Star Wars #1 CGC 9.6 35C sold for $21,805 last night on CL

[underthebigw]

If unsold copies were returned to Marvel. Who is to say Marvel made a count of the comics to evaluate how well they sold. Johnny errand boy was told to put them in the back room along with the other unsold test variants. Than in the early 1980's Marvel decides to clear out some pallets of old comics and stuff from the back room. Some low end bulk dealer gets a sniff on a bunch of cheap comics by the pallet. He buys them unknowing they are price variants, puts them into his storage. He is a hoarder and part buffoon than loses track because the boxes are up to the ceiling in the storage unit. Now its 2011 and his estranged wife sells out to another large warehouse dealer because her husband lost his mind and is in assisted living. Thats how we can get a warehouse find today in 2011.

 

If this scenario came true, the Star Wars #1 probably sold out. Yet there could be a long box of the Iron Fist 14 to be found as it was less likely to sell out.

 

How did Marvel sit on all those cases of Spidey Platinums for almost 20 years. Too much stuff in a warehouse, boxes and boxes stacked up.

 

Returned comics were not returned whole.

 

They were stripped. Either the entire front cover was torn off, or the top third was cut/torn off, and that was returned to the publisher. The rest of the book was ordered destroyed by the publisher (though that, obviously, didn't always happen.) It would have been cost prohibitive to send the entire book back.

 

Interesting theory, though.

 

You guys are forgetting how incredibly corrupt the distribution system was. I'd be amazed if 50% of distributors actually stripped their returns.

 

I'd also be amazed if Marvel ever audited any distributor in person.

 

Again, 4 long boxes of HtD 3 30 cent variant. I know for a fact that the comic shop owner who showed them to me had a deal with the distributor where he got long boxes of any issue that he wanted, at pennies on the dollar, and the the distributor just marked them as destroyed.

 

Granted, it's a longshot something like this could happen with SW 1, but not impossible.

 

As for the 1500 number Brodsky tossed out in the letter, who knows? I have no confidence in it. Could be more, could be less.

[Topnotchman]

Although I have little knowledge until recently, how firm is the approximate 1500 printed. With the minimum volume to just set up and run the machines, I would think 10,000 would still be a low number for 1977.

[comicwiz]

If unsold copies were returned to Marvel. Who is to say Marvel made a count of the comics to evaluate how well they sold. Johnny errand boy was told to put them in the back room along with the other unsold test variants. Than in the early 1980's Marvel decides to clear out some pallets of old comics and stuff from the back room. Some low end bulk dealer gets a sniff on a bunch of cheap comics by the pallet. He buys them unknowing they are price variants, puts them into his storage. He is a hoarder and part buffoon than loses track because the boxes are up to the ceiling in the storage unit. Now its 2011 and his estranged wife sells out to another large warehouse dealer because her husband lost his mind and is in assisted living. Thats how we can get a warehouse find today in 2011.

 

If this scenario came true, the Star Wars #1 probably sold out. Yet there could be a long box of the Iron Fist 14 to be found as it was less likely to sell out.

 

How did Marvel sit on all those cases of Spidey Platinums for almost 20 years. Too much stuff in a warehouse, boxes and boxes stacked up.

 

Returned comics were not returned whole.

 

They were stripped. Either the entire front cover was torn off, or the top third was cut/torn off, and that was returned to the publisher. The rest of the book was ordered destroyed by the publisher (though that, obviously, didn't always happen.) It would have been cost prohibitive to send the entire book back.

 

Interesting theory, though.

 

You guys are forgetting how incredibly corrupt the distribution system was. I'd be amazed if 50% of distributors actually stripped their returns.

 

I'd also be amazed if Marvel ever audited any distributor in person.

 

Again, 4 long boxes of HtD 3 30 cent variant. I know for a fact that the comic shop owner who showed them to me had a deal with the distributor where he got long boxes of any issue that he wanted, at pennies on the dollar, and the the distributor just marked them as destroyed.

 

Granted, it's a longshot something like this could happen with SW 1, but not impossible.

 

As for the 1500 number Brodsky tossed out in the letter, who knows? I have no confidence in it. Could be more, could be less.

 

The 30¢ test variants are just not in the same league of rarity as the 35¢ test variants. The 30¢ variants are scarcer than their 25¢ counterpart, but I'm not exaggerating when I say the certain issues I've seen more 30¢ test variants than the regular 25¢ copy.

 

One of the best collections I've seen contained 4-5 long boxes of 30¢ variants, and one long box of 35¢ variants. This collector admitted to having a cut-off at FN grade, otherwise he would have had twice the amount of boxes of 30¢ variants, but the amount of 35¢ variants would have remained the same.

[comicwiz]

Although I have little knowledge until recently, how firm is the approximate 1500 printed. With the minimum volume to just set up and run the machines, I would think 10,000 would still be a low number for 1977.

 

I have no reason to contest the 1500. The Star Wars 1 is the most recognized, and easily the most seen. The last I looked, it commanded 4-5 times the amount of submissions of Iron Fist 14. And yet it still only has 100+ submissions. If there is any variant that sees its fair share of potentialization mileage its this book. Minus 10-20 for resubs, even if the number climbed to 150-200, I think the 1500 number would be more believable than 10,000.

[underthebigw]

If unsold copies were returned to Marvel. Who is to say Marvel made a count of the comics to evaluate how well they sold. Johnny errand boy was told to put them in the back room along with the other unsold test variants. Than in the early 1980's Marvel decides to clear out some pallets of old comics and stuff from the back room. Some low end bulk dealer gets a sniff on a bunch of cheap comics by the pallet. He buys them unknowing they are price variants, puts them into his storage. He is a hoarder and part buffoon than loses track because the boxes are up to the ceiling in the storage unit. Now its 2011 and his estranged wife sells out to another large warehouse dealer because her husband lost his mind and is in assisted living. Thats how we can get a warehouse find today in 2011.

 

If this scenario came true, the Star Wars #1 probably sold out. Yet there could be a long box of the Iron Fist 14 to be found as it was less likely to sell out.

 

How did Marvel sit on all those cases of Spidey Platinums for almost 20 years. Too much stuff in a warehouse, boxes and boxes stacked up.

 

Returned comics were not returned whole.

 

They were stripped. Either the entire front cover was torn off, or the top third was cut/torn off, and that was returned to the publisher. The rest of the book was ordered destroyed by the publisher (though that, obviously, didn't always happen.) It would have been cost prohibitive to send the entire book back.

 

Interesting theory, though.

 

You guys are forgetting how incredibly corrupt the distribution system was. I'd be amazed if 50% of distributors actually stripped their returns.

 

I'd also be amazed if Marvel ever audited any distributor in person.

 

Again, 4 long boxes of HtD 3 30 cent variant. I know for a fact that the comic shop owner who showed them to me had a deal with the distributor where he got long boxes of any issue that he wanted, at pennies on the dollar, and the the distributor just marked them as destroyed.

 

Granted, it's a longshot something like this could happen with SW 1, but not impossible.

 

As for the 1500 number Brodsky tossed out in the letter, who knows? I have no confidence in it. Could be more, could be less.

 

The 30¢ test variants are just not in the same league of rarity as the 35¢ test variants. The 30¢ variants are scarcer than their 25¢ counterpart, but I'm not exaggerating when I say the certain issues I've seen more 30¢ test variants than the regular 25¢ copy.

 

One of the best collections I've seen contained 4-5 long boxes of 30¢ variants, and one long box of 35¢ variants. This collector admitted to having a cut-off at FN grade, otherwise he would have had twice the amount of boxes of 30¢ variants, but the amount of 35¢ variants would have remained the same.

 

You don't have to tell me the numbers aren't the same. I finished my 30 cent variant set, but had the common sense not to go after the 35 cent set, even though I found almost 40 from one collection, and easily had another 30 or so from my years of searching for the 30 cent variants.

 

The point is, the process is the same. They did not sell as well as regular issues, they were returned to distributors, retailers may have balked at the higher priced variants and sent them back, and the distribution system was corrupt. Who knows. They could show up in batches, but probably won't. The stack I saw when I was a 14 may have been the only batch that survived distribution intact. Then again, maybe there's another one out there.

 

I think most of us have been around long enough to know better than to be so sure of anything in this hobby. I remember finding the first recognized IF 14 variant back in 1999 or so. I brought it one of the old Big Apple shows at the church to shop it around, and EVERYONE I mentioned it to (w/ the exception of Bob Storms), told me I was full of sheet when I said I had one. Some pretty big time dealers. Then I showed it to them. Jaws dropped. Never say never.

[kimik]

Although I have little knowledge until recently, how firm is the approximate 1500 printed. With the minimum volume to just set up and run the machines, I would think 10,000 would still be a low number for 1977.

 

I have no reason to contest the 1500. The Star Wars 1 is the most recognized, and easily the most seen. The last I looked, it commanded 4-5 times the amount of submissions of Iron Fist 14. And yet it still only has 100+ submissions. If there is any variant that sees its fair share of potentialization mileage its this book. Minus 10-20 for resubs, even if the number climbed to 150-200, I think the 1500 number would be more believable than 10,000.

 

That's what the Valiant community used to think about print runs on the variants and pre-Unity issues in 1999/2000. Needless to say, the numbers on most of them have increased over time.

 

While I think that the SW #1 might have been a different case, I don't think they would have only done a 1,500 print run for six cities. That would only be 250 apiece, and too small a number to get a good idea of market acceptance for the higher price tag.

 

[adamstrange]

You guys are forgetting how incredibly corrupt the distribution system was. I'd be amazed if 50% of distributors actually stripped their returns.

In the 70s they started allowing affidavit returns whereby nothing was shipped back to the publisher but an affidavit stating how many comics were unsold. The Mile High II stash is thought to be mostly these types of non-returned returns.

[BeachBum]

It's my understanding that the 35 cent variants are rarer than the earlier 30 cent variants. Is this true?

[FlyingDonut]

It's my understanding that the 35 cent variants are rarer than the earlier 30 cent variants. Is this true?

 

Yes.

[underthebigw]

It's my understanding that the 35 cent variants are rarer than the earlier 30 cent variants. Is this true?

 

Much.

 

 

[Topnotchman]

What If.

 

Marvel prints 10,000 copies of a 30 cent variant for limited distribution. Distributor A did all the paperwork for the 30 cent variants in 1976, it was a huge pain in the keeping track of a test market variant for Marvel. They did it, went through the motions of sending out and keeping track of the 30 cent variants like they were told.

 

Than again in 1977 Marvel said, oh lets do a 35 cent variant in test cities again. They print 10,000 copies and give out lists of cities for the distribution. Distributor A says, you have to be kidding. That was red tape waste of my time. Out of spite they end up not sending the comics out except in extreme limited quantities. They instead make up a story that they sent them out and they sold well. In turn they really shoved them in the back room and eventually sold them on the side to a low end bulk dealer 3 years later. That bulk dealer put them in storage, soon got his girlfriend pregnant. Than had to get a full time job as he did not have time for the comics as his wife said they were for kids anyways. So she tossed them.

 

The reason the 35 cent variants are scarce today compared to the 30 cent variants is because the distributor was lazy and never sent them out. They had almost identical print runs, but were not distributed like the year earlier.

 

This is my fabricated long winded explanation on why the 35 cent variants are rare compared to there 30 cent cousins.

 

.

[BeachBum]

Still the only 35 cents I own, tied for top census:

 

 

Any idea what it's worth? Not selling, just curious. I just noticed a CGC 8.5 sold for $800 on eBay a year ago.

[SharpComics.com]

Still plenty of dealers at shows sell the price variants as standard editions. The level of expertise here on the boards does not translate to the general back issue dealer, or weekend warrior show dealer.

 

So true and unfortunate for those that are undereducated in the back issue market, BUT extremely fortunate for those of us who have obtained the knowledge and have managed to put it to good use

[Gatsby77]

I was in an antiques mart last weekend outside of Lansing, Michigan and was excited to find a 5.0 $.35 John Carter variant for $2, only to then notice the blank UPC box, so I passed, assuming it was a reprint similar to the Star Wars issues.

 

Anyone confirm whether John Carter # 1 had a $.35 reprint?

 

No. It's an early Whitman/Direct Market version, distributed either in 3-packs by Western (as JC contends) or directly to the early comics shops. I contend it was most of Western, and a little of the DM (Western being the major player in the DM in the late 70's.)

 

The myth that there are reprints of these late Bronze books floating around is one that was perpetrated by Overstreet for decades.

 

Common sense alone dictates that. Marvel had no incentive to reprint books that didn't sell out in the first place.

 

Hold on there, cowboy!

 

John Carter 1 DID have a 35 cent variant. Just not the book he's talking about. BTW I know you know this, just making sure others don't make the same mistake.

 

**Credit where credit is due! I'm stealing all scans from the AMAZINGLY AWESOME StlComics variant board***

 

35 cent variant John Carter 1:

 

 

Thanks.

 

I knew about the $.35 version of John Carter 1 from memory and quickly went to StlComics via my iPhone to check the image. When I saw that the copy I was looking at had a blank UPC rather than the barcode shown, I balked.

 

I just hadn't heard of blank UPCs (reprints? Whitman variants?) of that issue. In retrospect, I probably should have spent the $2, rather than picking up a Cap. America Annual 8 for $3.

 

[cosmic-spider-man]

I was in an antiques mart last weekend outside of Lansing, Michigan and was excited to find a 5.0 $.35 John Carter variant for $2, only to then notice the blank UPC box, so I passed, assuming it was a reprint similar to the Star Wars issues.

 

Anyone confirm whether John Carter # 1 had a $.35 reprint?

 

No. It's an early Whitman/Direct Market version, distributed either in 3-packs by Western (as JC contends) or directly to the early comics shops. I contend it was most of Western, and a little of the DM (Western being the major player in the DM in the late 70's.)

 

The myth that there are reprints of these late Bronze books floating around is one that was perpetrated by Overstreet for decades.

 

Common sense alone dictates that. Marvel had no incentive to reprint books that didn't sell out in the first place.

 

Hold on there, cowboy!

 

John Carter 1 DID have a 35 cent variant. Just not the book he's talking about. BTW I know you know this, just making sure others don't make the same mistake.

 

**Credit where credit is due! I'm stealing all scans from the AMAZINGLY AWESOME StlComics variant board***

 

35 cent variant John Carter 1:

 

 

Thanks.

 

I knew about the $.35 version of John Carter 1 from memory and quickly went to StlComics via my iPhone to check the image. When I saw that the copy I was looking at had a blank UPC rather than the barcode shown, I balked.

 

I just hadn't heard of blank UPCs (reprints? Whitman variants?) of that issue. In retrospect, I probably should have spent the $2, rather than picking up a Cap. America Annual 8 for $3.

 

 

I really don't think a John Carter #1 exist with a blank UPC, I have never seen one.

[comicwiz]

Although I have little knowledge until recently, how firm is the approximate 1500 printed. With the minimum volume to just set up and run the machines, I would think 10,000 would still be a low number for 1977.

 

I have no reason to contest the 1500. The Star Wars 1 is the most recognized, and easily the most seen. The last I looked, it commanded 4-5 times the amount of submissions of Iron Fist 14. And yet it still only has 100+ submissions. If there is any variant that sees its fair share of potentialization mileage its this book. Minus 10-20 for resubs, even if the number climbed to 150-200, I think the 1500 number would be more believable than 10,000.

 

That's what the Valiant community used to think about print runs on the variants and pre-Unity issues in 1999/2000. Needless to say, the numbers on most of them have increased over time.

While I think that the SW #1 might have been a different case, I don't think they would have only done a 1,500 print run for six cities. That would only be 250 apiece, and too small a number to get a good idea of market acceptance for the higher price tag.

 

Sorry, but I just don't see Valiants belonging in the same discussion.

[Bronty]

Let me see if I can dig up a thread...

 

Oh look, it's a thread from 8 years ago with donut, banner, bronty, supapimp, etc.,. discussing this book...just need rob_react, murph, and JC to chime in and it'll be a reunion!

 

Star Wars #1 35-cent Variant CGC 9.2 on eBay

 

 

and my opinion hasn't changed! thought it was a POS at 3500 and think its a pos at 20k+ too!

[spidrvacc]

 

and my opinion hasn't changed! thought it was a POS at 3500 and think its a pos at 20k+ too!

 

 

 

[kimik]

Although I have little knowledge until recently, how firm is the approximate 1500 printed. With the minimum volume to just set up and run the machines, I would think 10,000 would still be a low number for 1977.

 

I have no reason to contest the 1500. The Star Wars 1 is the most recognized, and easily the most seen. The last I looked, it commanded 4-5 times the amount of submissions of Iron Fist 14. And yet it still only has 100+ submissions. If there is any variant that sees its fair share of potentialization mileage its this book. Minus 10-20 for resubs, even if the number climbed to 150-200, I think the 1500 number would be more believable than 10,000.

 

That's what the Valiant community used to think about print runs on the variants and pre-Unity issues in 1999/2000. Needless to say, the numbers on most of them have increased over time.

While I think that the SW #1 might have been a different case, I don't think they would have only done a 1,500 print run for six cities. That would only be 250 apiece, and too small a number to get a good idea of market acceptance for the higher price tag.

 

Sorry, but I just don't see Valiants belonging in the same discussion.

 

We will agree to disagree then. I was referring to statement that you had the 1500 as being more believable than 10,000. There was a time way back when on the Valiant boards where collector print run estimates were first stated. They increased over time as new information came to light and more copies surfaced. My guess is that we will see the same with the 35 cent variants as well.

 

Based on the estimates on comic book return rates in the late 70s, it would not make sense to only go with 1500 copies. Here is what Chuck R. has in one of his Tales from the Database columns: "By the mid-1970's a sell-through of 40% was considered very good. By extrapolation, this meant that having "only" 60% of a given print run destroyed was considered excellent operating results."

 

In light of that, how can a publisher get any type of pricing data from just 250 copies of a given book in decent sized market if only 40% (100 books in the case of 250 per city) of a normal priced issue were expected to sell? Based on the return rate at the time, it would make more sense to do a minimum of 1,000 per test market since the odds of the book actually reaching a paying customer and forcing them to make a choice would be better. With most comics likely being in the 50,000 - 100,000 print run back then (according to Chuck, over 1 million copies of SW #1 sold in various printings), I would put more faith in the higher print run to be honest.

 

 

 

 

[FlyingDonut]

Although I have little knowledge until recently, how firm is the approximate 1500 printed. With the minimum volume to just set up and run the machines, I would think 10,000 would still be a low number for 1977.

 

I have no reason to contest the 1500. The Star Wars 1 is the most recognized, and easily the most seen. The last I looked, it commanded 4-5 times the amount of submissions of Iron Fist 14. And yet it still only has 100+ submissions. If there is any variant that sees its fair share of potentialization mileage its this book. Minus 10-20 for resubs, even if the number climbed to 150-200, I think the 1500 number would be more believable than 10,000.

 

That's what the Valiant community used to think about print runs on the variants and pre-Unity issues in 1999/2000. Needless to say, the numbers on most of them have increased over time.

While I think that the SW #1 might have been a different case, I don't think they would have only done a 1,500 print run for six cities. That would only be 250 apiece, and too small a number to get a good idea of market acceptance for the higher price tag.

 

Sorry, but I just don't see Valiants belonging in the same discussion.

 

We will agree to disagree then. I was referring to statement that you had the 1500 as being more believable than 10,000. There was a time way back when on the Valiant boards where collector print run estimates were first stated. They increased over time as new information came to light and more copies surfaced. My guess is that we will see the same with the 35 cent variants as well.

 

Based on the estimates on comic book return rates in the late 70s, it would not make sense to only go with 1500 copies. Here is what Chuck R. has in one of his Tales from the Database columns: "By the mid-1970's a sell-through of 40% was considered very good. By extrapolation, this meant that having "only" 60% of a given print run destroyed was considered excellent operating results."

 

In light of that, how can a publisher get any type of pricing data from just 250 copies of a given book in decent sized market if only 40% (100 books in the case of 250 per city) of a normal priced issue were expected to sell? Based on the return rate at the time, it would make more sense to do a minimum of 1,000 per test market since the odds of the book actually reaching a paying customer and forcing them to make a choice would be better. With most comics likely being in the 50,000 - 100,000 print run back then (according to Chuck, over 1 million copies of SW #1 sold in various printings), I would put more faith in the higher print run to be honest.

 

 

 

 

The existence of the book has been known since at least Overstreet 8 in 1978, and you are assuming that the test pricing was in fact done correctly. I've bought collections from the exact markets before the existence of 35 cent variants was well known, and they simply didn't show up in those collections. You're welcome to believe whatever you want, but 33 years of knowledge of the book, plus the fact that if you find one it is - essentially - free money, lends credence to the thought that there just aren't many out there.