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Was Iron Man 55 really Thanos true first appearance?

Started by WEBHEAD,

259 posts in this topic

Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted
That would work. I just hate how 180 has been basically ignored for what it is.

First minor appearance and introduction of Wolverine. He actually introduces himself.

 

My belief is that, since it took them 12 years to reprint the story, collectors naturally wanted to READ the first Wolverine STORY and thus 181 held an advantage over 180, for many years. (You're old enough to remember this, but there are plenty of people here who need to be reminded of a time people would actually READ these comics.)

 

Since OSPG is, allegedly, based upon what dealers are seeing customers buy and show an interest in, 181 grew over the years as a book in demand. Because people wanted to READ about the first Wolverine appearance. NOT read a story that he showed up in the last panel.

 

Hey, if I have to spend a $1.50 on this old back issue, I want a full Wolverine STORY!

 

Once it had been reprinted in 1986, it wasn't like that comic was everywhere and available on demand anytime anyone wanted it. It was still a STORY that people were interested in and wanted to READ, so they had to seek out the actual issue, and it continued to grow.

 

Only within these last 15 years as the internet and trade paperbacks, make it something easy to obtain at a moment's notice for a a fraction of the market price, is there suddenly the desire to create demand for a book that the buying public has specified wasn't the one they wanted for the last three plus decades.

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kav

kav

Posted
Posted

All of 'Goguy' posts got poofed and he got poofed-new poster- was maybe a shill or something.

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kav

kav

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Posted

No because his account is gonzo and only the mods can end your account....

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JollyComics

JollyComics

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What about darkseid? Seems people only care about Jimmy Olsen 134, despite it being only one panel.

 

Agreed! Overrated! It's outrageous that everybody sells at the overprice. The only reason I like about this book is Neal Adams' work.

 

All true full appearance of Darkseid is Forever People #1

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kav

kav

Posted
Posted
That would work. I just hate how 180 has been basically ignored for what it is.

First minor appearance and introduction of Wolverine. He actually introduces himself.

 

My belief is that, since it took them 12 years to reprint the story, collectors naturally wanted to READ the first Wolverine STORY and thus 181 held an advantage over 180, for many years. (You're old enough to remember this, but there are plenty of people here who need to be reminded of a time people would actually READ these comics.)

 

Since OSPG is, allegedly, based upon what dealers are seeing customers buy and show an interest in, 181 grew over the years as a book in demand. Because people wanted to READ about the first Wolverine appearance. NOT read a story that he showed up in the last panel.

 

Hey, if I have to spend a $1.50 on this old back issue, I want a full Wolverine STORY!

 

Once it had been reprinted in 1986, it wasn't like that comic was everywhere and available on demand anytime anyone wanted it. It was still a STORY that people were interested in and wanted to READ, so they had to seek out the actual issue, and it continued to grow.

 

Only within these last 15 years as the internet and trade paperbacks, make it something easy to obtain at a moment's notice for a a fraction of the market price, is there suddenly the desire to create demand for a book that the buying public has specified wasn't the one they wanted for the last three plus decades.

Quality of story shouldn't be the criterion for first appearance. FF #2 was a way better story than FF #1-does that mean FF #2 should be the 'first appearance'? First appearance should be the first time the character appears. Period. Not the first time he appeared in the whole story or the first time he appeared in a good story or the first time he appeared with a good artist or a new costume or anything.

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted
That would work. I just hate how 180 has been basically ignored for what it is.

First minor appearance and introduction of Wolverine. He actually introduces himself.

 

My belief is that, since it took them 12 years to reprint the story, collectors naturally wanted to READ the first Wolverine STORY and thus 181 held an advantage over 180, for many years. (You're old enough to remember this, but there are plenty of people here who need to be reminded of a time people would actually READ these comics.)

 

Since OSPG is, allegedly, based upon what dealers are seeing customers buy and show an interest in, 181 grew over the years as a book in demand. Because people wanted to READ about the first Wolverine appearance. NOT read a story that he showed up in the last panel.

 

Hey, if I have to spend a $1.50 on this old back issue, I want a full Wolverine STORY!

 

Once it had been reprinted in 1986, it wasn't like that comic was everywhere and available on demand anytime anyone wanted it. It was still a STORY that people were interested in and wanted to READ, so they had to seek out the actual issue, and it continued to grow.

 

Only within these last 15 years as the internet and trade paperbacks, make it something easy to obtain at a moment's notice for a a fraction of the market price, is there suddenly the desire to create demand for a book that the buying public has specified wasn't the one they wanted for the last three plus decades.

Quality of story shouldn't be the criterion for first appearance. FF #2 was a way better story than FF #1-does that mean FF #2 should be the 'first appearance'? First appearance should be the first time the character appears. Period. Not the first time he appeared in the whole story or the first time he appeared in a good story or the first time he appeared with a good artist or a new costume or anything.

 

I never said that. I never said anything about the QUALITY of the story.

 

You can debate the 'title' of what you call each issue all you want, but the MARKET determined the price for each of them. Generally their is a REASON why.

For some REASON, it was more important to people to buy 181 as a full appearance instead of 180 as an first actual appearance. Got any idea why?

No?

I do.

I believe 181 won because people wanted to read a full Wolverine story and not just buy a comic with him in one panel. IT WAS DIFFERENT BACK THEN.

It had nothing to do with the QUALITY of the story, it had to do with it WAS a story.

It was considered expensive to spend $1.50+ on a back issue in 1979, you didn't just do that with any old comic. You got your money's worth.

If you have a better explanation, please feel free to share it.

 

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Lazyboy

Lazyboy

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Posted
That would work. I just hate how 180 has been basically ignored for what it is.

First minor appearance and introduction of Wolverine. He actually introduces himself.

 

My belief is that, since it took them 12 years to reprint the story, collectors naturally wanted to READ the first Wolverine STORY and thus 181 held an advantage over 180, for many years. (You're old enough to remember this, but there are plenty of people here who need to be reminded of a time people would actually READ these comics.)

 

Since OSPG is, allegedly, based upon what dealers are seeing customers buy and show an interest in, 181 grew over the years as a book in demand. Because people wanted to READ about the first Wolverine appearance. NOT read a story that he showed up in the last panel.

 

Hey, if I have to spend a $1.50 on this old back issue, I want a full Wolverine STORY!

 

Once it had been reprinted in 1986, it wasn't like that comic was everywhere and available on demand anytime anyone wanted it. It was still a STORY that people were interested in and wanted to READ, so they had to seek out the actual issue, and it continued to grow.

 

Only within these last 15 years as the internet and trade paperbacks, make it something easy to obtain at a moment's notice for a a fraction of the market price, is there suddenly the desire to create demand for a book that the buying public has specified wasn't the one they wanted for the last three plus decades.

Quality of story shouldn't be the criterion for first appearance. FF #2 was a way better story than FF #1-does that mean FF #2 should be the 'first appearance'? First appearance should be the first time the character appears. Period. Not the first time he appeared in the whole story or the first time he appeared in a good story or the first time he appeared with a good artist or a new costume or anything.

It is, but the demand and money goes to the first meaningful appearance.
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kav

kav

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Posted

Well didn't Overstreet and CGC calling it the first appearance have anything to do with it? If a book is more desired cause it has a fuller story, that shouldn't be a reason to start calling it the first appearance. Call it the second appearance and say that it is more sought after or something.

However I suspect it became more sought out as a key when the powers that be claimed it as the 'first appearance'.

 

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

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Posted
Well didn't Overstreet and CGC calling it the first appearance have anything to do with it? If a book is more desired cause it has a fuller story, that shouldn't be a reason to start calling it the first appearance. Call it the second appearance and say that it is more sought after or something.

However I suspect it became more sought out as a key when the powers that be claimed it as the 'first appearance'.

 

CGC?

Market decided this was a key long before CGC was around.

 

181 is broken out for the first time in OSPG #8 (1978)

 

In 1982, OSPG calls #181 a "Wolverine appearance" and #180 a "1st appearance (cameo)", but prices continue to climb for 181 and not for 180.

In fact from 1981 to 1982, prices for 181 go from $5.25 to $16.00 while #180 goes from $12.00 to $6.00.

 

OSPG is TRYING to make 180 the book, but as X-Men readers seek out the start of Wolverine as a character, they choose 181 (full story) over 180 (1st appearance).

 

CGC won't show up for another 18 years.

 

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kav

kav

Posted
Posted
Well didn't Overstreet and CGC calling it the first appearance have anything to do with it? If a book is more desired cause it has a fuller story, that shouldn't be a reason to start calling it the first appearance. Call it the second appearance and say that it is more sought after or something.

However I suspect it became more sought out as a key when the powers that be claimed it as the 'first appearance'.

 

CGC?

Market decided this was a key long before CGC was around.

 

181 is broken out for the first time in OSPG #8 (1978)

 

In 1982, OSPG calls #181 a "Wolverine appearance" and #180 a "1st appearance (cameo)", but prices continue to climb for 181 and not for 180.

In fact from 1981 to 1982, prices for 181 go from $5.25 to $16.00 while #180 goes from $12.00 to $6.00.

 

OSPG is TRYING to make 180 the book, but as X-Men readers seek out the start of Wolverine as a character, they choose 181 (full story) over 180 (1st appearance).

 

CGC won't show up for another 18 years.

Thx for clarifying.

Yep seems the market has already decided this one and I don't see it changing....

A first appearance is whatever the market decides it is. That's the best argument I've heard.

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slym2none

slym2none

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Posted
I could swear I just saw posts appear and disappear. Did we find cracks in the matrix?

 

That's twice. Weird, as some of the posts the first time were mine, and they definitely weren't offensive. I am about to repeat one of them, and wonder what will happen.

 

hm

 

 

 

-slym

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

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Hulk #180 is NOT A CAMEO.

doh!

If ONE PANEL - the absolute minimum appearance in comics - isn't a cameo/brief appearance, I don't know what is.

 

I used to be on the side of the 181 FA guys, but the more I read about it and think about it, I'm a convert: the 1st Appearance in a Comic Story IS 180. More appropriately, it is a 1st appearance AND cameo, while 181 is a first full story appearance.

 

:whee:

 

I just think that collectors fret about it, because they (and I) just feel 181 has far more value and I suppose that somehow the honor of first appearance is or should somehow be related to (particularly) monetary value and significance. But from a language viewpoint, one can't deny that wolverine made a prior appearance (or 1st one, albeit briefly) in 180. They should just denote it that way and let the investors sort out the values.

 

As others point out, Darkseid is a perfect example of a double standard in this line of thinking.

 

The main problem with denoting things like an Ad or even 180 as a first appearance in guides, is that it would/could mislead investors who aren't that familiar with the history. That's why it's important to denote the 1st appearance and cameo part.

 

The first cover appearance of a character....and I don't mean "in shadows", I mean "recognizable, obvious appearance" *SHOULD* be worth more than the "first appearance", even if it is 7 pages or so....and especially if it's a cameo. This is triply true in the CGC era of "covers are all that matter now."

 

It's why books like X-Men #109, #121, #130, #266, and #282 have historically outraced books like #129 (no Kitty in sight), #244 (No Jubilee) Avengers Annual #10 (think if Rogue was on that cover!), etc.

 

I know hindsight is 20/20, but it wouldn't have mattered if Wolvie was on every single page of #180. If he wasn't on the cover, #181 would be *at least* as valuable, if still not moreso.

 

It's one of the reasons why Spidey #129 has been such a clearcut winner for so many years, as well. It's just an amazing image, featuring a perfect introduction to the character (as opposed to #135, where he is buried in the cover.)

 

And if Thanos was on the cover of #55, this thread wouldn't exist...but that just goes back to the point I made earlier: villains simply didn't get the spotlight back then, like they do now (hence, Avengers Annual #10), and Thanos, while a really cool villain, was never THE focus of anything until Silver Surfer #34 in 1990. It's why there's no such thing as "First appearance of Thanos" in the OPG until 1992 (!!!)

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

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Posted

CGC?

Market decided this was a key long before CGC was around.

 

181 is broken out for the first time in OSPG #8 (1978)

 

 

I'm sorry, but you are mistaken.

 

The 1978 OPG has some character called "Walverine" broken out.

 

Clearly, they were referring to a different character....

 

:whistle:

 

(PS. #141...1st Doc Samson...was $1.50. The Warlock appearances of #177 and #178....$1.50. First "Walverine"....$1.20. Some kid in 1978: "Look, I'll trade you this #178 for your #181. It's worth more, too!" Second kid: "Yeah, ok! (score!!)...)

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