Moderns that are heating up on ebay! 71 71

[jsilverjanet]

[Prince Namor]

Just because someone might not agree with you doesn't mean it's censorship.

 

Simply not agreeing with someone would be if Manara was allowed to release his cover artwork as originally intended via the medium he originally intended and then having him and his art be addressed, commented on, and criticized by the masses.

 

Disagreeing with said artwork and then posturing oneself in a way to deprive other people of the ability to consume said artwork IS censorship.

 

You don't speak for me and you don't speak for the artist, your thoughts should have no bearing on his creating.

 

 

Oh my god, you're so wrong on so many levels it's really almost heartbreaking.

 

Simply not agreeing with someone would be if Manara was allowed to release his cover artwork as originally intended via the medium he originally intended and then having him and his art be addressed, commented on, and criticized by the masses.

 

ALL art is subjected to be 'addressed, commented on, and criticized by the masses.' And Manara wasn't self-publishing, so he has minimal control over if it's released as he chooses. And he probably long ago became desensitized to what anyone had to say about his art - he's been criticized for years. Real artists understand that.

 

Disagreeing with said artwork and then posturing oneself in a way to deprive other people of the ability to consume said artwork IS censorship.

 

No one has deprived anyone of consuming the art... it's still available on the internet to view or whatever whenever you choose. In fact, now it's FREE. It was a part of a 1:25 or 1:50 variant which very few people would've had a chance to own anyway. Now it's more infamous and probably 'viewed' (or whatever) by a higher number of people than ever.

 

And who 'postured' themselves into blocking it from publication? The critics? Marvel?

 

Manara got paid still, he doesn't give a turd either way. It's only the people who are defending the right to publish the 'Manara Spider Woman spread booty pose cover' for 'consumption' (or whatever), that really seem to care.

 

To Marvel and Manara it was just another day.

 

You don't speak for me and you don't speak for the artist, your thoughts should have no bearing on his creating.

 

This is where you're most wrong.

 

No one infringed upon his right to CREATE. He created. The piece exists.

 

He has the right to create. He did. No one stopped him.

 

He's NOT guaranteed a right to publish it wherever he chooses.

 

Sorry. Doesn't work that way.

 

No one's really infringed upon his right to publish the work if HE chooses to do it HIMSELF. Marvel decided THEY didn't want to publish it.

 

HE can still put that piece in a Manara pin-up book or sketch book or whatever. That's part of the deal with Marvel.

 

So really it's NOT censored. You can see it on the internet, and possibly even see it in a Manara collection at some point.

 

The 'Manara Spider Woman spread booty pose cover' still has a chance!!!

 

[Prince Namor]

 

Now SHE can talk to me about censorship (and anything else she'd like ) anytime she wants.

[FutureFlash]

The Merriam-Webster definition of Censorship:

 

Full Definition of CENSORSHIP

1

a : the institution, system, or practice of censoring

b : the actions or practices of censors; especially : censorial control exercised repressively

 

2

: the office, power, or term of a Roman censor

 

3

: exclusion from consciousness by the psychic censor

 

Merriam-Webster Definition Link

 

The first entry is the one that applies to this discussion, so yes it is possible to censor by public shaming, it doesn't have to be a government doing the censoring.

 

I'm not saying that America is at the level of censorship that much more repressive countries have, but say it doesn't exist here, you are not being honest.

 

Take a few weeks ago about a Game of Thrones episode that had certain groups in an tizzy and were calling for a boycott of the show. Have they not been watching GoT for the last five years, and now they get offended. That is an attempt at public shaming censoring. Not giving the specifics for spoilers.

 

Also college campuses all over the country have adopted speech codes, how is that not censorship?

 

Bottom line is, a free country that embraces liberty, the government shouldn't be the arbitrators of what is proper speech/art and what is not. If you don't agree with a group or persons views, then don't associate with them and move on. You don't need the government telling you that.

 

[Prince Namor]

The Merriam-Webster definition of Censorship:

 

Full Definition of CENSORSHIP

1

a : the institution, system, or practice of censoring

b : the actions or practices of censors; especially : censorial control exercised repressively

 

2

: the office, power, or term of a Roman censor

 

3

: exclusion from consciousness by the psychic censor

 

Merriam-Webster Definition Link

 

The first entry is the one that applies to this discussion, so yes it is possible to censor by public shaming, it doesn't have to be a government doing the censoring.

 

But who got censored? Manara created his art. He didn't get censored. In fact, HE'S still free to publish if he chooses.

 

I'm not saying that America is at the level of censorship that much more repressive countries have, but say it doesn't exist here, you are not being honest.

 

It exists, but not in the way most here think.

 

Take a few weeks ago about a Game of Thrones episode that had certain groups in an tizzy and were calling for a boycott of the show. Have they not been watching GoT for the last five years, and now they get offended. That is an attempt at public shaming censoring. Not giving the specifics for spoilers.

 

But... it DIDN'T get censored. Why not? If the offended group made their case, why didn't it work this time?

 

And... really... we're calling people giving their opinion's on a TV show, 'public shaming?' Seriously?

Don't the actors working on that show pay the people who walk their cat once a week more money than most of the people blogging about it?

Seriously... we want to censor the people giving their opinion' about a TV show - in the name of censorship - to protect the rights of a corporation....?

WTF?

 

Also college campuses all over the country have adopted speech codes, how is that not censorship?

 

Oh you mean, where you can't sing fraternity songs with racial slurs?

 

Here's how that's NOT censorship.

 

See... you want your fraternity to be on our campus... where we have certain guidelines, then YOU have to follow those guidelines.

 

That fraternity is free to go be it's own thing off campus and not a part of that college community, the same as the Klu Klux Klan is out there operating still.

 

They just don't get to set up shop wherever they want.

 

Why is that so hard for people to understand.

 

It's not against the law to sell Adult DVD's in America. A church however can tell you you're not allowed to sell them on their property.

 

That's not censorship.

 

Bottom line is, a free country that embraces liberty, the government shouldn't be the arbitrators of what is proper speech/art and what is not. If you don't agree with a group or persons views, then don't associate with them and move on. You don't need the government telling you that.

 

I seriously have no idea what that means.

 

I, for the life of me, have no one that I can think of that the government has ever told me I can and can not associate myself with, nor what is proper as far as speech/art.

 

I just have no idea what anyone is talking about when they say that.

 

No one is forcing me to say or do anything. Why does everyone else feel like that?

 

I feel no oppression whatsoever.

[FutureFlash]

The Merriam-Webster definition of Censorship:

 

Full Definition of CENSORSHIP

1

a : the institution, system, or practice of censoring

b : the actions or practices of censors; especially : censorial control exercised repressively

 

2

: the office, power, or term of a Roman censor

 

3

: exclusion from consciousness by the psychic censor

 

Merriam-Webster Definition Link

 

The first entry is the one that applies to this discussion, so yes it is possible to censor by public shaming, it doesn't have to be a government doing the censoring.

 

But who got censored? Manara created his art. He didn't get censored. In fact, HE'S still free to publish if he chooses.

 

I'm not saying that America is at the level of censorship that much more repressive countries have, but say it doesn't exist here, you are not being honest.

 

It exists, but not in the way most here think.

 

Take a few weeks ago about a Game of Thrones episode that had certain groups in an tizzy and were calling for a boycott of the show. Have they not been watching GoT for the last five years, and now they get offended. That is an attempt at public shaming censoring. Not giving the specifics for spoilers.

 

But... it DIDN'T get censored. Why not? If the offended group made their case, why didn't it work this time?

 

And... really... we're calling people giving their opinion's on a TV show, 'public shaming?' Seriously?

Don't the actors working on that show pay the people who walk their cat once a week more money than most of the people blogging about it?

Seriously... we want to censor the people giving their opinion' about a TV show - in the name of censorship - to protect the rights of a corporation....?

WTF?

 

Also college campuses all over the country have adopted speech codes, how is that not censorship?

 

Oh you mean, where you can't sing fraternity songs with racial slurs?

 

Here's how that's NOT censorship.

 

See... you want your fraternity to be on our campus... where we have certain guidelines, then YOU have to follow those guidelines.

 

That fraternity is free to go be it's own thing off campus and not a part of that college community, the same as the Klu Klux Klan is out there operating still.

 

They just don't get to set up shop wherever they want.

 

Why is that so hard for people to understand.

 

It's not against the law to sell Adult DVD's in America. A church however can tell you you're not allowed to sell them on their property.

 

That's not censorship.

 

Bottom line is, a free country that embraces liberty, the government shouldn't be the arbitrators of what is proper speech/art and what is not. If you don't agree with a group or persons views, then don't associate with them and move on. You don't need the government telling you that.

 

I seriously have no idea what that means.

 

I, for the life of me, have no one that I can think of that the government has ever told me I can and can not associate myself with, nor what is proper as far as speech/art.

 

I just have no idea what anyone is talking about when they say that.

 

No one is forcing me to say or do anything. Why does everyone else feel like that?

 

I feel no oppression whatsoever.

 

Way to dial up the rhetoric with a Ku Klux Klan example. Why the hell do you need the college you are attending tell you the Klan are a bunch of pond scum, isn't that obvious? As for the insufficiently_thoughtful_person frat boys incident a few months ago, let the fraternity deal with the matter and the punishment. That is the way it should be. If I said something like that at work, I would face disciplinary action and more than likely be fired. That is well within my employer's rights and yes it is censorship.

 

I was just pointing out censorship can exist even with out the government mandating the censorship. You shouting down people by throwing out words with extremely negative connotations such as Racist, you are in a sense trying to censor that person without fair debate. Nobody said anything remotely racist. People were voicing their concerns about the method of gaining diversity in comics not the end result of having more diversity. To which I say bring on the diversity we need all the people we can get into comics. I think most comic collectors/readers/retailers would agree with that.

Edited June 11, 2015 by FutureFlash

[Jackhartmann]

You think throwing out the words racist or misogynist doesn't cause the weak to sit down and shut up ? You and I have a difference of opinion on what constitutes censorship. Its months later and we both feel the same way. The name calling ? You are trying to make it sound like " If you say ______ then you are a_______ ." But its really not that black and white is it ? People are considerably more complex than the options you've given. Disagreeing with you doesn't make people anything other than someone who happens to see things differently.

 

+1

[Doc McCoy]

 

 

[Doc McCoy]

In case you all missed it, GeeksAreMyPeeps created an entire thread for you all to continue this discussion HERE. Can you please move the discussion over there so we can get this thread back on topic?

[krighton]

That's just diversity, this has mutated into a class on censorship...i just deleted my post so i self censored it so as not to cause more derailing of the thread.

[PCV]

Does anyone know of a thread that discusses the current Previews solicitations from a spec pov? I've been surprised I could not find one. Sorry this is not about censorship.

[Gunnz]

 

Now SHE can talk to me about censorship (and anything else she'd like ) anytime she wants.

 

Your tone is disgusting and disrespectful!

 

...also, I saw her first.

[Lonzilla]

The last 10 pages or so should keep the lurkers away

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

Bottom line is, a free country that embraces liberty, the government shouldn't be the arbitrators of what is proper speech/art and what is not. If you don't agree with a group or persons views, then don't associate with them and move on. You don't need the government telling you that.

 

I seriously have no idea what that means.

He's suggesting that if you don't like something, rather than criticize it, you should just shut up and move on. What's being suggested here is what some have dubbed "self-censorship"; there's irony for you.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

And then closet racists/mysogynists, as well as socially awkward nerds could claim politics and pc police were ruing their sandwich hobby.

 

Ruin no. But negatively affect, most definitely yes. See the recent censorship of cover art for evidence of this.

 

Censored art is art you're not allowed to see.

 

That art wasn't censored. You can see that art anytime you want.

 

Anyone who thinks we live in some kind of censored society is showing just how culturally out touch with the real world they truly are.

 

Just because the original material is still available for consumption elsewhere doesn't mean it wasn't censored in that instance.

 

And when a potential,not even necessarily the intended, audience can effectively demonstrate that their approval is necessary in order for an artist to publish a piece of art, its hard to argue that we are not living in some degree of a censored society.

Artists are free to publish any work that they have the IP rights to publish. That right doesn't protect them from criticism.

 

An artist being silenced because a potential audience finds his work to be distasteful isn't criticism, its censorship.

Please explain how artists are being silenced. To have a company publish your work for hire is not a right. Any artist can easily and freely post their art to their website (within the confines of any agreement they have with the holder of the IP rights, natch).

[PCV]

 

Please explain how artists are being silenced. To have a company publish your work for hire is not a right. Any artist can easily and freely post their art to their website (within the confines of any agreement they have with the holder of the IP rights, natch).

 

This debate has been taken to a new thread on the modern comics board so it can get the focus it deserves, the debate is alive and well over there.

[LarrysComics]

The last 10 pages or so should keep the lurkers away

 

Forever.

[Gunnz]

The last 10 pages or so should keep the lurkers away

 

Forever.

 

Screw the lurkers, I'm giving this thread a break. Comics and debate can heat up without me for a while.

[21Pittsburgh58]

The last 10 pages or so should keep the lurkers away

 

Nice!

[krighton]

No one will ever change their minds about this subject so may as well drop it. The tennis match is getting boring.