I recently purchased a CGG graded comic....and guess what?

[MW1]

We still hold sellers accountable for what they sell.

No, you're not. You're putting 100% of the responsibility with the grading company. Sorry, doesn't work for me.

[nik]

2. this is what I'm trying to say. You implicitly accepted their grading, NOT the sellers. That's who your beef is with

I just don't understand this mentality. Before standardized third party grading, we held sellers accountable for what they sold. Are they suddenly immune to product misrepresentation simply because of a plastic slab? That's completely counterintuitive and nonsensical.

 

Lets just say for the sake of argument, that a buyer buys one of your graded cards. He receives it and thinks its been trimmed.

Now can he call you and ask for a refund because he feels its been trimmed?, what would your answer be to him?

[jkrk]

I repeat. In my auctions I always write that I will not accept returns on CGC books.

I do not pick and choose the books. If a buyer has a problem with the terms and wishes to return the book he will be refused. I will review the policy when buyers stop purchasing the books.

[FlyingDonut]

We still hold sellers accountable for what they sell.

No, you're not. You're putting 100% of the responsibility with the grading company. Sorry, doesn't work for me.

 

You are completely missing the point. The seller's ONLY RESPONSIBILITY in this sale was to sell you what he sold you. You bought a CGG graded Amazing Spider-Man 122 in 9.4. That's what he sold you. 100% of the GRADE came from the grading company, so 100% of the responsibility FOR the grade should come from the grading company.

[MW1]

2. this is what I'm trying to say. You implicitly accepted their grading, NOT the sellers. That's who your beef is with

I just don't understand this mentality. Before standardized third party grading, we held sellers accountable for what they sold. Are they suddenly immune to product misrepresentation simply because of a plastic slab? That's completely counterintuitive and nonsensical.

 

Lets just say for the sake of argument, that a buyer buys one of your graded cards. He receives it and thinks its been trimmed.

Now can he call you and ask for a refund because he feels its been trimmed?, what would your answer be to him?

Absolutely, if he doesn't like something, I'd give him his money back. In fact, I once had a customer return a card (1963 Pete Rose Rookie) because he told me he had expensive car repairs. No problem, I told him.

 

Incidentally, in the case of a trimmed card, I would offer to pay for several other expert opinions.

[MW1]

I'd like to add to that the idea that if a piece of merchandise (graded or ungraded) has a noticeable problem, then the seller should, in good conscience, document that problem before selling the item. If he does not, sooner or later, someone will have a problem with it. To me, this is common sense.

 

If, on the other hand, the buyer is belligerent and just wants a refund "because", go ahead and give him one. You can always resell a properly graded item to someone else.

[nik]

My hats off to you then, you are different than alot of others. My only other question is do you know for a fact that this book has been trimmed, and did you contact the seller of your concern.

I saw in his auction which states if you dont agree with the grade you could return it, so if this book has been trimmed than obviously the grade is wrong.

Which still stinks for the seller, because the one that truly made out would be CGG with no fault of the seller.

[FlyingDonut]

My hats off to you then, you are different than alot of others. My only other question is do you know for a fact that this book has been trimmed, and did you contact the seller of your concern.

I saw in his auction which states if you dont agree with the grade you could return it, so if this book has been trimmed than obviously the grade is wrong.

Which still stinks for the seller, because the one that truly made out would be CGG with no fault of the seller.

 

Exactly. Another reason to blow off these guys.

[MW1]

We still hold sellers accountable for what they sell.

No, you're not. You're putting 100% of the responsibility with the grading company. Sorry, doesn't work for me.

 

You are completely missing the point. The seller's ONLY RESPONSIBILITY in this sale was to sell you what he sold you. You bought a CGG graded Amazing Spider-Man 122 in 9.4. That's what he sold you. 100% of the GRADE came from the grading company, so 100% of the responsibility FOR the grade should come from the grading company.

Sellers aren't mindless zombies. Anyone, even a baseball card dealer like myself, can make an informed analysis of a SINGLE and sometimes ARBITRARY grading decision. Sellers aren't contracted agents for grading companies, they're agents representing themselves, no matter what they sell -- graded or ungraded merchandise.

[jkrk]

I pay cgc so I don't have to discuss grading differences between the buyers and myself. Pre CGC the negotiations were never ending. If I have to start negotiating after CGC grades the book then why pay CGC at all? If most buyers agreed with you then I couldn't sell the way I do. An analysis of my problems post CGC makes me glad a third party grading service exists.

[MW1]

My hats off to you then, you are different than alot of others. My only other question is do you know for a fact that this book has been trimmed, and did you contact the seller of your concern.

No, I do not know with 100% certainty that the comic is trimmed. It's merely my opinion. I will probably contact the seller later this evening or tomorrow morning, explain the situation to them, and ask them how they'd like to handle it. If the seller responds with "Too bad, it's CGG graded, take it up with them," my feedback will reflect their sentiments.

[FlyingDonut]

My hats off to you then, you are different than alot of others. My only other question is do you know for a fact that this book has been trimmed, and did you contact the seller of your concern.

No, I do not know with 100% certainty that the comic is trimmed. It's merely my opinion. I will probably contact the seller later this evening or tomorrow morning, explain the situation to them, and ask them how they'd like to handle it. If the seller responds with "Too bad, it's CGG graded, take it up with them," my feedback will reflect their sentiments.

 

What, exactly, will you be negging them FOR? They did EXACTLY what the transaction was promised. They sold you a CGG Amazing Spider-Man 122 in 9.4. I'm assuming it was packaged well, arrived on time, and the case wasn't broken. Since they didn't say they wouldn't take the book back, I suppose you could neg them for that, but not for the grading. THEY DIDN'T GRADE THE BOOK. I agree 100% with jkrk.

[MW1]

I pay cgc so I don't have to discuss grading differences between the buyers and myself. Pre CGC the negotiations were never ending. If I have to start negotiating after CGC grades the book then why pay CGC at all? If most buyers agreed with you then I couldn't sell the way I do. An analysis of my problems post CGC makes me glad a third party grading service exists.

I agree and that's why I sell SGC graded sports cards. In the majority of cases, third party grading (assuming legitimate grading services) is significantly better than an ungraded analysis from some dealer on eBay. That being said, there ARE some cases where the grade or analysis appears to be inaccurate. In such cases, the seller should indicate those discrepancies with an honest description, not a meaningless rubber-stamp.

[MW1]

My hats off to you then, you are different than alot of others. My only other question is do you know for a fact that this book has been trimmed, and did you contact the seller of your concern.

No, I do not know with 100% certainty that the comic is trimmed. It's merely my opinion. I will probably contact the seller later this evening or tomorrow morning, explain the situation to them, and ask them how they'd like to handle it. If the seller responds with "Too bad, it's CGG graded, take it up with them," my feedback will reflect their sentiments.

 

What, exactly, will you be negging them FOR? They did EXACTLY what the transaction was promised. They sold you a CGG Amazing Spider-Man 122 in 9.4. I'm assuming it was packaged well, arrived on time, and the case wasn't broken. Since they didn't say they wouldn't take the book back, I suppose you could neg them for that, but not for the grading. THEY DIDN'T GRADE THE BOOK. I agree 100% with jkrk.

I never said I was going to automatically neg them. Re-read what I wrote.

[BassGMan]

My question MW1, is that when you contact the seller, what is he supposed to say? He will offer a full refund because the book MIGHT be trimmed? Maybe he will just refund because you asked, maybe he will want to know why you think it is trimmed and ask what proof you have that it is. If I was the seller here, and you e-mailed me with this concern I would absolutely refund if you could prove to me with some kind of expert testimony or proof that this was the case. Just remember, as far as this (or any seller) is concerned, you might be a guy whose car just broke down, are broke, and are making up some excuse to get your money back. There are overly picky and dishonest buyers out there too, for all this guy knows, you may be one, or just simply wrong. Just another angle here is all. -----Sid

[Darthdiesel]

Ummmm,...I'm not diggin that bottom edge...

 

just the bottom edge? how is that a 9.2 with that cover not sitting flush on ALL edges?

[MW1]

My question MW1, is that when you contact the seller, what is he supposed to say? He will offer a full refund because the book MIGHT be trimmed? Maybe he will just refund because you asked, maybe he will want to know why you think it is trimmed and ask what proof you have that it is. If I was the seller here, and you e-mailed me with this concern I would absolutely refund if you could prove to me with some kind of expert testimony or proof that this was the case. Just remember, as far as this (or any seller) is concerned, you might be a guy whose car just broke down, are broke, and are making up some excuse to get your money back. There are overly picky and dishonest buyers out there too, for all this guy knows, you may be one, or just simply wrong. Just another angle here is all.

Sid,

 

A very good point. If the seller wanted me to obtain an impartial expert opinion before accepting a return, that would be perfectly acceptable.

[MW1]

I'd just like to say that I appreciate everyone's comments -- even those that I do not agree with. I've been collecting for over two decades, but I've only purchased a couple dozen slabbed books so I'm still relatively new to the world of graded comics. Each comment/analysis/opinion is helpful and instructive.

[metropoliscomics]

I think you could have the guys at CGC review it for you - just in case.

[AtomicPaul-migration]

My two cents,

 

When I first saw the scan of the book my reaction was that it appeared normal. Then, when I saw the area breakdown high resolution images that MW posted of the book, the one thing that glared out was that the relationship of the roll out of the pages on the bottom right corner, bottom edge, the way that the cover and preceeding pages is pushed up is not mirrored by the image of the back cover top left hand corner and edge page and interior page shape! If it's not trimmed, I would expect that the same way the cover is pushed upward at the bottom right edge, there would be an extension of the top right edge of the front cover pushed similarly over the interior pages. There isn't. Something is definitely wrong. Whether it's been trimmed, or the staples have been pulled, maybe to replace a page, and reassembled out of line, it just doesn't lay right.

That 'baseball-stitch-like' top left edge is very unusual as well, of course beside the obvious thing that this book is most definitely not a NM, trimmed or otherwise.