awesome, but enough about me, let me get to my rant cuz getting burned hurts!

 

I won an auction for Batman: The Dark Knight Returns #1 CGC'd @ 9.2

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160479997928&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_1546wt_1137

 

It closed at 22.95 and other that the high shipping, I thought it would make a nice reference book for what a 9.2 grade looks like. Got the package in a couple days, and excitedly opened it, you should have seen my face drop as soon as I took it out of the wrapping. I don't have alot of CGC books, but I knew something was wrong, the cover felt loose unlike all my others. There looked to be scuff marks in the case on the ride hand side in the middle along the seam, but I wanted to believe it was just due to it being an older slab (The serial number is much lower than my other books) so I immediately e-mailed the seller and let him know I had some concerns and would be taking it to an authorized CGC dealer the next day for their opinion.

 

I know you guys like full disclosure on these matters, so below is my communication with the seller for reference.

 

-------------------- His reply -----------------------------------

Dear cvmaas77,

 

Hello, I'm sorry to hear about the order. I'm not sure how this could happen. I over see everything. When I list a book I look over carefully looking for any defects like cracks, chips or loose cases. The same is done at the time of packaging using a sturdy box, bubble wrap and packaging peanuts so that your book will get to you safely. eBay award me a above standard rating for the way do business. I'm not sure what I can do at point.

Respectfully Johnny at Star Gate Comics.

 

- loza5078

Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply

 

--------------------------Original Message voicing concerns-----------------

 

 

From: cvmaas77

To: loza5078

Subject: cvmaas77 has sent a question about item #160479997928, that ended on Sep-18-10 14:23:20 PDT - Batman Dark Knight Returns # 1 CGC 9.2 Frank Miller Art

Sent Date: Sep-24-10 12:53:19 PDT

 

 

 

Dear loza5078,

 

Wanted to let you know I received the book,

but the case appears to have been cracked open.

There was no damage to the shipping container, and

seemed welled packed. However, when handling the

item I can feel the case shifting as if the covers

aren't properly attached. On the right hand side

there appear to be scuff marks at the seam where

the case was cracked open. Lightly pushing up on

the top cover on this spot I am able to easily

separate the covers. This may be due to the case

being an older slab than my other CGC books, the

serial number is certainly much lower, but I can't

tell. I will be taking the book to my local

authorized CGC dealer tomorrow to have them look

at it.

 

I know you don't accept returns, nor would it make

sense for me to pay $11 to return a $23 item, but

if the case has been opened I won't be able to do

anything with it short of fully opening it and

reading it,or sending to CGC to be re-certified

and will have to reflect that in feedback

 

- cvmaas77

 

So I took the slab to the dealer (Zapp Comics in Wayne, NJ), and within 10s, before I even told him what I wanted him to look at, he told me the case had clearly been opened because the comic was not inside of the archival bag and looked to be a lower grade.

 

Now I have a $34 reading copy of a book I already own in low grade! Live and learn, but this guy had really good feedback, how could I have known?

 

Funny thing is, I felt uncomfortable with this auction from the closing minutes! It started @ $19.95, I put my bid in, and about 15m proir to the ending these bids come in (The seller made it a private auction, can't see the bidder) that pushed me up a few dollers 1 bidding increment at a time, and immediately said to myself "WTH, this guy is walking me up looking for my max bid, looking to see where my automatic bids stop going up a full increment" atleast thats how it felt!

 

But once I got the book and looked the serial number up on GPA (#0081032001), can't say I was surprised to see this slab last trade back in march for the low price of this auctions starting bid!

 

I only got burned for $34, but wanted to let you guys know and thank you for all the E-Bay detective work that you do on these forums! I certainly learned my lesson to try and be more careful!

[royig-migration]

Hey guys, first time poster here, I've been lurking for a bit, was hoping for a happier first post, but you know how life goes I've been collecting comics since being a kid, but just started getting into the CGC stuff with more of a investor/collector mindset. Anyway, I bought a bunch of 9.8 CGC books off Byron at TVcomics and now I'm hooked!! That guy is really awesome, but enough about me, let me get to my rant cuz getting burned hurts!

 

I won an auction for Batman: The Dark Knight Returns #1 CGC'd @ 9.2

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160479997928&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_1546wt_1137

 

It closed at 22.95 and other that the high shipping, I thought it would make a nice reference book for what a 9.2 grade looks like. Got the package in a couple days, and excitedly opened it, you should have seen my face drop as soon as I took it out of the wrapping. I don't have alot of CGC books, but I knew something was wrong, the cover felt loose unlike all my others. There looked to be scuff marks in the case on the ride hand side in the middle along the seam, but I wanted to believe it was just due to it being an older slab (The serial number is much lower than my other books) so I immediately e-mailed the seller and let him know I had some concerns and would be taking it to an authorized CGC dealer the next day for their opinion.

 

I know you guys like full disclosure on these matters, so below is my communication with the seller for reference.

 

-------------------- His reply -----------------------------------

Dear cvmaas77,

 

Hello, I'm sorry to hear about the order. I'm not sure how this could happen. I over see everything. When I list a book I look over carefully looking for any defects like cracks, chips or loose cases. The same is done at the time of packaging using a sturdy box, bubble wrap and packaging peanuts so that your book will get to you safely. eBay award me a above standard rating for the way do business. I'm not sure what I can do at point.

Respectfully Johnny at Star Gate Comics.

 

- loza5078

Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply

 

--------------------------Original Message voicing concerns-----------------

 

 

From: cvmaas77

To: loza5078

Subject: cvmaas77 has sent a question about item #160479997928, that ended on Sep-18-10 14:23:20 PDT - Batman Dark Knight Returns # 1 CGC 9.2 Frank Miller Art

Sent Date: Sep-24-10 12:53:19 PDT

 

 

 

Dear loza5078,

 

Wanted to let you know I received the book,

but the case appears to have been cracked open.

There was no damage to the shipping container, and

seemed welled packed. However, when handling the

item I can feel the case shifting as if the covers

aren't properly attached. On the right hand side

there appear to be scuff marks at the seam where

the case was cracked open. Lightly pushing up on

the top cover on this spot I am able to easily

separate the covers. This may be due to the case

being an older slab than my other CGC books, the

serial number is certainly much lower, but I can't

tell. I will be taking the book to my local

authorized CGC dealer tomorrow to have them look

at it.

 

I know you don't accept returns, nor would it make

sense for me to pay $11 to return a $23 item, but

if the case has been opened I won't be able to do

anything with it short of fully opening it and

reading it,or sending to CGC to be re-certified

and will have to reflect that in feedback

 

- cvmaas77

 

So I took the slab to the dealer (Zapp Comics in Wayne, NJ), and within 10s, before I even told him what I wanted him to look at, he told me the case had clearly been opened because the comic was not inside of the archival bag and looked to be a lower grade.

 

Now I have a $34 reading copy of a book I already own in low grade! Live and learn, but this guy had really good feedback, how could I have known?

 

Funny thing is, I felt uncomfortable with this auction from the closing minutes! It started @ $19.95, I put my bid in, and about 15m proir to the ending these bids come in (The seller made it a private auction, can't see the bidder) that pushed me up a few dollers 1 bidding increment at a time, and immediately said to myself "WTH, this guy is walking me up looking for my max bid, looking to see where my automatic bids stop going up a full increment" atleast thats how it felt!

 

But once I got the book and looked the serial number up on GPA (#0081032001), can't say I was surprised to see this slab last trade back in march for the low price of this auctions starting bid!

 

I only got burned for $34, but wanted to let you guys know and thank you for all the E-Bay detective work that you do on these forums! I certainly learned my lesson to try and be more careful!

 

thought books cracked out of a CGC case couldn't be reused.

 

 

[comixcroz]

 

sounds weird - why would someone crack open a Dark Knight 1 in 9.2 and put in a lower graded copy? I'm failing to see the motivation for this scam. Its not like 9.2s of this book are hard to come by raw. Does it look like the same book in the scan on the ebay auction? Also, what is an archival bag? are you referring to the inner well? Is it possible the case just got cracked in transit?

 

[mschmidt]

Welcome to the boards!

 

Post some pictures of the book, so we can see what you're talking about - the easiest way to spot whether a CGC case has been tampered with is to check the corner posts. There are 4 of them - the rounded posts in the corners of each slab. If you look at them from the side, you can easily see whether they're intact or not.

 

If 2 or more of those are cracked, the book could very well have been swapped out.

[Warren Oates]

If the book was not damaged in transit you should be fine. Was the box smashed on arrival? If not then he sent you a slab that was tampered with. I'm sure you paid by paypal, so your purchase is covered by them. Also if you let the seller know you will be forced to leave neg feedback if he does not accept a return, he very likely will accept return.

 

good luck

[comicgrinder]

[Speedy-D]

sounds weird - why would someone crack open a Dark Knight 1 in 9.2 and put in a lower graded copy? I'm failing to see the motivation for this scam. Its not like 9.2s of this book are hard to come by raw. Does it look like the same book in the scan on the ebay auction? Also, what is an archival bag? are you referring to the inner well? Is it possible the case just got cracked in transit?

The photo in the listing is too blurry to see, so a comparison may not be possible. But why would someone go through this trouble and risk bad feedback on a 9.2 common comic?

 

B.S., when you say "the comic was not inside of the archival bag." do you mean the inner well is missing? If so, the thing's blatantly been tampered with. Can you clarify?

[Sal]

This scenario is a giant for me. Why would someone try and run a scam on a $20 book that's plentiful in HG? The risk / reward ration is in negative territory.

 

Based on the OP, I'm more confident that the LCS owner doesn't know what he's talking about than any sort of scam was perpetrated here

[towards2112]

I smell fish.

[oakman29]

something does'nt gel here.Show us a scan of the book so we can fully understand what your talking about.

[DR.X]

something does'nt gel here.Show us a scan of the book so we can fully understand what your talking about.

 

+1

 

I agree with some of the other posters. Did you check if the posts are cracked? Is there an inner well? Show us some pics. Seems odd a seller with a high feedback count and 100% rating would try and pull something on a book like this.

 

 

DR.X

[towards2112]

Me is alzo curious about the OP being a drive by 1 post, and just a

few minutes later, the KING OF THE FUGGIN' SHILLS chimes in with

his ANALization.

[Aaronius]

[Batty Scrooge]

Any suggestions on how to get a good pic of the case without the light reflecting off? I'd like to show what the CGC dealer showed me with the interior well, but its hard to show without the glare off the top cover, but the book is not sealed inside of the inner well. It just slides back and forth and you can see its not sealed. The soft interior well is supposed to be sealed is it not? So if you cracked the case open you would have to cut open the archive bag inside.

 

1 of the 4 posts is clearly broken in the middle of the post, 2 others appear to be broken just at the base of the post, but its harder to tell for sure. I will get some closeup pics of the posts and put them up on here.

 

As to why someone would scam on a $20 book? Wish I knew, or wish someone would tell me its ok for the case to be loose. Even better, wish someone would buy this off me without saying I am a fraud!

 

I do know there is quite a bit of dust and dirt inside of the case.

 

Sorry, but I couldn't compare the books directly against the pic as the pic on the auction wasn't that good. I thought that and the high shipping where the reasons for the lack of bids so I took a chance and threw in a bid.

[Bosco685]

Any suggestions on how to get a good pic of the case without the light reflecting off?

At an angle helps.

[Batty Scrooge]

Took a few pics, tried my best to get some with the flash both on a off, next question, how do I attached them?!?!

[ImageMask]

Did you use paypal?

 

If the post are broken and the inner well is absent tell the seller you are filing a dispute.

 

See what his reply is.

 

No need to make this difficult.

 

WTTB to you and all other new members this Sunday.

[Batty Scrooge]

http://db.tt/cci5MHk

http://db.tt/Hq5arhn

http://db.tt/0t1SaDJ

http://db.tt/ImH2Tpk

 

I put some of the pics in my dropbox, links above.

[DR.X]

Odd way to introduce yourself here IMO. I really dont know what there is to think about here. The listing clearly states "THERE ARE NO CRACKS OR CHIPS IN THE CASE."

If there are three broken posts the item was mis-represented and I would send it back reagardless and ask for a full refund including shipping. Just my opinion. He has a good feedback record and I dont think he wants to risk getting a negative dropped on him for a book like this. Send it back. Case closed.

 

 

DR.X

 

 

[Batty Scrooge]

Used paypal, but it defaulted to pay out of my back account for that transaction, and I missed it at the checkout to change the account to the credit card. (Every time I pay, paypal tries to default to using my bank account so they don't have to hear it from my credit card co)