I recently purchased a CGG graded comic....and guess what?

[MW1]

Here's a link to the auction -- ASM #122, CGG 9.4

 

Over the past several months, I have read many of the discussions about CGG graded comics on these forums, but to be perfectly fair to them, I wanted to purchase a comic and find out for myself what their grading standards are like.

 

My analysis:

 

ASM #122 (CGG 9.4, serial #501014844) has been trimmed on both the top and bottom edges. The angle of the cut is not consistent from corner to corner and there are significant alignment problems between the cover and the pages. I'm an expert in baseball cards, not comic books, but I'd judge the alterations to be the work of an amateur.

 

I'll give the seller a chance to give me a refund, otherwise negative feedback will be forthcoming.

[BassGMan]

I wouldn't be so quick to press that negative button. Many comics are cut out of alignment. It is actually a very common occurance. And many times the cover does not match up square with the interior pages. Or, it could have been trimmed. I realize that until recently CGG has not had restoration detection services, but that does not mean that this book went by unnoticed. It may not be trimmed. I would have someone that really knows what they are doing look at the book first. My guess: the book was just miscut. -----Sid

[MW1]

I'd be happy to send the comic to a recognized expert on the forum and pay for postage both ways. Suggestions?

[BassGMan]

That may be a hassle for you. If there are any local comic books shops around you I would call and ask if anyone working there is familiar with resoration and especially trimming and see what they have to say. Also, if you could scan some close-up images of this book showing all the edges very cleary (better than in that Ebay listing) then maybe some experts here (not me, I'm not an expert in this kind of thing at all) then maybe you can get help here if you attach the scans to a post. I admit, when looking at the back cover on the Ebay scan it does look slanted improperly on the top edge, but maybe that is just the scan, or maybe a printing flaw, or maybe a trim. I dunno. Other than the top on the back cover it looks fairly normal to me. Good luck. ----Sid

[Rob]

I'd be happy to send the comic to a recognized expert on the forum and pay for postage both ways. Suggestions?

 

For that kind of investment, I would consider submitting to CGC and see what they think.

[FFB]

You can hire Matt Nelson to perform a restoration check on the book for $30-$60, depending on the value of the book. His website is www.comicrestoration.com

 

You can also post large scans on the website for us to see, but it's hard (though not always impossible) to judge trimming merely from a scan.

 

I'd be happy to send the comic to a recognized expert on the forum and pay for postage both ways. Suggestions?

[rob_react]

I wouldn't be so quick to press that negative button. Many comics are cut out of alignment.

 

Here's an example I love to trot out at moments like this:

 

[Murph]

I assume since MW1 is such a big card seller and has lots of experience in the hobby, that he can detect trimming on cards? Sure it's not the same to be able to detect resoration on comics vs cards, perhaps he should send it in to Matt Nelson. Would be interesting to see what Matt comes up with.

 

Brian

[BassGMan]

I thought about this situation some more and if you haven't already, I would seriously hesitate on demanding a refund from the seller. First off, in my opinion it is probably not trimmed. Even if it was, the seller may have no idea about it as he may have bought the book as is. Second, whether it is or not, and if the buyer thinks it is not, he may believe that you are a problem buyer and regretting your purchase once that you had received the book by concocting some false allegations about trimming. YOU may end up looking like the bad guy here. If you have already written the seller, I would write back ASAP, apologize for the quick accusation, take back your threats and politely tell him you will get back to him once that you have verified the trimming (or lack of trimming) by an expert. Good luck. -----Sid

[rob_react]

I assume since MW1 is such a big card seller and has lots of experience in the hobby, that he can detect trimming on cards? Sure it's not the same to be able to detect resoration on comics vs cards, perhaps he should send it in to Matt Nelson. Would be interesting to see what Matt comes up with.

 

My gut is leaning towards "nothing" just based on the fact that there are so many 60s and 70s Marvels that feature production defects like that. Forgive me if I'm misreading the situation, but as far as I can tell the ONLY reason MW1 decided the book was trimmed by an amateur is because he saw an angled miscut and thought "there's no way it could have come from the printing plant like that." Of course, scores of books DID come from the plant like that, so that sort of eyeballing is the last thing you want to do when it comes to detecting an after-market trim. I don't know, maybe the first thing you do when you're looking at a card is check that it's a perfect rectangle that fits some exact dimensions. Doing that with comics would lead to a ton of false positives.

[fantastic_four]

Can you post scans and/or digital camera pictures of the top and bottom edge and point out in the scans what makes you think the book is trimmed? If you did this, we might be able to give you a better indication about whether your fears are unfounded or not.

 

If I had sold this book to you and you told me you thought it was trimmed, I'd think you were either excessively nervous or excessively arrogant to think that you know more about detecting trimmed comics than the guys at CGG. I'm certainly not saying it's not possible you do know more than them based upon your experience with cards, but I do know that it's uncertain how well that knowledge translates into detecting trimming with comics.

[comicwiz]

MW1

 

Looking at the scan/photo provided on the auction, I don't think the image is really going to give anyone here an opportunity to provide a proper assessment. That said, it is also sometimes very difficult to give a proper determination on trim vs manufactured miscuts from a scan alone.

 

If you are at all apprehensive about the book being trimmed, my best piece of advice is to ask the seller for a refund. You can make the refund contingent on further expert verification, but if he's easy-going, just get your money back. Don't waste any time debating the matter. If the seller doesn't offer a refund, I would be very cautious about leaving a neg because I don't believe you ought to be making any claims about the book being trimmed without a restoration expert looking at it first.

 

From a time and economy standpoint, I would send it to CGC through their Express service and have them look at it. A resto assessment will likely run you between $50-$75 (not including shipping), so your almost better off getting a resto-check and get it graded all at once. You should even be able to do all of this before the 90-day period for leaving feedback.

 

From what little I see from the auction image, it appears that you may be mistaken with a case of a comic possessing a manufactured miscut. If you can get a higher-res scan, send it to me and I'll host if for you here, if needed.

[Rip]

It could be trimmed, but I'm leaning towards no

[garthgantu]

Man, I love you guys!

 

If you stumbled upon this thread outta left field, you'd think MW1 had found some secret lair of comic book PhDs on the Web - and he has! You all sound like anthropologists at the British Museum looking at a dubious fossil or something... and I mean this in the best possible way

[Timely]

I'd be happy to send the comic to a recognized expert on the forum and pay for postage both ways. Suggestions?

 

You could always send it to this guy named Steve at this place called CGC, I hear they check for things like trimming. I think they actually grade books too!

 

Timely

[Smokinghawk]

Of course, scores of books DID come from the plant like that, so that sort of eyeballing is the last thing you want to do when it comes to detecting an after-market trim. I don't know, maybe the first thing you do when you're looking at a card is check that it's a perfect rectangle that fits some exact dimensions. Doing that with comics would lead to a ton of false positives.

 

 

NO doubt--remember that we've even discussed that very ish of ASM because that cover has been cut so weird so often that some don't even have the blue car on the bridge at the far right, and some show the blue car completely. We've even seen auctions that make a point of displaying the blue car as an examle of how their copy is "better."

 

I've got plenty of Bronze ASM's that are cut badly so that the black title banner is angled against the top edge.

[joe_collector]

Why is everyone playing "be nice to CGG". or is that most of you mistakenly think it's a CGC book?

 

Greggy posted some pretty compelling evidence on the VF bettyswalls copies that were sent in to CGG and received NM grades... and had slightly "different" edges, so why is this potential case being swept under the carpet?

[fantastic_four]

Why is everyone playing "be nice to CGG". or is that most of you mistakenly think it's a CGC book?

 

Because we're civil, polite people, not a rude, arrogantly presumptious arsehole like yourself.

[joe_collector]

Because we're civil, polite people, not a rude, arrogantly presumptious arsehole like yourself.

 

Wow, Mr Friendly strikes again.

 

P.S. Are you really saying that no one on here has ever said a bad word concerning CGG grading and resto detection? Surely you can't be this stupid, but your above insult and profanity-filled gibberish has me thinking...

[awe4one]

Why is everyone playing "be nice to CGG". or is that most of you mistakenly think it's a CGC book?

 

Greggy posted some pretty compelling evidence on the VF bettyswalls copies that were sent in to CGG and received NM grades... and had slightly "different" edges, so why is this potential case being swept under the carpet?

 

Yep.....and the issue was clean. Oh so cleaned. And not the wonder bread treatment either.....

 

Jim