Unrestored Blue Label

[Apotheosis]

'House... how do you have this kind of time to be writing these Novella's? Don't you have a Brick and Mortar shop to run or something?

 

Seriously though. I read through all your posts on this thread and you make excellent points. The only knit picking that I have is that even companies with the qualifications that you put forth (i.e. great D&B rating, security and so on) have the very real possibility with being brought down by scandal. Arthur Anderson was a great example. All it will take is a couple of CGC's mistakes to surface to hurt their rep. I realize that there have been public cases of stuff that CGC misses, but like any other industry, for every one mistake that is public there are at least 10 others that are never heard of. There will never be the degree of perfection that we all desire until they can find a way to take the human element out of it.

 

That said... I'm still going to follow a simple formula... If I want to sell it then I will CGC it. If it's for my personal collection and it's modern I'll CGG it (let's face it... most of my moderns just aren't worth the $15 CGC charges, but $10 CGG ). As you so eloquently put it... Liquidity is what I'm buying with CGC.

[FFB]

Great post, 'House. Although I disagree with your fundamental position about whether we should help CGG get better, you raise a lot of interesting points here. Whatever happens with CGG, they clearly need to improve the transparency of their graders' and resto detectors qualifications, their security, their bonding and insurance, and the other items you mention. Having said that, I still think that it would be a good thing for us for CGC to have a healthy competitor and if we can help CGG by pointing out areas where it can improve, we can help ourselves in the process.

[lighthouse]

'House... how do you have this kind of time to be writing these Novella's? Don't you have a Brick and Mortar shop to run or something?

 

I'm not an actual comic shop owner... I just play one on the forum... How am I doing so far?

 

Seriously though. I read through all your posts on this thread and you make excellent points. The only knit picking that I have is that even companies with the qualifications that you put forth (i.e. great D&B rating, security and so on) have the very real possibility with being brought down by scandal. Arthur Anderson was a great example. All it will take is a couple of CGC's mistakes to surface to hurt their rep. I realize that there have been public cases of stuff that CGC misses, but like any other industry, for every one mistake that is public there are at least 10 others that are never heard of. There will never be the degree of perfection that we all desire until they can find a way to take the human element out of it.

 

And you can also be injured while riding in a cab that has seatbelts, a properly latching door, new tires, and a driver whose license is prominently displayed. That doesn't change what the selection process for choosing a cab "should" be. And it doesn't mean it is in the best interests of the cab company or their customers for either to accept lower standards.

 

That said... I'm still going to follow a simple formula... If I want to sell it then I will CGC it. If it's for my personal collection and it's modern I'll CGG it (let's face it... most of my moderns just aren't worth the $15 CGC charges, but $10 CGG ). As you so eloquently put it... Liquidity is what I'm buying with CGC.

 

If you feel that you are buying a protective holder and a second opinion for you money, then I don't find fault with the transaction at all.

 

Things change if you choose to resell that item in the holder. At that point you have responsibilities to your customer. If you were aware of problems with the integrity of PRQ, and sold a PRQ-graded item while trumpeting the quality of the encapsulation, you're just as irresponsible as a dealer who doesn't check his books for restoration before selling them. And as a dealer, when you offer products graded by PRQ, you tie your own credibility to theirs. If they suffer a scandal, you will absolutely be affected if you supported them in the past. Collectors have long memories, especially when related to who they think screwed them over. If you sell a PRQ book to a customer and PRQ turns out to have been a shady company, your customer will automatically assign some of that shadiness to you as well. They won't have recourse against PRQ, but they will have recourse against you, and that kind of negative word-of-mouth could do a lot of damage to those sellers...

 

That's one of the things I think a lot of folks miss when they start hoping for more third-party grading companies. Having inferior firms in the marketplace can be far worse than having no competition at all.

 

And as a reminder... when the folks from Beckett or PCGS or PSA decide to enter the comic grading market, and one of them will, I will be an active customer of theirs. I have no doubt about that. I won't be blindly loyal to CGC. I will submit books to both and give them each a chance at more of my business. That kind of competition is good for the marketplace. And inevitably there will be books that I will submit to one company instead of the other. But any one of those firms would be a better competitor for CGC a month after the opened their doors than CGG will be in 2008...

[Smokinghawk]

If I were to do that, do you honestly think I would do it with a free submission that was trackable to me? Does anyone here believe that a book lighthouse submits as his "free" submission will be treated exactly the same way as every other book in the pipeline? Anyone? How foolish would CGG be to not spend three or four times as much effort and time on getting that grade as "right" as they could?

 

 

And how do you think it would change their service? I mean, if it's restored and they miss it, they're busted. If it's NOT restored, and they claim to find restoration, they're busted. If they try to be "kind and generous" to you and give you a better-than-truth grade, they're busted because it could easily be a book you've already had graded. Any significant variation by more than .2 loses their argument.

 

So just what undisclosed modifications of their service do you think you'd get if you sent a book with a giant sticker on the box that said "SUBMITTED BY LIGHTHOUSE?"

 

P.S. I do read every word of your posts, and I get your point about the product in question not being a slab or a grade, but the ability to sell long-term legitimacy in an industry. I agree with you that better disclosure of methods and personnel would help, but then again I am also aware of the many comments weve all made about CGC not releasing their own grading standards either. So BOTH companies resist total disclosure, it seems.

 

What I *don't* get, though, is what would prevent industry acceptance if the slab is good and the grading is accurate. That leaves us with 1) flaws in restoration detection or 2) unfair collusion with certain sellers as possible spoilers. I'm awaiting either variable to be tested (while recalling an identical conspiracy theory of the latter issue being discussed at length right here with regards to CGC's gradings of Heritage resubmissions. I mean, we're already theorizing in advance of the damage done by a .5 CGG variance, nevermind the resubmission by Heritage resulting in 1.5-2 grades change).

[lighthouse]

If I were to do that, do you honestly think I would do it with a free submission that was trackable to me? Does anyone here believe that a book lighthouse submits as his "free" submission will be treated exactly the same way as every other book in the pipeline? Anyone? How foolish would CGG be to not spend three or four times as much effort and time on getting that grade as "right" as they could?

 

 

And how do you think it would change their service? I mean, if it's restored and they miss it, they're busted. If it's NOT restored, and they claim to find restoration, they're busted. If they try to be "kind and generous" to you and give you a better-than-truth grade, they're busted because it could easily be a book you've already had graded. Any significant variation by more than .2 loses their argument.

 

So just what undisclosed modifications of their service do you think you'd get if you sent a book with a giant sticker on the box that said "SUBMITTED BY LIGHTHOUSE?"

 

How accurate and consistent is your grading if you spend twenty seconds on a book? How accurate and consistent is it if you spend twenty minutes on a book? That's the difference. If drbanner spends twenty seconds on a book, there are things he may miss (even though he has a rep for being an exceptional grader). If drbanner spends twenty minutes on a book, I have no doubt that the grading will be dead on and any possible restoration would have been detected.

 

The point of the test wouldn't be can they give quality service. Even stckwizard can grade books given enough time and reference material. The point of the test would be do they give quality service during the normal course of events. The reliability isn't there if they only give accurate grades to lighthouse, The Beyonder, and OldGuy. It's important that Jeff Knucklehead from Mobile Alabama got the same level of service.

 

 

P.S. I do read every word of your posts

 

Dude, if you don't get help at Charter, please, get help somewhere...

[Illiterati-migration]

And I do own an example.

 

[Illiterati-migration]

'House... how do you have this kind of time to be writing these Novella's? Don't you have a Brick and Mortar shop to run or something?

 

Dude, he runs a COMIC SHOP. Don't you know there's a Crash on? What else could he possibly have to do??

[Timely]

"Given time and effort, you could get just as much money for the book in a mylar as you could in a slab"

 

Can't say I agree with this statement. Take that 9.9 ASM #19 that sold for $18,000+ out of the holder and see the top dollar you get for it. Or that Hulk 181 9.9 copy, etc...

 

Your statement was a blanket that does not cover every situation.

 

The rest of your "book" was thought provoking though!

 

Timely

[Smokinghawk]

How accurate and consistent is your grading if you spend twenty seconds on a book? How accurate and consistent is it if you spend twenty minutes on a book? That's the difference. If drbanner spends twenty seconds on a book, there are things he may miss (even though he has a rep for being an exceptional grader). If drbanner spends twenty minutes on a book, I have no doubt that the grading will be dead on and any possible restoration would have been detected.

 

The point of the test wouldn't be can they give quality service. Even stckwizard can grade books given enough time and reference material. The point of the test would be do they give quality service during the normal course of events. The reliability isn't there if they only give accurate grades to lighthouse, The Beyonder, and OldGuy. It's important that Jeff Knucklehead from Mobile Alabama got the same level of service.

 

 

 

 

But the grade is the grade, no matter how long you take to determine it. I still insist that even if they give two HOURS to your books, they still have to be accurate enough to match the grade that CGC would have given it--or perhaps, already HAD given it. Remember, they're still being tested against what the same book might have earned under CGC. And whether or not they know it's your book doesn't change that test.

 

So the question remains: what would really change just because they know it's YOUR book? They still have to match accurate grading.

 

And since you acknowledged that you've found their grading to be accurate, we'd have to say that it's not the grade that would make or break the test.

[Darthdiesel]

'House... how do you have this kind of time to be writing these Novella's? Don't you have a Brick and Mortar shop to run or something?

 

Dude, he runs a COMIC SHOP. Don't you know there's a Crash on? What else could he possibly have to do??

 

comic shop is a front for his Goth Girl Escort Service...'House is the Heidi Fleiss of Eugene OR

[lighthouse]

'House... how do you have this kind of time to be writing these Novella's? Don't you have a Brick and Mortar shop to run or something?

 

Dude, he runs a COMIC SHOP. Don't you know there's a Crash on? What else could he possibly have to do??

 

comic shop is a front for his Goth Girl Escort Service...'House is the Heidi Fleiss of Eugene OR

 

But unlike Heidi... I make this look good...

 

Is it wrong, after seeing the promos for the new Heidi Fleiss movie, to go back and watch first season Sopranos and think about banging Meadow?

[Apotheosis]

Is it wrong, after seeing the promos for the new Heidi Fleiss movie, to go back and watch first season Sopranos and think about banging Meadow?

 

Whew.... I thought I was the only one.

[THE_BEYONDER]

How many " garage bands " have gone on to become something more?

[burntboy]

wow - quite the treatise on "new" third party graders. i read it all - not sure i understand or agree with all of it but thank you for your time and effort. should be able to find some CGG stuff cheap after this.................