Moderns that are heating up on ebay! 71 71

[Jimmy Linguini]

Lmaooo..but you still took the time to read as well as comment. so "nothing going on" is "enough going on" for you to have graced us with your presents . Thank you for noticing..we all feel so special and validated now. what would this forum do without you

 

I imagine there would be more high fives and less low fives

[jaydam45]

..and do you have anything intelligent to add? To make this forum better? A speculation? Some new news?? Nope!!!! Just some ham and egger that has nothing beter to do but person_without_enough_empathy and moan...thanks for the great input !You are a real comic genie!!

[N/A]

Weird.

[Prince Namor]

Yes i am old as well so i understand you perfectly. thing is the hobby and investment side changes with time. some people want what not all others have. 2nd and 3rd prints are not what they were many years ago. They are made when a book sells out at Diamond dist. so rite away they produce another print to compansate for the high demand. Back in the day thete were so many copies produced that damand did not exceed supply. this is why for example. Demon #1..a hot book atm is readily available in anywhere. Never a need for another print.

 

Also, consider this, some publishers plan their reprints. It is part of their marketing strategy so they can declare a book was a sell out. In fact, the interior of those reprints are printed along with the first prints.

 

Why would they plan a 2nd print before it sells out? Do you have an example of this? Any proof?

Around the time of Civil War, Marvel started generating additional sales by cutting back on the number of books printed over the initial orders. That meant that in some cases, a second print was needed to fill reorders. Since they were putting new covers on the reprints, many collectors grabbed those as well, which served to sell more total copies of the book, while minimizing the risk of unsold copies. It's been speculated that some Valiant books were handled this way (maybe some other small publishers as well, as they tend to rely on the sales of variants to sustain the business moreso than the big 2).

 

 

In other words, no proof whatsoever that "publishers plan their reprints (before a book sells out)" and "It is part of their marketing strategy so they can declare a book was a sell out." or that "the interior of those reprints are printed along with the first prints."

[James J]

Weird.

[the authority]

If it looks like a duck...

 

It would seem that Marvel is terrible at predicting demand or they actually are using the 2nd prints to boost sales. Capitalism rocks so no qualms here. It just doesn't make sense to change covers and pay for the additional art other than to sell to the same group of people who bought the 1st printing. Star Wars #1 is on a 7th printing with a butt ugly background relative to the 1st printings. They had as many printings for Ms. Marvel #1 and nearly as many for Edge of Spider-verse. Who miscalculated 6 times ( more than once ) and still has a job ?

 

Not picking a side just pointing out the obvious extra expense for each cover change versus just adding the 2nd print notation ?

 

 

 

[cbalroman]

Weird.

[bababooey]

Yes i am old as well so i understand you perfectly. thing is the hobby and investment side changes with time. some people want what not all others have. 2nd and 3rd prints are not what they were many years ago. They are made when a book sells out at Diamond dist. so rite away they produce another print to compansate for the high demand. Back in the day thete were so many copies produced that damand did not exceed supply. this is why for example. Demon #1..a hot book atm is readily available in anywhere. Never a need for another print.

 

Also, consider this, some publishers plan their reprints. It is part of their marketing strategy so they can declare a book was a sell out. In fact, the interior of those reprints are printed along with the first prints.

 

Why would they plan a 2nd print before it sells out? Do you have an example of this? Any proof?

Around the time of Civil War, Marvel started generating additional sales by cutting back on the number of books printed over the initial orders. That meant that in some cases, a second print was needed to fill reorders. Since they were putting new covers on the reprints, many collectors grabbed those as well, which served to sell more total copies of the book, while minimizing the risk of unsold copies. It's been speculated that some Valiant books were handled this way (maybe some other small publishers as well, as they tend to rely on the sales of variants to sustain the business moreso than the big 2).

 

 

In other words, no proof whatsoever that "publishers plan their reprints (before a book sells out)" and "It is part of their marketing strategy so they can declare a book was a sell out." or that "the interior of those reprints are printed along with the first prints."

I'm pretty sure Marvel was planning to finish spelling out O.M.I.T with the second print covers for ASM - One Moment in Time, of course the 'plan' never panned out. I'm pretty sure there was something written up on it but I can't be bothered to look - I did verify that the second print for 638 was on the stands before 641 - a/k/a the never to be seen second print "T" issue.

 

 

[Kyle R.]

Heaveno, nothing really of note happening this week.

 

Some Niobe self speculation nonsense talk but aside from that, nothing new to report.

 

That is my summary of the last 20 pages. You're welcome.

 

Soooooooooooo insightful you are......

Edited November 6, 2015 by Candletric

[rjrjr]

interesting. but do they know how to differentiate those oldies? they don't say it on them, do they?

 

i guess there is also the blue star cap 103, which i just learned about here

 

The Marvel Comics #1s have different dates on them. I'm not sure about the Superman #1s. We might need to ask that question in the Golden Age forum.

[rjrjr]

Again..if you knrw your facts correctly snd checked the numbers. there are no 1 million sold books since Spawn 1 and spider-man 1 torment befor that..oh and jim lee xmen 1.,, sll grossly overprinted snd never sold out..not once.

 

There was this book called Star Wars #1 that sold over a million copies just this year...

[Doktor]

If it looks like a duck...

 

It would seem that Marvel is terrible at predicting demand or they actually are using the 2nd prints to boost sales. Capitalism rocks so no qualms here. It just doesn't make sense to change covers and pay for the additional art other than to sell to the same group of people who bought the 1st printing. Star Wars #1 is on a 7th printing with a butt ugly background relative to the 1st printings. They had as many printings for Ms. Marvel #1 and nearly as many for Edge of Spider-verse. Who miscalculated 6 times ( more than once ) and still has a job ?

 

Not picking a side just pointing out the obvious extra expense for each cover change versus just adding the 2nd print notation ?

 

 

 

I don't think Marvel is under-estimating demand so much as retailers are, since the retailer orders are a significant portion of what Marvel generates their print numbers based on. So assuming someone at Marvel is wrong X-number of times on their estimates for sales is a little presumptuous.

 

I'm pretty certain that the process goes somewhat like this:

 

1. Marvel solicits but has a certain # of copies in mind that they've contracted with the printer with a +/- X% wiggle room for their planned overprint.

2. Retailers place orders by final cut-off date

3. Marvel sends final print orders to the printer with a Y% overprint (which is something that they stopped doing in the early 00's when they were broke but have since switched back to doing with regularity)

4. If a book gets "heat" prior to actually shipping or the week of shipping/right after, Marvel announces sell-out & sends a Z% (of the original 1st print order) re-order to the printer for a 2nd printing because they know/assume that the retailers will place re-orders for those remaining overprint copies of the 1st print. They may or may not supply variant artwork for this.

5. Repeat the process if the 2nd print has heat too (either from flippers, retailers, social media or whatever) and as it's obviously a significantly smaller % of printing of the original print-run and thus easier to make happen.

 

So the necessity of multiple printings has a lot to do with release/pre-release buzz as well as Marvel's estimates & the estimates of retailers, since Marvel (and DC) use those order #'s to determine their print runs. Someone at the publisher might decide to increase or decrease the % of overprinting based on their gut feeling or their models or pre-release buzz, but they generally use the final order cut-off #'s as the basis for their print orders. It's why the orders are due months before the book actually hits shelves.

[Prince Namor]

If it looks like a duck...

 

It would seem that Marvel is terrible at predicting demand or they actually are using the 2nd prints to boost sales. Capitalism rocks so no qualms here. It just doesn't make sense to change covers and pay for the additional art other than to sell to the same group of people who bought the 1st printing. Star Wars #1 is on a 7th printing with a butt ugly background relative to the 1st printings. They had as many printings for Ms. Marvel #1 and nearly as many for Edge of Spider-verse. Who miscalculated 6 times ( more than once ) and still has a job ?

 

Not picking a side just pointing out the obvious extra expense for each cover change versus just adding the 2nd print notation ?

 

Marvel sells out at distribution on almost all of their books.

But the difference between Hulk #14 selling out at distribution and Star Wars #3 selling out at distribution is that demand is still there for Star Wars #3 due to under ordering by the RETAILERS combined with greater demand by the public.

If retailers order more - Marvel prints more.

It's really that simple. There's no nerfarious plan to make a 2nd print and manipulate the market into thinking something is hotter than it is. Star Wars #3 (as an example) DID sell out at RETAIL in many markets, and demand dictated that another print was needed.

If it had sold out at distribution, but a ton of it was still available on the retail level (i.e. no demand), they wouldn't have printed another run.

In other words: additional printings are primarily based upon demand after sell through at the retail level, which they would obviously have no idea of when actually printing the book.

Marvel would PREFER that retailers (somehow) know the amount of copies they need over a 12 month period for every book they publish - but most retailers order for what they need in a much, much smaller window than that.

In the Direct Market, set up to the benefit of the publishers, they publish close to the vest on most everything - based upon what retailers order.

And Marvel's additional art for the Star Wars books has been a change of background color or a color overlay. No big added expense there.

The one big publisher that over publishes - DC Comics - was down heavily this year.

Marvel chose a business model that is more cost efficient, not as a way to manipulate the market.

That occurs in advertising and promotion, not publishing.

[rjrjr]

Yes i am old as well so i understand you perfectly. thing is the hobby and investment side changes with time. some people want what not all others have. 2nd and 3rd prints are not what they were many years ago. They are made when a book sells out at Diamond dist. so rite away they produce another print to compansate for the high demand. Back in the day thete were so many copies produced that damand did not exceed supply. this is why for example. Demon #1..a hot book atm is readily available in anywhere. Never a need for another print.

 

Also, consider this, some publishers plan their reprints. It is part of their marketing strategy so they can declare a book was a sell out. In fact, the interior of those reprints are printed along with the first prints.

 

Why would they plan a 2nd print before it sells out? Do you have an example of this? Any proof?

Around the time of Civil War, Marvel started generating additional sales by cutting back on the number of books printed over the initial orders. That meant that in some cases, a second print was needed to fill reorders. Since they were putting new covers on the reprints, many collectors grabbed those as well, which served to sell more total copies of the book, while minimizing the risk of unsold copies. It's been speculated that some Valiant books were handled this way (maybe some other small publishers as well, as they tend to rely on the sales of variants to sustain the business moreso than the big 2).

 

 

In other words, no proof whatsoever that "publishers plan their reprints (before a book sells out)" and "It is part of their marketing strategy so they can declare a book was a sell out." or that "the interior of those reprints are printed along with the first prints."

 

 

Now I know this is weak, but here is a blog from Rich Johnston that mentions this practice:

 

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/02/23/prints-charming-spider-gwen-silk-and-spider-woman-all-get-multiple-variants/

 

I believe he used that same disclaimer on several blogs under the "Prints Charming" label.

 

I'm still digging to see if I can find a more reputable source for this information. If I recall, the first time I read it might have been on ICv2 but it was definitely not an article I read in the past year. And I've seen it mentioned several times over the past few years. One place I know I heard it before was on the Valiant Fans site. I'll keep digging.

Edited November 6, 2015 by rjrjr

[jsilverjanet]

Heaveno, nothing really of note happening this week.

 

Some Niobe self speculation nonsense talk but aside from that, nothing new to report.

 

That is my summary of the last 20 pages. You're welcome.

 

Soooooooooooo insightful you are......

 

[jcjames]

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=321912880077&alt=web

 

 

So cgc is calling that book her "1st app" maybe her previous cover app will settle down and the book on link hold value?

 

Who was that dressed as her on the cover of Deadpool's Secret Secret Wars titled Gwenpool ?

 

 

Why, it's "Gwen Stacy" of course!

 

CGC says it - and that settles it.

 

[rjrjr]

Yes i am old as well so i understand you perfectly. thing is the hobby and investment side changes with time. some people want what not all others have. 2nd and 3rd prints are not what they were many years ago. They are made when a book sells out at Diamond dist. so rite away they produce another print to compansate for the high demand. Back in the day thete were so many copies produced that damand did not exceed supply. this is why for example. Demon #1..a hot book atm is readily available in anywhere. Never a need for another print.

 

Also, consider this, some publishers plan their reprints. It is part of their marketing strategy so they can declare a book was a sell out. In fact, the interior of those reprints are printed along with the first prints.

 

Why would they plan a 2nd print before it sells out? Do you have an example of this? Any proof?

Around the time of Civil War, Marvel started generating additional sales by cutting back on the number of books printed over the initial orders. That meant that in some cases, a second print was needed to fill reorders. Since they were putting new covers on the reprints, many collectors grabbed those as well, which served to sell more total copies of the book, while minimizing the risk of unsold copies. It's been speculated that some Valiant books were handled this way (maybe some other small publishers as well, as they tend to rely on the sales of variants to sustain the business moreso than the big 2).

 

 

In other words, no proof whatsoever that "publishers plan their reprints (before a book sells out)" and "It is part of their marketing strategy so they can declare a book was a sell out." or that "the interior of those reprints are printed along with the first prints."

 

 

Now I know this is weak, but here is a blog from Rich Johnston that mentions this practice:

 

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/02/23/prints-charming-spider-gwen-silk-and-spider-woman-all-get-multiple-variants/

 

I believe he used that same disclaimer on several blogs under the "Prints Charming" label.

 

I'm still digging to see if I can find a more reputable source for this information. If I recall, the first time I read it might have been on ICv2 but it was definitely not an article I read in the past year. And I've seen it mentioned several times over the past few years. One place I know I heard it before was on the Valiant Fans site. I'll keep digging.

 

An interesting discussion about this very same topic from back in 2007, but still not proof:

 

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/08/30/how-do-new-printings-of-comics-make-sense/

[the authority]

I can see what both of you are saying and in the case of Star Wars, it makes good sense. I also understand the color change cost would be negligible. The cover changes on books like Ms. Marvel and later printings of books like Squirrel Girl seem more like marketing plans than customer/retailer demand. My perception is that there would be no reason to change the covers at all if new readers are the people they're trying to sell these to but I do appreciate what you've stated about the retailer's input in the equation.

[Jaydogrules]

If it looks like a duck...

 

It would seem that Marvel is terrible at predicting demand or they actually are using the 2nd prints to boost sales. Capitalism rocks so no qualms here. It just doesn't make sense to change covers and pay for the additional art other than to sell to the same group of people who bought the 1st printing. Star Wars #1 is on a 7th printing with a butt ugly background relative to the 1st printings. They had as many printings for Ms. Marvel #1 and nearly as many for Edge of Spider-verse. Who miscalculated 6 times ( more than once ) and still has a job ?

 

Not picking a side just pointing out the obvious extra expense for each cover change versus just adding the 2nd print notation ?

 

Marvel sells out at distribution on almost all of their books.

But the difference between Hulk #14 selling out at distribution and Star Wars #3 selling out at distribution is that demand is still there for Star Wars #3 due to under ordering by the RETAILERS combined with greater demand by the public.

If retailers order more - Marvel prints more.

It's really that simple. There's no nerfarious plan to make a 2nd print and manipulate the market into thinking something is hotter than it is. Star Wars #3 (as an example) DID sell out at RETAIL in many markets, and demand dictated that another print was needed.

If it had sold out at distribution, but a ton of it was still available on the retail level (i.e. no demand), they wouldn't have printed another run.

In other words: additional printings are primarily based upon demand after sell through at the retail level, which they would obviously have no idea of when actually printing the book.

Marvel would PREFER that retailers (somehow) know the amount of copies they need over a 12 month period for every book they publish - but most retailers order for what they need in a much, much smaller window than that.

In the Direct Market, set up to the benefit of the publishers, they publish close to the vest on most everything - based upon what retailers order.

And Marvel's additional art for the Star Wars books has been a change of background color or a color overlay. No big added expense there.

The one big publisher that over publishes - DC Comics - was down heavily this year.

Marvel chose a business model that is more cost efficient, not as a way to manipulate the market.

That occurs in advertising and promotion, not publishing.

 

Where was this post in the ASM 667 Dell'Otto thread?

 

-J.

[Awax]

Heaveno, nothing really of note happening this week.

 

Some Niobe self speculation nonsense talk but aside from that, nothing new to report.

 

That is my summary of the last 20 pages. You're welcome.

 

Soooooooooooo insightful you are......

 

 

I already humped that one before the change