Biggest OA Prices

[delekkerste]

I would have assumed the Action 15 would have gone for more than what it did. The prices achieved for the top 8 covers seems very skewed. I would have pegged the McFarlane ASM 328 cover and Miller DKR 2 to be worth less than than the others. The only McFarlane I can see in the top 8 is the Spiderman 1.

 

I'm not surprised at all. Clearly, nostalgia (ASM 328, DKR 2) trumps history (Action 15) and aesthetics (WSF 29) in the marketplace. It's becoming very apparent to me that peoples' collecting interests are really stratifying by age group. I see so many long-time, older collectors (people who long pre-dated me in the hobby) scratching their heads at prices for '80s and '90s material and wondering why Kirby and Ditko aren't the end-all, be-all for much of the 30-something and early 40-something set. Even guys in their late 30s and early 40s who do collect the big Silver Age artists (like myself), I suspect do so more out of respect for the history and importance than out of the true passion that is usually only borne out of nostalgia.

 

If you're surprised at results like the Action 15 cover now, I can't wait to see what happens in 20 years when there's a new generation of collectors in charge with their own set of priorities and nostalgia.

[buyatari]

I would have assumed the Action 15 would have gone for more than what it did. The prices achieved for the top 8 covers seems very skewed. I would have pegged the McFarlane ASM 328 cover and Miller DKR 2 to be worth less than than the others. The only McFarlane I can see in the top 8 is the Spiderman 1.

 

I'm not surprised at all. Clearly, nostalgia (ASM 328, DKR 2) trumps history (Action 15) and aesthetics (WSF 29) in the marketplace. It's becoming very apparent to me that peoples' collecting interests are really stratifying by age group. I see so many long-time, older collectors (people who long pre-dated me in the hobby) scratching their heads at prices for '80s and '90s material and wondering why Kirby and Ditko aren't the end-all, be-all for much of the 30-something and early 40-something set. Even guys in their late 30s and early 40s who do collect the big Silver Age artists (like myself), I suspect do so more out of respect for the history and importance than out of the true passion that is usually only borne out of nostalgia.

 

If you're surprised at results like the Action 15 cover now, I can't wait to see what happens in 20 years when there's a new generation of collectors in charge with their own set of priorities and nostalgia.

 

I would think that with time the pieces priced on nostalgia will be more likely to fall and those with history to back them up will make steady increases. As you said it almost seems tied to age brackets yet pieces like the Action 15 are timeless and appreciated by all.

[delekkerste]

I would think that with time the pieces priced on nostalgia will be more likely to fall and those with history to back them up will make steady increases. As you said it almost seems tied to age brackets yet pieces like the Action 15 are timeless and appreciated by all.

 

I suspect the relative valuation differential will narrow, but I expect that to happen with the historically important pieces falling by less than the nostalgia-backed pieces over the long-term (I'm talking 15-20+ years or more down the line)*. Yes, people will always respect and appreciate things like the Action 15 cover, but, who in the future is going to prize this more than someone like Richie Evans? I barely know the guy and yet I would have bet money that either he or Halperin would end up with this cover - the number of logical buyers for this piece you can count on one hand, and maybe 2 or 3 fingers.

 

Now consider this: in 20 years, Halperin will be in his 80s. Most of the other big BSDs will be in their late 50s or 60s (and have shown little interest in pieces like this to date anyway). The future buyer will most likely come from the younger generation. And who growing up in this day and age is going to have the kind of life experience that will lead him to want to pay more on an inflation-adjusted basis than a lifelong comic/GA fan and chain of comic book shops owner like Evans? Sorry, I'm just way too realistic to put money on those kind of odds. Great piece, though.

 

 

 

 

* And I readily admit that many of the nostalgia-based pieces I buy will almost surely have declined in real (inflation-adjusted terms) over this time period as well. Who's going to love Paul Smith or JRJR Uncanny X-Men in 20 years more than someone like myself who grew up with it and couldn't wait to plunk down six dimes for the latest issue? It's just way too obvious for words. Buy because you love it, because the next generation in all likelihood ain't gonna love it as much as you did.

[Nexus]

If you're surprised at results like the Action 15 cover now, I can't wait to see what happens in 20 years when there's a new generation of collectors in charge with their own set of priorities and nostalgia.

 

 

 

[delekkerste]

If you're surprised at results like the Action 15 cover now, I can't wait to see what happens in 20 years when there's a new generation of collectors in charge with their own set of priorities and nostalgia.

 

 

 

 

I'd love for this cover to be the younger generation's Hulk 181 and for the cover to end up on the "Biggest OA Prices" list in the (far) future! That said, I worry about a general falloff in future OA collecting interest when (years from now) the next generation takes over from Gen X (as I love the cover and plan to hold it for the very long-term, come hell or high water). In any case, I'd sooner make a bet on something like this appealing to the younger generation than a lot of other art out there that may be historically important but that I suspect won't resonate much with the next generation of collectors.

[suspense39]

I know this is a different level of collecting, the under 10k crowd who are in the 40-47 age which is where most of my friends and myself are located; but I have noticed that we have pretty much all expanded into other area areas like historical strip art, underground etc so maybe that is a positive sign for the whole hobby. Nostalgia only being a gateway, and then a serious interest in the aesthetics of the medium and it's history. I would have to guess that we are not the only ones who think this way.

[buyatari]

If you're surprised at results like the Action 15 cover now, I can't wait to see what happens in 20 years when there's a new generation of collectors in charge with their own set of priorities and nostalgia.

 

 

 

I'd love for this cover to be the younger generation's Hulk 181 and for the cover to end up on the "Biggest OA Prices" list in the (far) future! That said, I worry about a general falloff in future OA collecting interest when (years from now) the next generation takes over from Gen X (as I love the cover and plan to hold it for the very long-term, come hell or high water). In any case, I'd sooner make a bet on something like this appealing to the younger generation than a lot of other art out there that may be historically important but that I suspect won't resonate much with the next generation of collectors.

 

Interesting comments.

 

I've always felt that there was a larger percentage of art collectors in the comic community these days. The internet has opened the door for buying,selling and sharing that was so much harder to do pre-internet.

 

I also wonder how many of the dep pocket comic art collectors plan to donate their collections to museums after they move on. This would further limit the art available.

[delekkerste]

I know this is a different level of collecting, the under 10k crowd who are in the 40-47 age which is where most of my friends and myself are located; but I have noticed that we have pretty much all expanded into other area areas like historical strip art, underground etc so maybe that is a positive sign for the whole hobby. Nostalgia only being a gateway, and then a serious interest in the aesthetics of the medium and it's history. I would have to guess that we are not the only ones who think this way.

 

I wonder how much of that is a function of economics and how much is a function of interest. I mean, even if the interest is there, at a lower price point, would your cohort be more interested in the nostalgia-based OA that was the gateway drug as you mentioned? And, if that is the case, wouldn't that not necessarily bode well for the historical art out there that's already quite expensive? Just throwing it out there for contemplation and discussion...

[suspense39]

I know this is a different level of collecting, the under 10k crowd who are in the 40-47 age which is where most of my friends and myself are located; but I have noticed that we have pretty much all expanded into other area areas like historical strip art, underground etc so maybe that is a positive sign for the whole hobby. Nostalgia only being a gateway, and then a serious interest in the aesthetics of the medium and it's history. I would have to guess that we are not the only ones who think this way.

 

I wonder how much of that is a function of economics and how much is a function of interest. I mean, even if the interest is there, at a lower price point, would your cohort be more interested in the nostalgia-based OA that was the gateway drug as you mentioned? And, if that is the case, wouldn't that not necessarily bode well for the historical art out there that's already quite expensive? Just throwing it out there for contemplation and discussion...

 

Well yes part of it is definitely a question of economics.....being priced out of things one could once afford and still being compelled to continue collecting. I can only speak for myself but I have developed a REAL interest in things that are not from my area of nostalgia I actually like finding things that I have never seen or known about. I have a few pieces that I was interested in when I was a kid and that's enough for me...I know I'm in the minority.

[delekkerste]

I've always felt that there was a larger percentage of art collectors in the comic community these days. The internet has opened the door for buying,selling and sharing that was so much harder to do pre-internet.

 

Yep, that's for sure. Though, of course, it wouldn't be unreasonable to argue that this is fully reflected in prices that are, in some cases, tens, hundreds or even a thousand-fold higher in price than they were in the late '80s and pre-Internet early '90s.

 

 

I also wonder how many of the deep pocketed comic art collectors plan to donate their collections to museums after they move on. This would further limit the art available.

 

My guess is you could count those collectors on one hand. Maybe 1 or 2 fingers. That # could go up in the future, but I could also see it going down as well as people decide that it's better just to cash out. Unfortunately, there really isn't a good mechanism to donate OA these days - it's not like there are big museums dedicated to the medium which have a long and rich history of collectors bequeathing art to them. Does anybody here really want to leave their collection to Ohio State (which seems to be more focused on strip art)? Maybe the new Lucas museum might be a future destination for some OA. It's unlikely that many major art museums would even want/accept much of this work, and, if they did, you know that even the best OA is going to be sitting in storage 99.999% of the time. If you're a major collector, is that the outcome you'd want for your collection?

 

I always wondered if someone like a Halperin or Roberts might eventually want to create a museum of their own (I have no particular insight on this), but that's something that would require a huge commitment of time and money (many millions of dollars of expenditure beyond just donating the art). Would be great to see, but I'm not holding my breath. I guess the bottom line is that I don't see much supply being drained out of the market from donations to museums. Speaking of which, I've always found it funny how people refer to "museum quality" OA pieces and collections...it's like they're referring to "museums" that don't actually exist yet (given that all we've really seen are some temporary exhibitions and a few minor dedicated museums, e.g., Ohio State, MoCCA, Centre Belge de la BD, etc.)

 

Just my ...would be curious to hear what others think.

[Bronty]

how people refer to "museum quality" OA pieces and collections...it's like they're referring to "museums" that don't actually exist yet

 

hehe true. I hear that about a lot of stuff though. I think its just become shorthand for "really really expensive."

[comicsnyc22]

how people refer to "museum quality" OA pieces and collections...it's like they're referring to "museums" that don't actually exist yet

 

hehe true. I hear that about a lot of stuff though. I think its just become shorthand for "really really expensive."

 

Ha!

[suspense39]

"how people refer to "museum quality" OA pieces and collections...it's like they're referring to "museums" that don't actually exist yet"

 

Well I do have a golden age Reinman green lantern hanging next to an urs Fischer, a Dan Clowes next to a barry McGee, and a don heck next to a joe Goode.

[delekkerste]

Well I do have a golden age Reinman green lantern hanging next to an urs Fischer, a Dan Clowes next to a barry McGee, and a don heck next to a joe Goode.

 

What's your address? And can you leave the front door key and alarm code underneath your doormat.

[suspense39]

Well I do have a golden age Reinman green lantern hanging next to an urs Fischer, a Dan Clowes next to a barry McGee, and a don heck next to a joe Goode.

 

What's your address? And can you leave the front door key and alarm code underneath your doormat.

 

Ha!

 

Not major works, but I like them in relation to each other. I should probably keep my address and where I hide my key secret for now though.

[Bronty]

No need, I already have it

[suspense39]

No need, I already have it

 

Probably would not be hard to get with the "internets" and all that.

[DocR]

 

I always wondered if someone like a Halperin or Roberts might eventually want to create a museum of their own (I have no particular insight on this), but that's something that would require a huge commitment of time and money (many millions of dollars of expenditure beyond just donating the art). Would be great to see, but I'm not holding my breath. I guess the bottom line is that I don't see much supply being drained out of the market from donations to museums. Speaking of which, I've always found it funny how people refer to "museum quality" OA pieces and collections...it's like they're referring to "museums" that don't actually exist yet (given that all we've really seen are some temporary exhibitions and a few minor dedicated museums, e.g., Ohio State, MoCCA, Centre Belge de la BD, etc.)

 

this is what i think will happen and should happen and not just from 2 people specifically but collectively as a group. The tax benefits from this sort of thing can really add up especially if you consider other assets these folks are likely to also have. you just need people like the ones you mentioned to get things started.

[alxjhnsn]

Museums have budgets and many won't accept large donations that require care without either the flexibility to sell and/or some cash to cover expenses. This is especially true if the donation isn't in their main area of focus.

 

Just a thought for your estate planning.

[DocR]

Museums have budgets and many won't accept large donations that require care without either the flexibility to sell and/or some cash to cover expenses. This is especially true if the donation isn't in their main area of focus.

 

Just a thought for your estate planning.

 

I was saying I would like to see some of the big timers start a museum as Gene was hypothesizing. I think it would be great for the hobby and a lot of these pieces do deserve to be in a museum.