Was Iron Man 55 really Thanos true first appearance?

[Prince Namor]

I seriously doubt the last panel of Hulk 180 caused any hype whatsoever. Hulk was not all that great a seller back then, and there was next to no fan press. Even reading the Hulk Letter columns a few months after 181 appeared, there was little interest in the new Wolverine character.

In fact, many people who bought GS X-Men #1 didn't even realize it was the same guy.

 

It wasn't just the last panel. They advertised the hell out of wolverine. They used 180 to essentially announce he was the main event in 181. That's the reason there are so many 181s out there. They overprinted that one since they put some time into advertising the new character. Marvel wanted him to be the big anti-hero in the franchise. I can't find any links to prove this, but this is what I've been told. It seems to make sense since 181 is one of the easiest books in the bronze age to find.

 

Marvel, Len Wein, John Romita, Herb Trimpe and even Flo Steinburg had no idea that Wolverine would be anything other than a villain for a couple of issues. I don't have any links to prove this either, but I would imagine that if they had that big of a game plan for him, they wouldn't have waited almost a year to make his next appearance.

And there would've been no way for that panel to have an effect on 181's print total because newsstand was still the largest part of sales for Marvel at the time and those decisions would've been made before the book was ever released.

 

 

I agree, it makes absolutely no sense. If Marvel planned on making him this big character, why were Claremont and Cockrum so anxious to write him out of the X-MEN? If it wasn't for John Byrne insisting he stay in as the only Canadian ( Byrne being Canadian at the time ) he might have been just another character.

 

Yep. Marvel had no idea.

[bababooey]

I seriously doubt the last panel of Hulk 180 caused any hype whatsoever. Hulk was not all that great a seller back then, and there was next to no fan press. Even reading the Hulk Letter columns a few months after 181 appeared, there was little interest in the new Wolverine character.

In fact, many people who bought GS X-Men #1 didn't even realize it was the same guy.

 

It wasn't just the last panel. They advertised the hell out of wolverine. They used 180 to essentially announce he was the main event in 181. That's the reason there are so many 181s out there. They overprinted that one since they put some time into advertising the new character. Marvel wanted him to be the big anti-hero in the franchise. I can't find any links to prove this, but this is what I've been told. It seems to make sense since 181 is one of the easiest books in the bronze age to find.

 

Marvel, Len Wein, John Romita, Herb Trimpe and even Flo Steinburg had no idea that Wolverine would be anything other than a villain for a couple of issues. I don't have any links to prove this either, but I would imagine that if they had that big of a game plan for him, they wouldn't have waited almost a year to make his next appearance.

And there would've been no way for that panel to have an effect on 181's print total because newsstand was still the largest part of sales for Marvel at the time and those decisions would've been made before the book was ever released.

 

 

I agree, it makes absolutely no sense. If Marvel planned on making him this big character, why were Claremont and Cockrum so anxious to write him out of the X-MEN? If it wasn't for John Byrne insisting he stay in as the only Canadian ( Byrne being Canadian at the time ) he might have been just another character.

 

Yep. Marvel had no idea.

 

 

[bababooey]

Also earlier it was suggested there was little response to IH 181 and from IH 184 letters page - there's a panel sized reproduction of the 181 splash page between two complimentary letters and then an editorial paragraph about "reader feedback pouring in" "instantaneous and unanimous acclaim for the wondrous Wolverine" & finally, "You may be sure that we have plans for the Wolverine so keep your eyes peeled"

 

One letter writer even suggests putting him in the X-men.

So if Doug Stewart from Overland Park starts posting in the modern section, I'm there with

 

[Prince Namor]

Also earlier it was suggested there was little response to IH 181 and from IH 184 letters page - there's a panel sized reproduction of the 181 splash page between two complimentary letters and then an editorial paragraph about "reader feedback pouring in" "instantaneous and unanimous acclaim for the wondrous Wolverine" & finally, "You may be sure that we have plans for the Wolverine so keep your eyes peeled"

 

One letter writer even suggests putting him in the X-men.

So if Doug Stewart from Overland Park starts posting in the modern section, I'm there with

 

 

It's no secret that Marvel overstated many characters that way. Didn't the Mindworm in Amazing Spider-man have a similar ad?

I don't doubt there may have been some positive interest by letter writers for the character (though Marvel printed an overwhelmingly high percentage of positive letters), but really, does he even resemble or behave like the Wolverine that we know today? It could almost be called a prototype for the character.

And even if they did get "instantaneous and unanimous acclaim for the wondrous Wolverine", with newsstand distribution, Marvel wouldn't have had time to up their production of the next issue in the time it takes for the letters to come in. It was a different set up back then.

 

Marvel had big plans for everything they did in those days. They had big plans for the Man Wolf in Creatures on the Loose, which they heavily hyped. They heavily hyped Deathlok in Astonishing Tales and Killraven in Amazing Adventures. We look back on some of that stuff with great fondness today, but newsstand sales were slipping and the direct market was in its infancy.

In hindsight, they'd probably kill for some of those sales numbers today...

But they predicted (hyped) success for everything they did in those days. It's a marketing strategy. Just because one of them came true doesn't mean they predicted it.

 

[ChiSoxFan]

Marvel had big plans for everything they did in those days. They had big plans for the Man Wolf in Creatures on the Loose, which they heavily hyped. They heavily hyped Deathlok in Astonishing Tales and Killraven in Amazing Adventures.

 

Here's one of those above examples.

 

[ChiSoxFan]

Another one of those ads. Man, these bring me back.

 

[Bosco685]

Another one of those ads. Man, these bring me back.

 

 

The Glob. That guy is going to be huge!

 

[Bosco685]

Yep. Marvel had no idea.

 

Even his origin back then had some twist and turns without much planning involved. This one is interesting.

 

Comic Book Urban Legends Revealed #21!

 

Not the origin of a superstar in the works.

[Ken Aldred]

But they predicted (hyped) success for everything they did in those days. It's a marketing strategy. Just because one of them came true doesn't mean they predicted it.

 

Same for the New X-Men. Moribund title, reduced to being a reprint book, nothing to lose by relaunching it with a lot of new, untested characters. No genius master plan, just very lucky, including the decision to hire Dave Cockrum.

[Ken Aldred]

Yep. Marvel had no idea.

 

Even his origin back then had some twist and turns without much planning involved. This one is interesting.

 

Comic Book Urban Legends Revealed #21!

 

Not the origin of a superstar in the works.

 

Two characters on the team with very similar abilities - Wolverine and Thunderbird. One was expendable. Personally, at the time I preferred Thunderbird. Very glad he was eventually brought back, kind of.

[Theagenes]

Okay, so what's the first real comic appearance of Firestar? Sort of similar to Harley Quinn in that her first appearance was in a non-canonical Spiderman and his Amazing Friends one-shot, then several years later she debuted in the Marvel Universe in X-men 193.

 

Not that anyone cares about Firestar. Is she even still around?

[kidcolt]

IMO 180 is a better comic

 

I think that the first time a character appears in a comic is their 1st app...after all it is the first time they appeared in a comic Seems like we are told what we should buy as 1st app or keys. Collectors should get a way from buying what dealers and guidestell us to buy and start buying what they like and want. MOst collectors think that Hulk 180 is his 1st app but let the guides and cgc decide for them.

 

 

It's always an interesting discussion.

Personally, I think the first appearance of a given character is the first time it appears anywhere. A panel, a splash page, a cover, a full story, you name it.

 

I simply belive that is deeply wrong to name, for example, Hulk 181 the first appearance of Wolverine when he clearly appeared and named in Hulk 180, even if it's only a panel

Agreed! An appearance is an appearance whether it be brief or full. Hulk 180 should be the book of choice for Wolverine fans,clearly the 1st app. of wolvie.

[The-Collector]

IMO 180 is a better comic

 

I think that the first time a character appears in a comic is their 1st app...after all it is the first time they appeared in a comic Seems like we are told what we should buy as 1st app or keys. Collectors should get a way from buying what dealers and guidestell us to buy and start buying what they like and want. MOst collectors think that Hulk 180 is his 1st app but let the guides and cgc decide for them.

 

 

It's always an interesting discussion.

Personally, I think the first appearance of a given character is the first time it appears anywhere. A panel, a splash page, a cover, a full story, you name it.

 

I simply belive that is deeply wrong to name, for example, Hulk 181 the first appearance of Wolverine when he clearly appeared and named in Hulk 180, even if it's only a panel

Agreed! An appearance is an appearance whether it be brief or full. Hulk 180 should be the book of choice for Wolverine fans,clearly the 1st app. of wolvie.

 

Because I view it as wolverine's first apperance I have been searching for a IH 180 9.8 W for a year now. But I won't pay 181 prices because I know if I should ever have to sell I won't get my money back. So even though I don't agree with the markets pricing I still abide by it.

[Junkdrawer]

Gobbedlygook 1 just displays an ad forTMNT that is far less meaningful than say Hulk 180,its an ad not even a cameo.

[oakman29]

Gobbedlygook 1 just displays an ad forTMNT that is far less meaningful than say Hulk 180,its an ad not even a cameo.

Yet that is considered by many if not all TMNT fans to be the 1st app.

[Ken Aldred]

Gobbedlygook 1 just displays an ad forTMNT that is far less meaningful than say Hulk 180,its an ad not even a cameo.

Yet that is considered by many if not all TMNT fans to be the 1st app.

 

Is that all it is? Didn't know that.

[Dr. Balls]

Gobbedlygook 1 just displays an ad forTMNT that is far less meaningful than say Hulk 180,its an ad not even a cameo.

Yet that is considered by many if not all TMNT fans to be the 1st app.

 

According to some people - just seeing the characters for the very first time is enough to constitute a 1st appearance.

 

To me, Hulk 180 is nothing more than a one panel advertisement for a new character - albeit a good one. The dialogue and the action coming together within the story (whether it be one page or several pages, or the whole issue) is what defines a character's first "appearance". But, it's something that can be debateable until the end of time, I suppose.

[Logan510]

Money talks and 180 will never command the same money as 181

[Bosco685]

According to some people - just seeing the characters for the very first time is enough to constitute a 1st appearance.

 

In that case, then Saga of the Swamp Thing 25 is the 1st appearance of John Constantine when he makes his Sting-like appearance at a party. Of course, it is actually just a one-panel cameo right before the real 1st appearance.

[seanfingh]

According to some people - just seeing the characters for the very first time is enough to constitute a 1st appearance.

 

In that case, then Saga of the Swamp Thing 25 is the 1st appearance of John Constantine when he makes his Sting-like appearance at a party. Of course, it is actually just a one-panel cameo right before the real 1st appearance.

He is also in the crowd when the swordfish impales the guy in 27 or 28. There are at least two cameos and maybe more.