Ask Gator 13 13

[G.A.tor]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

 

Talking about your entries in the book of the year contest, again?

[thunsicker]

Some pedigrees warrant a premium. Honestly some do not. There is no rule and honestly overstreet is rarely an accurate value. I generally look at past/actual sales and extrapolate from there

Church, Riley (SF), Larson and Allentown almost always merit a premium over the assigned grade (I don't mean the Overstreet value), sometimes a hefty premium. Most others don't.

 

Seems like a short list. How about Okajima (at least pre-1945)? Seems like Ohio gets a premium. Bethlehem? Northford? I guess it depends on how big a premium we are talking about.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Okajima is the only pedigree I'd pay a premium for. Of course I'd pay more for some of the qualities that other pedigrees have, but for pedigree itself only Okajima.

 

There are plenty of Okajima books that are only mid-grade and with average PQ. Heck, there's no shortage of Church copies that are mid-grade with average page quality. It all depends on how they were treated since Chuck sold them. I'm sure a lot of folks have seen Church copies that have been roughly handled and don't warrant much in the way of premium. Given that the SF/Reilly pedigree looks more and more like a made-up story, you might even think those aren't worth the premium currently applied to them.

 

The Church St John romance books -- which he apparently bought second hand -- don't seem to command much of a premium. With the Okajima books from the camp period, I think people are buying the story maybe more than the condition of the books.

 

My point exactly. I'd pay more for Church books because they look better. I'd pay more for Okajima books because of the story.

[october]

Some pedigrees warrant a premium. Honestly some do not. There is no rule and honestly overstreet is rarely an accurate value. I generally look at past/actual sales and extrapolate from there

Church, Riley (SF), Larson and Allentown almost always merit a premium over the assigned grade (I don't mean the Overstreet value), sometimes a hefty premium. Most others don't.

 

Seems like a short list. How about Okajima (at least pre-1945)? Seems like Ohio gets a premium. Bethlehem? Northford? I guess it depends on how big a premium we are talking about.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Okajima is the only pedigree I'd pay a premium for. Of course I'd pay more for some of the qualities that other pedigrees have, but for pedigree itself only Okajima.

 

There are plenty of Okajima books that are only mid-grade and with average PQ. Heck, there's no shortage of Church copies that are mid-grade with average page quality. It all depends on how they were treated since Chuck sold them. I'm sure a lot of folks have seen Church copies that have been roughly handled and don't warrant much in the way of premium. Given that the SF/Reilly pedigree looks more and more like a made-up story, you might even think those aren't worth the premium currently applied to them.

 

 

What did I miss?

[jimbo_707]

Some pedigrees warrant a premium. Honestly some do not. There is no rule and honestly overstreet is rarely an accurate value. I generally look at past/actual sales and extrapolate from there

Church, Riley (SF), Larson and Allentown almost always merit a premium over the assigned grade (I don't mean the Overstreet value), sometimes a hefty premium. Most others don't.

 

Seems like a short list. How about Okajima (at least pre-1945)? Seems like Ohio gets a premium. Bethlehem? Northford? I guess it depends on how big a premium we are talking about.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Okajima is the only pedigree I'd pay a premium for. Of course I'd pay more for some of the qualities that other pedigrees have, but for pedigree itself only Okajima.

 

There are plenty of Okajima books that are only mid-grade and with average PQ. Heck, there's no shortage of Church copies that are mid-grade with average page quality. It all depends on how they were treated since Chuck sold them. I'm sure a lot of folks have seen Church copies that have been roughly handled and don't warrant much in the way of premium. Given that the SF/Reilly pedigree looks more and more like a made-up story, you might even think those aren't worth the premium currently applied to them.

Don't forget the cat-pea-stained Church Cheslers from John McLaughlin's collection that Billy Parker mentioned a while back.

[october]

Some pedigrees warrant a premium. Honestly some do not. There is no rule and honestly overstreet is rarely an accurate value. I generally look at past/actual sales and extrapolate from there

Church, Riley (SF), Larson and Allentown almost always merit a premium over the assigned grade (I don't mean the Overstreet value), sometimes a hefty premium. Most others don't.

 

Seems like a short list. How about Okajima (at least pre-1945)? Seems like Ohio gets a premium. Bethlehem? Northford? I guess it depends on how big a premium we are talking about.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Okajima is the only pedigree I'd pay a premium for. Of course I'd pay more for some of the qualities that other pedigrees have, but for pedigree itself only Okajima.

 

There are plenty of Okajima books that are only mid-grade and with average PQ. Heck, there's no shortage of Church copies that are mid-grade with average page quality. It all depends on how they were treated since Chuck sold them. I'm sure a lot of folks have seen Church copies that have been roughly handled and don't warrant much in the way of premium. Given that the SF/Reilly pedigree looks more and more like a made-up story, you might even think those aren't worth the premium currently applied to them.

Don't forget the cat-pea-stained Church Cheslers from John McLaughlin's collection that Billy Parker mentioned a while back.

 

They might have cat pee, but they aren't average.

 

[jimbo_707]

Some pedigrees warrant a premium. Honestly some do not. There is no rule and honestly overstreet is rarely an accurate value. I generally look at past/actual sales and extrapolate from there

Church, Riley (SF), Larson and Allentown almost always merit a premium over the assigned grade (I don't mean the Overstreet value), sometimes a hefty premium. Most others don't.

 

Seems like a short list. How about Okajima (at least pre-1945)? Seems like Ohio gets a premium. Bethlehem? Northford? I guess it depends on how big a premium we are talking about.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Okajima is the only pedigree I'd pay a premium for. Of course I'd pay more for some of the qualities that other pedigrees have, but for pedigree itself only Okajima.

 

There are plenty of Okajima books that are only mid-grade and with average PQ. Heck, there's no shortage of Church copies that are mid-grade with average page quality. It all depends on how they were treated since Chuck sold them. I'm sure a lot of folks have seen Church copies that have been roughly handled and don't warrant much in the way of premium. Given that the SF/Reilly pedigree looks more and more like a made-up story, you might even think those aren't worth the premium currently applied to them.

Don't forget the cat-pea-stained Church Cheslers from John McLaughlin's collection that Billy Parker mentioned a while back.

 

They might have cat pee, but they aren't average.

 

It does have beautiful colors. I wouldn't look down my nose at any of the cat-pea Cheslers! (I might hold my nose, but I wouldn't look down it...)

[cheetah]

Some pedigrees warrant a premium. Honestly some do not. There is no rule and honestly overstreet is rarely an accurate value. I generally look at past/actual sales and extrapolate from there

Church, Riley (SF), Larson and Allentown almost always merit a premium over the assigned grade (I don't mean the Overstreet value), sometimes a hefty premium. Most others don't.

 

Seems like a short list. How about Okajima (at least pre-1945)? Seems like Ohio gets a premium. Bethlehem? Northford? I guess it depends on how big a premium we are talking about.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Okajima is the only pedigree I'd pay a premium for. Of course I'd pay more for some of the qualities that other pedigrees have, but for pedigree itself only Okajima.

 

There are plenty of Okajima books that are only mid-grade and with average PQ. Heck, there's no shortage of Church copies that are mid-grade with average page quality. It all depends on how they were treated since Chuck sold them. I'm sure a lot of folks have seen Church copies that have been roughly handled and don't warrant much in the way of premium. Given that the SF/Reilly pedigree looks more and more like a made-up story, you might even think those aren't worth the premium currently applied to them.

 

 

What did I miss?

 

Census and military records don't support the 'Tom Reilly killed in a Kamikaze attack in World War II' story. Some of us have put a lot of time into the research and I even spoke to the family of the only Tom Reilly from California killed in the war and they said the stamp of the name wasn't his signature. I think the whole thing was made up by a comic book dealer or the people who sold him the books.

[batman_fan]

This is getting interesting

[october]

Some pedigrees warrant a premium. Honestly some do not. There is no rule and honestly overstreet is rarely an accurate value. I generally look at past/actual sales and extrapolate from there

Church, Riley (SF), Larson and Allentown almost always merit a premium over the assigned grade (I don't mean the Overstreet value), sometimes a hefty premium. Most others don't.

 

Seems like a short list. How about Okajima (at least pre-1945)? Seems like Ohio gets a premium. Bethlehem? Northford? I guess it depends on how big a premium we are talking about.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Okajima is the only pedigree I'd pay a premium for. Of course I'd pay more for some of the qualities that other pedigrees have, but for pedigree itself only Okajima.

 

There are plenty of Okajima books that are only mid-grade and with average PQ. Heck, there's no shortage of Church copies that are mid-grade with average page quality. It all depends on how they were treated since Chuck sold them. I'm sure a lot of folks have seen Church copies that have been roughly handled and don't warrant much in the way of premium. Given that the SF/Reilly pedigree looks more and more like a made-up story, you might even think those aren't worth the premium currently applied to them.

 

 

What did I miss?

 

Census and military records don't support the 'Tom Reilly killed in a Kamikaze attack in World War II' story. Some of us have put a lot of time into the research and I even spoke to the family of the only Tom Reilly from California killed in the war and they said the stamp of the name wasn't his signature. I think the whole thing was made up by a comic book dealer or the people who sold him the books.

 

Interesting, and unfortunate. I hadn't heard any of that.

[october]

Some pedigrees warrant a premium. Honestly some do not. There is no rule and honestly overstreet is rarely an accurate value. I generally look at past/actual sales and extrapolate from there

Church, Riley (SF), Larson and Allentown almost always merit a premium over the assigned grade (I don't mean the Overstreet value), sometimes a hefty premium. Most others don't.

 

Seems like a short list. How about Okajima (at least pre-1945)? Seems like Ohio gets a premium. Bethlehem? Northford? I guess it depends on how big a premium we are talking about.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Okajima is the only pedigree I'd pay a premium for. Of course I'd pay more for some of the qualities that other pedigrees have, but for pedigree itself only Okajima.

 

There are plenty of Okajima books that are only mid-grade and with average PQ. Heck, there's no shortage of Church copies that are mid-grade with average page quality. It all depends on how they were treated since Chuck sold them. I'm sure a lot of folks have seen Church copies that have been roughly handled and don't warrant much in the way of premium. Given that the SF/Reilly pedigree looks more and more like a made-up story, you might even think those aren't worth the premium currently applied to them.

Don't forget the cat-pea-stained Church Cheslers from John McLaughlin's collection that Billy Parker mentioned a while back.

 

They might have cat pee, but they aren't average.

 

It does have beautiful colors. I wouldn't look down my nose at any of the cat-pea Cheslers! (I might hold my nose, but I wouldn't look down it...)

 

The stain kind of grosses me out, but the book doesn't smell. I was thinking about having it cleaned, but I can't bring myself to restore a Church copy.

[jimbo_707]

 

The stain kind of grosses me out, but the book doesn't smell. I was thinking about having it cleaned, but I can't bring myself to restore a Church copy.

My concern is that the highly acidic urine would have made the paper brittle in the areas that were soaked. In that sense it might be worse than a typical water stain. (It appears that Heritage advertised some of them as having "water stains," which I consider misleading.)

[jimbo_707]

 

 

What did I miss?

 

Census and military records don't support the 'Tom Reilly killed in a Kamikaze attack in World War II' story. Some of us have put a lot of time into the research and I even spoke to the family of the only Tom Reilly from California killed in the war and they said the stamp of the name wasn't his signature. I think the whole thing was made up by a comic book dealer or the people who sold him the books.

 

The name on the stamp does not look like Tom or Thomas to me. I'm actually not sure it would be his name, anyway; the stamp might be the name of the person who was picking up the books for him (his father or his wife, for instance). It's hard to tell what the first letter is, but if forced to give an answer, I'd say it most closely resembles an old-fashioned cursive A...

...but could be a stylized...anything - F, T, P, R, B etc. If I had to guess the name, I'd go with Allen.

 

The collection was supposedly sold off after the death of a parent, or both parents, and it supposedly originated in the Alameda area. There was a James A. Reilly who died in Alameda on January 19, 1973, aged 77 or 78. He would have been the right age to have had a son in the war. I might call the Alameda Public Library tomorrow & see if they'll pull his obituary for me.

 

There was a James A. Reilly who served stateside, at the naval air station in Alameda; I want to figure out whether that was the same one who died in '73, and whether the one who died in '73 had any sons who preceded him in death. There is a James A. Reilly on the list of war dead, too. His hometown is listed as Los Angeles, half a State away, but the matching first name and middle initial is a coincidence that may be worth looking into.

 

For what it's worth, the only Reilly from Alameda County killed in action in WWII, according to the government records I looked at, was named Phil Reilly. I couldn't locate any detailed information on him but didn't really try very hard as far as that goes.

 

 

In case anyone cares, these are the Reillys I was able to locate who entered the armed forces out of California and were killed in WWII (listed by county):

 

Alameda

Phil Reilly 39136562 S SG KIA

 

Los Angeles

Edward F. Reilly 19048447 PVT KIA Sept. 7, 1944, Phillipines

James A. Reilly 39246547 PVT DNB

Leslie E. Reilly 39558091 S SG FOD

 

Monterey

Donald J. Reilly 19142840 TEC5 DNB July 1, 1942, Phillipines

 

Sacramento

Thomas E. Reilly 39080025 PVT DNB July 2, 1942, Phillipines

 

Santa Clara

Donald J. Reilly 19142840 S SG KIA

 

San Diego

Francis Stephen Reilly Chief Signalman, U.S. Navy KIA

[MrBedrock]

 

The stain kind of grosses me out, but the book doesn't smell. I was thinking about having it cleaned, but I can't bring myself to restore a Church copy.

My concern is that the highly acidic urine would have made the paper brittle in the areas that were soaked. In that sense it might be worse than a typical water stain. (It appears that Heritage advertised some of them as having "water stains," which I consider misleading.)

A comic dealer told me that McLaughlin's cats peed rose water...

[MrBedrock]

As for the San Francisco books, I doubt that the validity of the Reilly story one way or the other will have any affect on the values of the books from that collection. They have always sold for big multiples because of the condition of the comics, not the life of the original owner. Folks were paying a premium for those books long before the story started to be passed around.

[jimbo_707]

As for the San Francisco books, I doubt that the validity of the Reilly story one way or the other will have any affect on the values of the books from that collection. They have always sold for big multiples because of the condition of the comics, not the life of the original owner. Folks were paying a premium for those books long before the story started to be passed around.

 

I'm sure you're right, but the unsolved mystery aspect interests me.

[G.A.tor]

Might be worthy (the Reilly history) of taking to its own thread for all to see

[Straw-Man]

Some pedigrees warrant a premium. Honestly some do not. There is no rule and honestly overstreet is rarely an accurate value. I generally look at past/actual sales and extrapolate from there

Church, Riley (SF), Larson and Allentown almost always merit a premium over the assigned grade (I don't mean the Overstreet value), sometimes a hefty premium. Most others don't.

 

have somebody throw some chicago books up for sale, and see what they do.

[G.A.tor]

my guess is Chicago books sell at the "most" premium of any pedigree these days

[Straw-Man]

agreed; it's primarily due to the fact that, other than a few mlj's, when a chicago book comes up, it's a timely.

[Straw-Man]

not that i'm knocking the mlj's.