Moderns that are heating up on ebay! 71 71

[Lonzilla]

His EXISTENCE as a gay person is reflecting the REALITY (not "unlikeliness") that, um, some people are gay. If you can accept the unlikeliness of a dude turning to ice, with a little work you can probably accept the unlikeliness of a dude turning to other dudes.

The talking point is the fact this character has been well established for 50+ years. As vaillant said, it's poor storytelling. Develop a new character.

 

for those who haven't read it. Its not the Iceman you grew up with who is being outted.

 

Its the teenage Iceman who time-traveled to the present day from his teenage past. I don't think its so unreasonable to think that there were many teenagers in the 60's who if they were teens today would be more likely to accept themselves as gay and live gay lives, but because of tradition and societal pressures of the 60's did not do so.

 

I know that there's nature vs nurture blah blah blah, I'm just saying that the scenario is not so unreasonable, and is not necessarily a bad storyline based on just what we know so far. That doesn't mean it will be a great story, just that its not automatically horrible.

 

I think it actually would be interesting to examine how a gay teen from the 60's would view the present day, and also how the REAL (as far as we know non-gay) ICEMAN (the one everyone is so mad about without knowing having read xmen in 10+ years) would respond to knowing his younger self came-out. Now, they still might botch it, and it might be trite or dumb, or self-serving, but if you're automatically dismissive of it, you might consider digging a little deeper as to why that is.

 

Why didn't Jean catch this from the beginning...?

 

Nevermind. I don't care, .

Why don't they make The Falcon gay too, or is the whole downlow thing taboo?

How about The Swordsman. I can see that with the David Niven moustache and way too much purple in his costume for a straight man

[revat]

His EXISTENCE as a gay person is reflecting the REALITY (not "unlikeliness") that, um, some people are gay. If you can accept the unlikeliness of a dude turning to ice, with a little work you can probably accept the unlikeliness of a dude turning to other dudes.

The talking point is the fact this character has been well established for 50+ years. As vaillant said, it's poor storytelling. Develop a new character.

 

for those who haven't read it. Its not the Iceman you grew up with who is being outted.

 

Its the teenage Iceman who time-traveled to the present day from his teenage past. I don't think its so unreasonable to think that there were many teenagers in the 60's who if they were teens today would be more likely to accept themselves as gay and live gay lives, but because of tradition and societal pressures of the 60's did not do so.

 

I know that there's nature vs nurture blah blah blah, I'm just saying that the scenario is not so unreasonable, and is not necessarily a bad storyline based on just what we know so far. That doesn't mean it will be a great story, just that its not automatically horrible.

 

I think it actually would be interesting to examine how a gay teen from the 60's would view the present day, and also how the REAL (as far as we know non-gay) ICEMAN (the one everyone is so mad about without knowing having read xmen in 10+ years) would respond to knowing his younger self came-out. Now, they still might botch it, and it might be trite or dumb, or self-serving, but if you're automatically dismissive of it, you might consider digging a little deeper as to why that is.

 

Why didn't Jean catch this from the beginning...?

 

Nevermind. I don't care, .

Why don't they make The Falcon gay too, or is the whole downlow thing taboo?

How about The Swordsman. I can see that with the David Niven moustache and way too much purple in his costume for a straight man

 

Have Val Kilmer sign your All New X men 40.

[Aweandlorder]

[jsilverjanet]

First gay appearance? This may be the dumbest discussion I've ever seen on here and that's saying a lot.

 

I was making a joke, not having a serious discussion. Haven't read nor cared about the X-Men in decades.

 

so now you're saying you don't care about gay people

 

[JTLarsen]

His EXISTENCE as a gay person is reflecting the REALITY (not "unlikeliness") that, um, some people are gay. If you can accept the unlikeliness of a dude turning to ice, with a little work you can probably accept the unlikeliness of a dude turning to other dudes.

The talking point is the fact this character has been well established for 50+ years. As vaillant said, it's poor storytelling. Develop a new character.

 

No, the character's been revised a million ways over 50 years. And every few years the writers re-examine these characters for the times in which they're NOW being written. Do you really want Bobby written as if this were still the early '60s? No. Except when it comes to his sexuality. Wonder why that is.

[krighton]

i don't like the fact that the writer has locked down Bobby as gay forever....he's been straight for 50 years and now there's no going back...every romantic storyline till the end of time will be Bobby with a guy no matter how they want to reimagine the character.

[Legion HQ]

Couple things about the Iceman situation....

 

1. For Northstar, CGC labeled Alpha Flight #106 as 'Northstar revelation issue'. Might do the same here.

 

2. Regarding the argument of "if you want to make someone gay, make a new character gay, not an established one"....well, they have done that, many times. In this instance, apparently Bendis made a strong argument about Bobby's history with the ladies, and TPTB felt it completely valid. The interesting thing is, perspective-wise, you ask a straight guy and he will likely have the reaction most of you have -- He's always dated women! They're retconning him! But then you ask a gay guy and he might see it as --- Yep, can't hold down a woman in how many years? Dated a woman (Rogue) that he can't ever touch? Ding ding ding. I think it's very interesting.

[500Club]

His EXISTENCE as a gay person is reflecting the REALITY (not "unlikeliness") that, um, some people are gay. If you can accept the unlikeliness of a dude turning to ice, with a little work you can probably accept the unlikeliness of a dude turning to other dudes.

The talking point is the fact this character has been well established for 50+ years. As vaillant said, it's poor storytelling. Develop a new character.

 

for those who haven't read it. Its not the Iceman you grew up with who is being outted.

 

Its the teenage Iceman who time-traveled to the present day from his teenage past. I don't think its so unreasonable to think that there were many teenagers in the 60's who if they were teens today would be more likely to accept themselves as gay and live gay lives, but because of tradition and societal pressures of the 60's did not do so.

Interesting. Point taken. I read the first three issues of All-New XMen, then bailed, so I am, indeed, a lapsed reader. My knee jerk reaction is toward what looked like more cheap cliffhanger storytelling.

 

I agree with your points, and am curious to see how they handle the non time-travelling Iceman.

 

PS Are the X books any good? I've not really liked them for years.

[500Club]

His EXISTENCE as a gay person is reflecting the REALITY (not "unlikeliness") that, um, some people are gay. If you can accept the unlikeliness of a dude turning to ice, with a little work you can probably accept the unlikeliness of a dude turning to other dudes.

The talking point is the fact this character has been well established for 50+ years. As vaillant said, it's poor storytelling. Develop a new character.

 

No, the character's been revised a million ways over 50 years. And every few years the writers re-examine these characters for the times in which they're NOW being written. Do you really want Bobby written as if this were still the early '60s? No. Except when it comes to his sexuality. Wonder why that is.

Cheap shot. Give it a rest.

 

Moot point, with Revat's clarification. But, there are certain things about people that don't change. I believe sexual orientation to be one of them. I believe gay people are aware of their orientation from the get go (can any of the gay board members chime in).

[Taco]

Edited April 23, 2015 by Taco

[Legion HQ]

His EXISTENCE as a gay person is reflecting the REALITY (not "unlikeliness") that, um, some people are gay. If you can accept the unlikeliness of a dude turning to ice, with a little work you can probably accept the unlikeliness of a dude turning to other dudes.

The talking point is the fact this character has been well established for 50+ years. As vaillant said, it's poor storytelling. Develop a new character.

 

No, the character's been revised a million ways over 50 years. And every few years the writers re-examine these characters for the times in which they're NOW being written. Do you really want Bobby written as if this were still the early '60s? No. Except when it comes to his sexuality. Wonder why that is.

Cheap shot. Give it a rest.

 

Moot point, with Revat's clarification. But, there are certain things about people that don't change. I believe sexual orientation to be one of them. I believe gay people are aware of their orientation from the get go (can any of the gay board members chime in).

 

I became aware when I hit puberty. Didn't quite understand it other than that I found myself beginning to be attracted to my male classmates. Then I think it completely dawned on me that I was gay in 8th/9th grade. I honestly don't understand how someone can be in such deep denial all their life until they are well into their adult years. But then again, I've always been pretty introspective and independent-minded, and could easily skirt around the fringes of social circles without much attention given to me. I did always feel sorry for popular guys or athletes who have such a spotlight on them that they feel forced to suppress any such feelings until it blows up in their face later in life (so to speak). Someone else brought up the point that if you're already a minority (black, mutant, whatever), then you simply may not want to deal with one more knock against you in the eyes of society, so covering up your sexuality is the easier solution for many.

[revat]

His EXISTENCE as a gay person is reflecting the REALITY (not "unlikeliness") that, um, some people are gay. If you can accept the unlikeliness of a dude turning to ice, with a little work you can probably accept the unlikeliness of a dude turning to other dudes.

The talking point is the fact this character has been well established for 50+ years. As vaillant said, it's poor storytelling. Develop a new character.

 

No, the character's been revised a million ways over 50 years. And every few years the writers re-examine these characters for the times in which they're NOW being written. Do you really want Bobby written as if this were still the early '60s? No. Except when it comes to his sexuality. Wonder why that is.

Cheap shot. Give it a rest.

 

Moot point, with Revat's clarification. But, there are certain things about people that don't change. I believe sexual orientation to be one of them. I believe gay people are aware of their orientation from the get go (can any of the gay board members chime in).

 

I became aware when I hit puberty. Didn't quite understand it other than that I found myself beginning to be attracted to my male classmates. Then I think it completely dawned on me that I was gay in 8th/9th grade. I honestly don't understand how someone can be in such deep denial all their life until they are well into their adult years. But then again, I've always been pretty introspective and independent-minded, and could easily skirt around the fringes of social circles without much attention given to me. I did always feel sorry for popular guys or athletes who have such a spotlight on them that they feel forced to suppress any such feelings until it blows up in their face later in life (so to speak). Someone else brought up the point that if you're already a minority (black, mutant, whatever), then you simply may not want to deal with one more knock against you in the eyes of society, so covering up your sexuality is the easier solution for many.

 

 

Before the past 30ish years, a lot of kids/teens grew up not even knowing that 'gay' could be a characteristic that a person had, other than the occasional mention of sin in church. Some gay people probably think they just hadn't met the right person, or had suppressed it down to the point where it was out of the stream of consciousness compared to everything else going on in life.

 

I don't think the coming out story is so far-fetched from reality (time traveling man who controls ice aside).

[krighton]

Any moderns heating up on ebay

Edited April 23, 2015 by krighton

[MediumLover]

His EXISTENCE as a gay person is reflecting the REALITY (not "unlikeliness") that, um, some people are gay. If you can accept the unlikeliness of a dude turning to ice, with a little work you can probably accept the unlikeliness of a dude turning to other dudes.

The talking point is the fact this character has been well established for 50+ years. As vaillant said, it's poor storytelling. Develop a new character.

 

No, the character's been revised a million ways over 50 years. And every few years the writers re-examine these characters for the times in which they're NOW being written. Do you really want Bobby written as if this were still the early '60s? No. Except when it comes to his sexuality. Wonder why that is.

Cheap shot. Give it a rest.

 

Moot point, with Revat's clarification. But, there are certain things about people that don't change. I believe sexual orientation to be one of them. I believe gay people are aware of their orientation from the get go (can any of the gay board members chime in).

 

 

 

I became aware when I hit puberty. Didn't quite understand it other than that I found myself beginning to be attracted to my male classmates. Then I think it completely dawned on me that I was gay in 8th/9th grade. I honestly don't understand how someone can be in such deep denial all their life until they are well into their adult years. But then again, I've always been pretty introspective and independent-minded, and could easily skirt around the fringes of social circles without much attention given to me. I did always feel sorry for popular guys or athletes who have such a spotlight on them that they feel forced to suppress any such feelings until it blows up in their face later in life (so to speak). Someone else brought up the point that if you're already a minority (black, mutant, whatever), then you simply may not want to deal with one more knock against you in the eyes of society, so covering up your sexuality is the easier solution for many.

 

dane323,

 

Thanks for responding, I appreciate your candor.

Edited April 23, 2015 by MediumLover

[valiantman]

Any moderns heating up on ebay

 

These probably came out of a dollar box.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251927674415

 

 

[500Club]

I don't think the coming out story is so far-fetched from reality (time traveling man who controls ice aside).

It's not. That's the 16 year old Bobby Drake. In isolation, it would probably be a very accurate portrayal of life events and personal discovery.

 

But, if he's the same character as the Bobby Drake who we've followed for 50 years (and he is), there's some awkward retrofitting here still.

[revat]

Any moderns heating up on ebay

 

These probably came out of a dollar box.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251927674415

 

 

I've been buying up some random valiants lately, hopefully there's a few of these in the stack. I know nothing about them, so I was just working off of a list. I'm not sure what else I've got, but I know I have a lot of Shadowman 8 and 16, so hopefully those will get valuable.

[Legion HQ]

 

dane323,

 

Thanks for responding, I appreciate your candor.

 

(thumbs u

[Flatliner1313]

I usually hate to point to FCBD stuff, since having speculators rush in and take the books kind of defeats the purpose of the event.

 

However, there is an Attack on Titan book in the mix, which may be the first Attack on Titan story published in the western comic style. I could be wrong, but I haven't ever seen any others.

 

On the negative side, I believe it's just a reprint of a part from the existing Manga.

 

 

 

 

[JTLarsen]

His EXISTENCE as a gay person is reflecting the REALITY (not "unlikeliness") that, um, some people are gay. If you can accept the unlikeliness of a dude turning to ice, with a little work you can probably accept the unlikeliness of a dude turning to other dudes.

The talking point is the fact this character has been well established for 50+ years. As vaillant said, it's poor storytelling. Develop a new character.

 

No, the character's been revised a million ways over 50 years. And every few years the writers re-examine these characters for the times in which they're NOW being written. Do you really want Bobby written as if this were still the early '60s? No. Except when it comes to his sexuality. Wonder why that is.

Cheap shot. Give it a rest.

 

Moot point, with Revat's clarification. But, there are certain things about people that don't change. I believe sexual orientation to be one of them. I believe gay people are aware of their orientation from the get go (can any of the gay board members chime in).

 

Not a cheap shot. Genuine curiosity. If your explanation is that "certain things" don't change (which, btw, no basis in reality) then tell us all the other things you've objected to equally when they changed over the past decades. And if it's just homosexuality you have a problem with a writer changing, maybe you should wonder why, too.