Was Iron Man 55 really Thanos true first appearance?

[Prince Namor]

Prices rising for an issue are generally brought about by demand.

 

Back in 1974-1985 there was no book shelf section of trade paperbacks to read stories you missed. You had to find the original comic if you wanted to read the story.

 

That's why a lot of people collected back issues. TO READ what happened.

 

Now as Wolverine got more popular, fans who wanted to go back and READ about his first appearance, were obviously going to look for 181, because he's actually IN the story. They considered that his first appearance.

 

It wouldn't be reprinted for 12 YEARS! No reprint, no digital, no internet....if you wanted to read it, you either found a back issue of it or you waited 12 years for the reprint!

 

[kidcolt]

It's amazing how much the Internet has changed collecting comics and sports cards. Now everything is just a click away. Back in the day if you found the card or comic you wanted you bought or traded for it and if you were lucky enough to own the item you kept it and cherished it. Collecting back then was very different.

 

Prices rising for an issue are generally brought about by demand.

 

Back in 1974-1985 there was no book shelf section of trade paperbacks to read stories you missed. You had to find the original comic if you wanted to read the story.

 

That's why a lot of people collected back issues. TO READ what happened.

 

Now as Wolverine got more popular, fans who wanted to go back and READ about his first appearance, were obviously going to look for 181, because he's actually IN the story. They considered that his first appearance.

 

It wouldn't be reprinted for 12 YEARS! No reprint, no digital, no internet....if you wanted to read it, you either found a back issue of it or you waited 12 years for the reprint!

[drestauro]

I don't mean this rhetorically, but why are there so many 181s available if they didn't overprint that book?

[Bio-Rupp]

There's more money to be made by selling 181's over 180's... makes sense they pop up more often and get slabbed more.

[aardvark88]

it was suggested there was little response to IH 181 and from IH 184 letters page - there's a panel sized reproduction of the 181 splash page between two complimentary letters and then an editorial paragraph about "reader feedback pouring in" "instantaneous and unanimous acclaim for the wondrous Wolverine" & finally, "You may be sure that we have plans for the Wolverine so keep your eyes peeled"

 

One letter writer even suggests putting him in the X-men.

I used to have the OA mock-up to this letter's page but sold it in a moment of stupidity!

 

 

[shadroch]

I don't mean this rhetorically, but why are there so many 181s available if they didn't overprint that book?

 

If issue 177, 179, 186 or 191 was selling for $1,000 or so in 9.0 , you would see just as many of them slabbed as you do 181s. The only thing 181 has going for it is that the Marvel Value stamp is cut in a good many of them. Otherwise, its just as easy to find nice copies of any of the surrounding Hulks, its just not worth slabbing most of them.

[nmtg9]

Wasn't 181 part of a warehouse find. Or a MH2 comic?

[drestauro]

I don't mean this rhetorically, but why are there so many 181s available if they didn't overprint that book?

 

If issue 177, 179, 186 or 191 was selling for $1,000 or so in 9.0 , you would see just as many of them slabbed as you do 181s. The only thing 181 has going for it is that the Marvel Value stamp is cut in a good many of them. Otherwise, its just as easy to find nice copies of any of the surrounding Hulks, its just not worth slabbing most of them.

 

ASM 129 was making mint for a very long time. Both those books came out in 74, have great cover appeal, and are iconic keys. ASM outsold Incredible Hulk by 33% in 1974, yet Incredible Hulk 181 out-grades 129 by 10%.

[234wallst]

ASM 129 was making mint for a very long time. Both those books came out in 74, have great cover appeal, and are iconic keys. ASM outsold Incredible Hulk by 33% in 1974, yet Incredible Hulk 181 out-grades 129 by 10%.

 

ASM 129 and Hulk 181 are not a fair comparison. The point at which you would want to grade ASM 129 is probably 7+. Whereas Hulk 181 you would probably grade anything 4-5+. So there will be less ASM 129 out there in the census. Now there's nothing wrong with getting the books slabbed in lower grades, but those are the sweet spots were they become definite submission candidates. As the book gets bigger in terms of value you slab the lower stuff; many people would still slab FF1 or AF15 in .5 1.0 1.5 1.8, but not likely for ASM 129 or Hulk 181.

 

I think the majority are "influenced" by popular opinion rather than making their own decisions. A collector will see Hulk 181 is supposedly THE Wolverine book to own and put that on their want list over 180. If anyone here is familiar with baseball cards look at 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle (true rookie card) versus the much more popular and iconic 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle. A collector who typically would desire true rookie cards would make an exception just because everyone else says one is superior over the other.

[General Zod]

Gobbedlygook 1 just displays an ad for TMNT that is far less meaningful than say Hulk 180, its an ad not even a cameo.

Yet that is considered by many if not all TMNT fans to be the 1st app.

 

Just goes to show how inconsistent the hivemind can be about first appearances. Throw Jimmy Olsen #134 into this equation as well. It's currently the hot book of choice for Darkseid's 1st appearance (rightly so, imho) but Forever People #1 is the 1st "full" appearance/fleshed out story of Darkseid. Which is kind of like the Hulk #181 of Darkseid.

[Bronx]

Agree the inconsistencies are a little maddening. This is where CGC can be very helpful. We tend to take the designation on the slab as gospel so it would be awesome if CGC released a list of all major first (cameo and full) appearances of major characters. This would allow fanboys to duke it out and petition CGC with any disagreements.

 

Thanos and Darkseid are two great examples.

 

For Thanos, Iron Man 55 is very similar to Ultron in Avengers 54 where the character shows up in very limited form and is not really the character in question. I believe Iron Man 55 should be a cameo and Captain Marvel 26 should be first full appearance. The market can than decide where the big money goes.

 

Darkseid has one panel cameos in Jimmy Olsen 134 and 135 which would be his cameo but the first full appearance is in Forever People 1. This would be similiar to Mystique's first appearances in Ms. Marvel 16,17 and 18.

 

The idea of a formal petition might actually make people read the comics they invest in because the petition process would have to present a case utilizing storyline discussion, panel count and show the artwork. It could also lead to some lively discussion on the boards if the petition process was opened up for the boards to comment.

 

Could be fun to rehash the conterversies behind first appearances of Thanos, Darkseid, Doomsday, Venom, Ultron... Noticing a common thread with some big heavy hitters here right!

Picture fanboys and speculators running to their comics to actually read all the comics in question and present their factual opinions and CGC listening and maybe even changing their slab designation based that. They could even generate some industry buzz by issuing press release whenever a big change is made.

 

I'm off to read Iron Man 55 and Captain Marvel 26 just to make sure my facts are right...

[chrisco37]

I just read both of those in the past week (IM55 and CM26), and actually just re-looked at IM55 last night.

 

I think it definitely qualifies as a first app. He is the center of the story (even if he doesn't appear on that many panels). You get a brief origin as well from The Destroyer. There's also the (near) full page splash of Thanos.

 

It's very similar to FF#48 and Galactus. Except Thanos appears in even more panels than Galactus did.

 

It's much more than just a true cameo (Hulk 180, ASM 299, etc.).

[Jeffro.]

Agree the inconsistencies are a little maddening. This is where CGC can be very helpful. We tend to take the designation on the slab as gospel so it would be awesome if CGC released a list of all major first (cameo and full) appearances of major characters. This would allow fanboys to duke it out and petition CGC with any disagreements.

 

I think the problem is more with people taking a label designation (or grade, or PQ) as gospel.

[joe_collector]

For Thanos, Iron Man 55 is very similar to Ultron in Avengers 54 where the character shows up in very limited form and is not really the character in question.

 

I think you really need at actually READ the comic before commenting, as Thanos is on SEVEN pages, including a full-body reveal, not counting the last 2 pages where he inserts a robot in order to blow up his ship. It shows him fighting with the Destroyer, talking to the imprisoned Destroyer, there is even an extended origin sequence, and the classic bit of him crushing Iron Man's glove under his heel.

 

I posted them on the first page of this thread, which you obviously didn't read either.

 

In fact, Thanos may hold a record for "most pages for a BA villain first app" as most are only one a few pages, and some only 1-2.

[AGGIEZ]

For Thanos, Iron Man 55 is very similar to Ultron in Avengers 54 where the character shows up in very limited form and is not really the character in question.

 

I think you really need at actually READ the comic before commenting, as Thanos is on SEVEN pages, including a full-body reveal, not counting the last 2 pages where he inserts a robot in order to blow up his ship. It shows him fighting with the Destroyer, talking to the imprisoned Destroyer, there is even an extended origin sequence, and the classic bit of him crushing Iron Man's glove under his heel.

 

I posted them on the first page of this thread, which you obviously didn't read either.

 

In fact, Thanos may hold a record for "most pages for a BA villain first app" as most are only one a few pages, and some only 1-2.

 

 

Do you have any clue how patronizing you are or are you oblivious to it?

[Jeffro.]

For Thanos, Iron Man 55 is very similar to Ultron in Avengers 54 where the character shows up in very limited form and is not really the character in question.

 

I think you really need at actually READ the comic before commenting, as Thanos is on SEVEN pages, including a full-body reveal, not counting the last 2 pages where he inserts a robot in order to blow up his ship. It shows him fighting with the Destroyer, talking to the imprisoned Destroyer, there is even an extended origin sequence, and the classic bit of him crushing Iron Man's glove under his heel.

 

I posted them on the first page of this thread, which you obviously didn't read either.

 

In fact, Thanos may hold a record for "most pages for a BA villain first app" as most are only one a few pages, and some only 1-2.

 

 

Do you have any clue how patronizing you are or are you oblivious to it?

 

How much did you pay for that JC post detection app? Does it alert you by text?

[joe_collector]

For Thanos, Iron Man 55 is very similar to Ultron in Avengers 54 where the character shows up in very limited form and is not really the character in question.

 

I think you really need at actually READ the comic before commenting, as Thanos is on SEVEN pages, including a full-body reveal, not counting the last 2 pages where he inserts a robot in order to blow up his ship. It shows him fighting with the Destroyer, talking to the imprisoned Destroyer, there is even an extended origin sequence, and the classic bit of him crushing Iron Man's glove under his heel.

 

I posted them on the first page of this thread, which you obviously didn't read either.

 

In fact, Thanos may hold a record for "most pages for a BA villain first app" as most are only one a few pages, and some only 1-2.

 

 

Do you have any clue how patronizing you are or are you oblivious to it?

 

How much did you pay for that JC post detection app? Does it alert you by text?

 

I've got more Trolls than the Brothers Grimm.

[joe_collector]

For Thanos, Iron Man 55 is very similar to Ultron in Avengers 54 where the character shows up in very limited form and is not really the character in question.

 

I think you really need at actually READ the comic before commenting, as Thanos is on SEVEN pages, including a full-body reveal, not counting the last 2 pages where he inserts a robot in order to blow up his ship. It shows him fighting with the Destroyer, talking to the imprisoned Destroyer, there is even an extended origin sequence, and the classic bit of him crushing Iron Man's glove under his heel.

 

I posted them on the first page of this thread, which you obviously didn't read either.

 

In fact, Thanos may hold a record for "most pages for a BA villain first app" as most are only one a few pages, and some only 1-2.

 

Do you have any clue how patronizing you are or are you oblivious to it?

 

If you don't want a "smack in the head" type post, then don't write several paragraphs about something you obviously have never read.

[conditionfreak]

For Thanos, Iron Man 55 is very similar to Ultron in Avengers 54 where the character shows up in very limited form and is not really the character in question.

 

I think you really need at actually READ the comic before commenting, as Thanos is on SEVEN pages, including a full-body reveal, not counting the last 2 pages where he inserts a robot in order to blow up his ship. It shows him fighting with the Destroyer, talking to the imprisoned Destroyer, there is even an extended origin sequence, and the classic bit of him crushing Iron Man's glove under his heel.

 

I posted them on the second page of this thread, which you obviously didn't read either.

 

In fact, Thanos may hold a record for "most pages for a BA villain first app" as most are only one a few pages, and some only 1-2.

 

Fixed that for you.

[joe_collector]

For Thanos, Iron Man 55 is very similar to Ultron in Avengers 54 where the character shows up in very limited form and is not really the character in question.

 

I think you really need at actually READ the comic before commenting, as Thanos is on SEVEN pages, including a full-body reveal, not counting the last 2 pages where he inserts a robot in order to blow up his ship. It shows him fighting with the Destroyer, talking to the imprisoned Destroyer, there is even an extended origin sequence, and the classic bit of him crushing Iron Man's glove under his heel.

 

I posted them on the FIRST page of this thread, which you obviously didn't read either.

 

In fact, Thanos may hold a record for "most pages for a BA villain first app" as most are only one a few pages, and some only 1-2.

 

Fixed that for you.

 

What is the default posts per page? I don't remember changing mine, and I just checked and the images are in the first page.