Wizard First Program - Not April's Fools

[PovertyRow]

So, Steve, you're not a liar. Fine. But you also aren't one given to sharing information, and that makes you just as bad. And don't use the "I'm busy grading books!" excuse, please. It's a little late for excuses.

 

Clark will you just SHUT UP and get off Steve's BACK? He is a wonderful guy and I enjoy talking with him.

 

He is also hosting the CGC dinner at Wondercon and if you tick him off to the point he doesn't join us and we have to foot the bill I swear..........well........you can just IMAGINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sborock]

Another question that's bugging me.....

 

Why the hell didn't someone from CGC come on here and debunk the whole "it was an April's Fools joke" thread? They obviously knew the info was correct but instead let everyone believe it was a joke? They've always been quick to correct speculation in the past.....

 

Very, very uncool.....

 

Jim

 

Borock doesn't seem to understand that while telling a lie is NOT the same as just remaining silent when one knows the truth, both methods are extremely damaging to one's credibility when the truth does eventually come out.

 

So, Steve, you're not a liar. Fine. But you also aren't one given to sharing information, and that makes you just as bad. And don't use the "I'm busy grading books!" excuse, please. It's a little late for excuses.

 

 

 

I don't have to share information about upcoming CGC projects until they are ready to launch. We saw the April Fools thread and thought it was a hoot. The thread died quick and we thought it was perfect not to answer it on April Fools.

[deathlok]

Great column. I was thinking exactly the same thing on all counts. I got a free grading submission for organizing the CGC forum dinner. Now I not only don't want the freebie, but I am not going to submit any books to CGC while this program is in effect. This whole thing is absolute [!@#%^&^] and I am personally offended not only because CGC would sell out its integrity to a company like WIZARD, but also because of Steve's comment about the "If I ran my company the way people on message boards want me to" quote from Joe Q. We are (or were) your CUSTOMERS, Steve. If you don't listen to us, then we don't have to use you. Most of us can grade books on our own, and can learn how to detect resto on our own. You are not bigger than the hobby, and that kind of arrogance (that you don't need to listen to your customers and don't care what they think, or how many small store owners you hurt by allowing Wizard first crack at high grade slabbed books on a special grading scale) really makes me mad. Those guys have a hard enough time making ends meet as it is. Now you want to hurt them in one of the few areas that has allowed them to improve their business in the last decade? I really, really, truly hope that this move comes back to bite you all in the [!@#%^&^].

 

what a joke

 

Wizard has long since attempted to create unique Wizard-exclusive items. They have had much success with many of their items. This is yet another attempt to cash in on a successful trend. Again, time will tell if this is successful or not. I think it will be a mistake to slap a CGC label on the books. They should have designed a new and different label with the Wizard logo featured on it. Something that at a quick glance you would be able to tell it was one of the Wizard first books.

 

the fact that many of you whine about not using CGC services while this program is in effect, is [!@#%^&^]. Don't use their service, that's great. Maybe the turnaround times will get better for it. While I'm sure CGC appreciates our business, I highly doubt they will go under because a handful of collectors refuse to use their service.

[FFB]

He's paying for appetizers, not dinner. Bring your wallet.

 

So, Steve, you're not a liar. Fine. But you also aren't one given to sharing information, and that makes you just as bad. And don't use the "I'm busy grading books!" excuse, please. It's a little late for excuses.

 

Clark will you just SHUT UP and get off Steve's BACK? He is a wonderful guy and I enjoy talking with him.

 

He is also hosting the CGC dinner at Wondercon and if you tick him off to the point he doesn't join us and we have to foot the bill I swear..........well........you can just IMAGINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Clark Khaos-migration]

So, Steve, you're not a liar. Fine. But you also aren't one given to sharing information, and that makes you just as bad. And don't use the "I'm busy grading books!" excuse, please. It's a little late for excuses.

 

Clark will you just SHUT UP and get off Steve's BACK? He is a wonderful guy and I enjoy talking with him.

 

He is also hosting the CGC dinner at Wondercon and if you tick him off to the point he doesn't join us and we have to foot the bill I swear..........well........you can just IMAGINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

That's great that you love him so much. The fact that you so staunchly defend him is a tribute to your character. Do you treat all your friends with such high regard?

[deathlok]

Another question that's bugging me.....

 

Why the hell didn't someone from CGC come on here and debunk the whole "it was an April's Fools joke" thread? They obviously knew the info was correct but instead let everyone believe it was a joke? They've always been quick to correct speculation in the past.....

 

Very, very uncool.....

 

Jim

 

Borock doesn't seem to understand that while telling a lie is NOT the same as just remaining silent when one knows the truth, both methods are extremely damaging to one's credibility when the truth does eventually come out.

 

So, Steve, you're not a liar. Fine. But you also aren't one given to sharing information, and that makes you just as bad. And don't use the "I'm busy grading books!" excuse, please. It's a little late for excuses.

 

It's not his Steve's job to respond to these message boards. He has more important things to do. Somehow you people complain when the mods enforce things too much, now you want to cry when they don't do enough.

[Foolkiller]

"If I ran my business by what the message boards and the internet wanted, I would have been out of the business." - Joe Quesada

 

 

actually... football... i like this quote, because quite honestly it's true. I'm not suggesting that Steve and his crew seriously consider all of the garbage lobbed up on the boards or at shows etc. I'm sure they do carefully listen to us, but they aren't going to run a company based on the masses opinion of the moment. But I hope somebody over CGC thought about the public backlash on this one before they agreed to do it with Wizard...

 

Now if the 10.0 standard is remaining a 10.0 -- what is a 9.5? Why is Wizard's 9.5 different -- why is there a new grading system if you are still using CGC's own 10.0? Isn't this going to be more confusing -- cause now I'm confused -- on the one hand you're saying this is Wizard's grading system, and so clearly recognizable to all, and on the other hand your saying the integrity of the standard for a 10.0 isn't changing at all. That sounds like it's something in between. Why not just use the normal system?

[Clark Khaos-migration]

Another question that's bugging me.....

 

Why the hell didn't someone from CGC come on here and debunk the whole "it was an April's Fools joke" thread? They obviously knew the info was correct but instead let everyone believe it was a joke? They've always been quick to correct speculation in the past.....

 

Very, very uncool.....

 

Jim

 

Borock doesn't seem to understand that while telling a lie is NOT the same as just remaining silent when one knows the truth, both methods are extremely damaging to one's credibility when the truth does eventually come out.

 

So, Steve, you're not a liar. Fine. But you also aren't one given to sharing information, and that makes you just as bad. And don't use the "I'm busy grading books!" excuse, please. It's a little late for excuses.

 

 

 

I don't have to share information about upcoming CGC projects until they are ready to launch. We saw the April Fools thread and thought it was a hoot. The thread died quick and we thought it was perfect not to answer it on April Fools.

 

Sure is funny now, isn't it?

 

BTW, in response to your OTHER previous post, don't try to deflect attention from YOUR company's shortcomings by directing attention at your Distinguished Competition. That was weak.

 

Real weak.

 

Again, YOUR silence (as "The Boss") on subjects like this is essentially misinformation. It's the same as lying, only more morally ambiguous.

[Clark Khaos-migration]

Another question that's bugging me.....

 

Why the hell didn't someone from CGC come on here and debunk the whole "it was an April's Fools joke" thread? They obviously knew the info was correct but instead let everyone believe it was a joke? They've always been quick to correct speculation in the past.....

 

Very, very uncool.....

 

Jim

 

Borock doesn't seem to understand that while telling a lie is NOT the same as just remaining silent when one knows the truth, both methods are extremely damaging to one's credibility when the truth does eventually come out.

 

So, Steve, you're not a liar. Fine. But you also aren't one given to sharing information, and that makes you just as bad. And don't use the "I'm busy grading books!" excuse, please. It's a little late for excuses.

 

It's not his Steve's job to respond to these message boards. He has more important things to do. Somehow you people complain when the mods enforce things too much, now you want to cry when they don't do enough.

 

Who's complaining about the Mods? When have I EVER complained about the Mods? I do, however, CONTINUALLY complain about the deafening silence from Borock's office on important matters.

 

And he has "more important things to do" than keep his customers informed? Nice work, Sheep. You're doing a fine job.

[sborock]

I honestly have no clue what you are talking about

[drbanner]

Now if the 10.0 standard is remaining a 10.0 -- what is a 9.5? Why is Wizard's 9.5 different -- why is there a new grading system if you are still using CGC's own 10.0? Isn't this going to be more confusing -- cause now I'm confused -- on the one hand you're saying this is Wizard's grading system, and so clearly recognizable to all, and on the other hand your saying the integrity of the standard for a 10.0 isn't changing at all. That sounds like it's something in between. Why not just use the normal system?

 

In my best Mike-Myers-wearing-a-Kilt impression:

 

"When it comes to moderns, if it's not 10.0, it's crrrop!"

[PovertyRow]

He's paying for appetizers, not dinner. Bring your wallet.

 

Would aperitifs be considered appetizers???? And would rum and coke be considered an aperitif?

[Clark Khaos-migration]

He's paying for appetizers, not dinner. Bring your wallet.

 

[deathlok]

Another question that's bugging me.....

 

Why the hell didn't someone from CGC come on here and debunk the whole "it was an April's Fools joke" thread? They obviously knew the info was correct but instead let everyone believe it was a joke? They've always been quick to correct speculation in the past.....

 

Very, very uncool.....

 

Jim

 

Borock doesn't seem to understand that while telling a lie is NOT the same as just remaining silent when one knows the truth, both methods are extremely damaging to one's credibility when the truth does eventually come out.

 

So, Steve, you're not a liar. Fine. But you also aren't one given to sharing information, and that makes you just as bad. And don't use the "I'm busy grading books!" excuse, please. It's a little late for excuses.

 

 

It's not his Steve's job to respond to these message boards. He has more important things to do. Somehow you people complain when the mods enforce things too much, now you want to cry when they don't do enough.

 

Who's complaining about the Mods? When have I EVER complained about the Mods? I do, however, CONTINUALLY complain about the deafening silence from Borock's office on important matters.

 

And he has "more important things to do" than keep his customers informed? Nice work, Sheep. You're doing a fine job.

 

 

again, it's not his job to come on these message boards to inform/not inform what CGC does. If you have specific questions that you want answered, call CGC, but don't whine that you weren't told everything that is going on. Call them. It has nothing to do with their credibility. you like many others assume that the users on this message board are the majority of CGC clients. not by a longshot. of course if you weren't so busy instigating flame wars on this board and the CPG boards then maybe you might learn a thing or two, wouldn't you BUG?

[PovertyRow]

He's paying for appetizers, not dinner. Bring your wallet.

 

 

I'm sure that made your day.

[FFB]

I don't care if they go under or not. Until last night when I found out about this, I was as pro-CGC as you can get and thought that they were a great part of the hobby. Now they look like a bunch of sellouts to me. Sorry Steve, I know you're reading this and I think you're a nice guy, but that's what I think. You cannot maintain an air of impartiality, INTEGRITY (it's more than just a buzzword and it means you PASS UP the easy money when taking it means you have to set up an inherently ethically conflicted business model) and "blind grading" when you set up a special grading tier for ONE CUSTOMER, where your "special graders" KNOW who the customer is. You can't have it both ways. It's like being a little bit pregnant. You either have integrity or you don't.

 

My point in my prior post, Deathlok, is that I refuse to use a grading service that sells out to the highest bidder, and that is what is happening here, no matter how you package it. You think it's a joke? That's your prerogative. Stick your head in the sand all you want. Doesn't mean the rest of us have to. And if the Wizard First program provides CGC with enough money to offset those collectors who will stop using the service (including all of the store owners who will stop sending in pre-screens once their customers start buying the Wizard books instead, leaving the "regular" CGC moderns in the store owners' inventories), then perhaps the Wizard First program isn't going to be as "limited" in number as we've been led to believe? Let's see what Lighthouse thinks of this program....

 

I think it sucks and CGC won't see a dime of my money if this is their idea of how to run an "impartial" third party grading service. Whether my dimes or anyone else's dimes add up to "real money" for CGC remains to be seen.

 

Great column. I was thinking exactly the same thing on all counts. I got a free grading submission for organizing the CGC forum dinner. Now I not only don't want the freebie, but I am not going to submit any books to CGC while this program is in effect. This whole thing is absolute [!@#%^&^] and I am personally offended not only because CGC would sell out its integrity to a company like WIZARD, but also because of Steve's comment about the "If I ran my company the way people on message boards want me to" quote from Joe Q. We are (or were) your CUSTOMERS, Steve. If you don't listen to us, then we don't have to use you. Most of us can grade books on our own, and can learn how to detect resto on our own. You are not bigger than the hobby, and that kind of arrogance (that you don't need to listen to your customers and don't care what they think, or how many small store owners you hurt by allowing Wizard first crack at high grade slabbed books on a special grading scale) really makes me mad. Those guys have a hard enough time making ends meet as it is. Now you want to hurt them in one of the few areas that has allowed them to improve their business in the last decade? I really, really, truly hope that this move comes back to bite you all in the [!@#%^&^].

 

what a joke

 

Wizard has long since attempted to create unique Wizard-exclusive items. They have had much success with many of their items. This is yet another attempt to cash in on a successful trend. Again, time will tell if this is successful or not. I think it will be a mistake to slap a CGC label on the books. They should have designed a new and different label with the Wizard logo featured on it. Something that at a quick glance you would be able to tell it was one of the Wizard first books.

 

the fact that many of you whine about not using CGC services while this program is in effect, is [!@#%^&^]. Don't use their service, that's great. Maybe the turnaround times will get better for it. While I'm sure CGC appreciates our business, I highly doubt they will go under because a handful of collectors refuse to use their service.

[AlexH]

Would anyone be happier if the 9.5 disappeared, and the regular grading system took over?

 

 

Is this a possibility Steve?

[Clark Khaos-migration]

I honestly have no clue what you are talking about

 

I went back and changed a "this" to "that" to help you out, Steve. (Or maybe a "that" to "this", but either way, you're being intentionally obstinate, eh?)

 

Maybe this will help with the rest? Amazing that you already forgot. You decided to try to direct attention away from the current issue and back toward CGG with the following:

 

 

I can understand what you are saying BUT I and CGC are not anything like cgg and that guy that runs/owns it. CGC has never:

 

Hid the fact of what our holder is made of until we were forced to say what is was when exposed.

 

Sent false scans of a book and said it was sent by a mystery employee who we "fired"

 

Missed restoration and then blamed our submitters for "switching" books

 

Put up phoney testimonials on our web site

 

Lied about consulting industry experts for our grading standards

 

Never skipped a restoration check on books because we know/trust the people submitting them.

 

Never said something like "The more we try to explain things, the worse we look"

 

I could go on, but I just don't like being compared to a shady outfit.

 

I understand that some people won't like this Wizard First thing, that's life, I will deal with it. But unlike cgg, I have never given people a reason to doubt my honesty or my integrity.

[deathlok]

I don't care if they go under or not. Until last night when I found out about this, I was as pro-CGC as you can get and thought that they were a great part of the hobby. Now they look like a bunch of sellouts to me. Sorry Steve, I know you're reading this and I think you're a nice guy, but that's what I think. You cannot maintain an air of impartiality, INTEGRITY (it's more than just a buzzword and it means you PASS UP the easy money when taking it means you have to set up an inherently ethically conflicted business model) and "blind grading" when you set up a special grading tier for ONE CUSTOMER, where your "special graders" KNOW who the customer is. You can't have it both ways. It's like being a little bit pregnant. You either have integrity or you don't.

 

My point in my prior post, Deathlok, is that I refuse to use a grading service that sells out to the highest bidder, and that is what is happening here, no matter how you package it. You think it's a joke? That's your prerogative. Stick your head in the sand all you want. Doesn't mean the rest of us have to. And if the Wizard First program provides CGC with enough money to offset those collectors who will stop using the service (including all of the store owners who will stop sending in pre-screens once their customers start buying the Wizard books instead, leaving the "regular" CGC moderns in the store owners' inventories), then perhaps the Wizard First program isn't going to be as "limited" in number as we've been led to believe? Let's see what Lighthouse thinks of this program....

 

I think it sucks and CGC won't see a dime of my money if this is their idea of how to run an "impartial" third party grading service. Whether my dimes or anyone else's dimes add up to "real money" for CGC remains to be seen.

 

Great column. I was thinking exactly the same thing on all counts. I got a free grading submission for organizing the CGC forum dinner. Now I not only don't want the freebie, but I am not going to submit any books to CGC while this program is in effect. This whole thing is absolute [!@#%^&^] and I am personally offended not only because CGC would sell out its integrity to a company like WIZARD, but also because of Steve's comment about the "If I ran my company the way people on message boards want me to" quote from Joe Q. We are (or were) your CUSTOMERS, Steve. If you don't listen to us, then we don't have to use you. Most of us can grade books on our own, and can learn how to detect resto on our own. You are not bigger than the hobby, and that kind of arrogance (that you don't need to listen to your customers and don't care what they think, or how many small store owners you hurt by allowing Wizard first crack at high grade slabbed books on a special grading scale) really makes me mad. Those guys have a hard enough time making ends meet as it is. Now you want to hurt them in one of the few areas that has allowed them to improve their business in the last decade? I really, really, truly hope that this move comes back to bite you all in the [!@#%^&^].

 

what a joke

 

Wizard has long since attempted to create unique Wizard-exclusive items. They have had much success with many of their items. This is yet another attempt to cash in on a successful trend. Again, time will tell if this is successful or not. I think it will be a mistake to slap a CGC label on the books. They should have designed a new and different label with the Wizard logo featured on it. Something that at a quick glance you would be able to tell it was one of the Wizard first books.

 

the fact that many of you whine about not using CGC services while this program is in effect, is [!@#%^&^]. Don't use their service, that's great. Maybe the turnaround times will get better for it. While I'm sure CGC appreciates our business, I highly doubt they will go under because a handful of collectors refuse to use their service.

 

just ot let you know I also think it's a bad for the hobby. Even if CGC is getting a large payday from this. I don't think the LCS will be effected by this, as most of them don't use CGC's service anyway. I won't be buying any of the Wizard first books, but I will continue to use CGC.

[Clark Khaos-migration]

He's paying for appetizers, not dinner. Bring your wallet.

 

 

I'm sure that made your day.

 

You have NO idea.