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Moderns that are heating up on ebay!
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Started by thirdgreenham,

63,839 posts in this topic

Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted
I can see what both of you are saying and in the case of Star Wars, it makes good sense. I also understand the color change cost would be negligible. The cover changes on books like Ms. Marvel and later printings of books like Squirrel Girl seem more like marketing plans than customer/retailer demand. My perception is that there would be no reason to change the covers at all if new readers are the people they're trying to sell these to but I do appreciate what you've stated about the retailer's input in the equation. (thumbs u

 

In both instances those books were extremely underordered or overlooked, and as a slight demand grew later (and Marvel wanted to continue to promote the characters), Marvel made them available again.

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted
If it looks like a duck...

 

It would seem that Marvel is terrible at predicting demand or they actually are using the 2nd prints to boost sales. Capitalism rocks so no qualms here. It just doesn't make sense to change covers and pay for the additional art other than to sell to the same group of people who bought the 1st printing. Star Wars #1 is on a 7th printing with a butt ugly background relative to the 1st printings. They had as many printings for Ms. Marvel #1 and nearly as many for Edge of Spider-verse. Who miscalculated 6 times ( more than once ) and still has a job ? lol

 

Not picking a side just pointing out the obvious extra expense for each cover change versus just adding the 2nd print notation ? 2c

 

Marvel sells out at distribution on almost all of their books.

But the difference between Hulk #14 selling out at distribution and Star Wars #3 selling out at distribution is that demand is still there for Star Wars #3 due to under ordering by the RETAILERS combined with greater demand by the public.

If retailers order more - Marvel prints more.

It's really that simple. There's no nerfarious plan to make a 2nd print and manipulate the market into thinking something is hotter than it is. Star Wars #3 (as an example) DID sell out at RETAIL in many markets, and demand dictated that another print was needed.

If it had sold out at distribution, but a ton of it was still available on the retail level (i.e. no demand), they wouldn't have printed another run.

In other words: additional printings are primarily based upon demand after sell through at the retail level, which they would obviously have no idea of when actually printing the book.

Marvel would PREFER that retailers (somehow) know the amount of copies they need over a 12 month period for every book they publish - but most retailers order for what they need in a much, much smaller window than that.

In the Direct Market, set up to the benefit of the publishers, they publish close to the vest on most everything - based upon what retailers order.

And Marvel's additional art for the Star Wars books has been a change of background color or a color overlay. No big added expense there.

The one big publisher that over publishes - DC Comics - was down heavily this year.

Marvel chose a business model that is more cost efficient, not as a way to manipulate the market.

That occurs in advertising and promotion, not publishing.

 

Where was this post in the ASM 667 Dell'Otto thread? lol:baiting:

 

-J.

 

That actually works against your argument as ASM 667 was ordered at a quantity consistent with the monthly median.

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted
Yes i am old as well so i understand you perfectly. thing is the hobby and investment side changes with time. some people want what not all others have. 2nd and 3rd prints are not what they were many years ago. They are made when a book sells out at Diamond dist. so rite away they produce another print to compansate for the high demand. Back in the day thete were so many copies produced that damand did not exceed supply. this is why for example. Demon #1..a hot book atm is readily available in anywhere. Never a need for another print.

 

Also, consider this, some publishers plan their reprints. It is part of their marketing strategy so they can declare a book was a sell out. In fact, the interior of those reprints are printed along with the first prints.

 

Why would they plan a 2nd print before it sells out? Do you have an example of this? Any proof?

Around the time of Civil War, Marvel started generating additional sales by cutting back on the number of books printed over the initial orders. That meant that in some cases, a second print was needed to fill reorders. Since they were putting new covers on the reprints, many collectors grabbed those as well, which served to sell more total copies of the book, while minimizing the risk of unsold copies. It's been speculated that some Valiant books were handled this way (maybe some other small publishers as well, as they tend to rely on the sales of variants to sustain the business moreso than the big 2).

 

 

In other words, no proof whatsoever that "publishers plan their reprints (before a book sells out)" and "It is part of their marketing strategy so they can declare a book was a sell out." or that "the interior of those reprints are printed along with the first prints."

 

 

Now I know this is weak, but here is a blog from Rich Johnston that mentions this practice:

 

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/02/23/prints-charming-spider-gwen-silk-and-spider-woman-all-get-multiple-variants/

 

I believe he used that same disclaimer on several blogs under the "Prints Charming" label.

 

I'm still digging to see if I can find a more reputable source for this information. If I recall, the first time I read it might have been on ICv2 but it was definitely not an article I read in the past year. And I've seen it mentioned several times over the past few years. One place I know I heard it before was on the Valiant Fans site. I'll keep digging.

 

So he's saying that Marvel, who already prints at a cost efficient ratio equal to that of a small cash strapped publisher is setting aside copies without the covers, knowing that they'll need a second print to throw a new cover on?

 

Why? What is the point of that? Where is the proof of that?

 

Not only does it seem unnecessary, it's unclear how this would even benefit them, and then he offers absolutely no proof.

 

Internet Journalism at its finest.

 

 

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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

Posted
Posted
If it looks like a duck...

 

It would seem that Marvel is terrible at predicting demand or they actually are using the 2nd prints to boost sales. Capitalism rocks so no qualms here. It just doesn't make sense to change covers and pay for the additional art other than to sell to the same group of people who bought the 1st printing. Star Wars #1 is on a 7th printing with a butt ugly background relative to the 1st printings. They had as many printings for Ms. Marvel #1 and nearly as many for Edge of Spider-verse. Who miscalculated 6 times ( more than once ) and still has a job ? lol

 

Not picking a side just pointing out the obvious extra expense for each cover change versus just adding the 2nd print notation ? 2c

 

Marvel sells out at distribution on almost all of their books.

But the difference between Hulk #14 selling out at distribution and Star Wars #3 selling out at distribution is that demand is still there for Star Wars #3 due to under ordering by the RETAILERS combined with greater demand by the public.

If retailers order more - Marvel prints more.

It's really that simple. There's no nerfarious plan to make a 2nd print and manipulate the market into thinking something is hotter than it is. Star Wars #3 (as an example) DID sell out at RETAIL in many markets, and demand dictated that another print was needed.

If it had sold out at distribution, but a ton of it was still available on the retail level (i.e. no demand), they wouldn't have printed another run.

In other words: additional printings are primarily based upon demand after sell through at the retail level, which they would obviously have no idea of when actually printing the book.

Marvel would PREFER that retailers (somehow) know the amount of copies they need over a 12 month period for every book they publish - but most retailers order for what they need in a much, much smaller window than that.

In the Direct Market, set up to the benefit of the publishers, they publish close to the vest on most everything - based upon what retailers order.

And Marvel's additional art for the Star Wars books has been a change of background color or a color overlay. No big added expense there.

The one big publisher that over publishes - DC Comics - was down heavily this year.

Marvel chose a business model that is more cost efficient, not as a way to manipulate the market.

That occurs in advertising and promotion, not publishing.

 

Where was this post in the ASM 667 Dell'Otto thread? lol:baiting:

 

-J.

 

That actually works against your argument as ASM 667 was ordered at a quantity consistent with the monthly median.

 

lol We just don't know which covers.

 

But we know which one we don't see. ;)

 

-J.

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted

And, as I've stated in the past, Marvel doesn't care about sales by flippers or see that as a 'positive' - they see it for what it is - lost sales for THEM. They have ALWAYS, for as long as I can remember, taught retailers to basically ignore the secondary market and back issue market and make their money on new comics.

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted
If it looks like a duck...

 

It would seem that Marvel is terrible at predicting demand or they actually are using the 2nd prints to boost sales. Capitalism rocks so no qualms here. It just doesn't make sense to change covers and pay for the additional art other than to sell to the same group of people who bought the 1st printing. Star Wars #1 is on a 7th printing with a butt ugly background relative to the 1st printings. They had as many printings for Ms. Marvel #1 and nearly as many for Edge of Spider-verse. Who miscalculated 6 times ( more than once ) and still has a job ? lol

 

Not picking a side just pointing out the obvious extra expense for each cover change versus just adding the 2nd print notation ? 2c

 

Marvel sells out at distribution on almost all of their books.

But the difference between Hulk #14 selling out at distribution and Star Wars #3 selling out at distribution is that demand is still there for Star Wars #3 due to under ordering by the RETAILERS combined with greater demand by the public.

If retailers order more - Marvel prints more.

It's really that simple. There's no nerfarious plan to make a 2nd print and manipulate the market into thinking something is hotter than it is. Star Wars #3 (as an example) DID sell out at RETAIL in many markets, and demand dictated that another print was needed.

If it had sold out at distribution, but a ton of it was still available on the retail level (i.e. no demand), they wouldn't have printed another run.

In other words: additional printings are primarily based upon demand after sell through at the retail level, which they would obviously have no idea of when actually printing the book.

Marvel would PREFER that retailers (somehow) know the amount of copies they need over a 12 month period for every book they publish - but most retailers order for what they need in a much, much smaller window than that.

In the Direct Market, set up to the benefit of the publishers, they publish close to the vest on most everything - based upon what retailers order.

And Marvel's additional art for the Star Wars books has been a change of background color or a color overlay. No big added expense there.

The one big publisher that over publishes - DC Comics - was down heavily this year.

Marvel chose a business model that is more cost efficient, not as a way to manipulate the market.

That occurs in advertising and promotion, not publishing.

 

Where was this post in the ASM 667 Dell'Otto thread? lol:baiting:

 

-J.

 

That actually works against your argument as ASM 667 was ordered at a quantity consistent with the monthly median.

 

lol We just don't know which covers.

 

But we know which one we don't see. ;)

 

-J.

 

Correct. We just don't know why.

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songsaboutclouds

songsaboutclouds

Posted
Posted
Heaveno, nothing really of note happening this week.

 

Some Niobe self speculation nonsense talk but aside from that, nothing new to report.

 

That is my summary of the last 20 pages. You're welcome.

 

Jimmy, you are a legend sir & I thank you.

I looked on here at the 111 new posts and thought

"Ugh! I wish someone would summarise every 20 pages or so so I

don't have to wade through all this nothing"

 

(worship)

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songsaboutclouds

songsaboutclouds

Posted
Posted
If it looks like a duck...

 

It would seem that Marvel is terrible at predicting demand or they actually are using the 2nd prints to boost sales. Capitalism rocks so no qualms here. It just doesn't make sense to change covers and pay for the additional art other than to sell to the same group of people who bought the 1st printing. Star Wars #1 is on a 7th printing with a butt ugly background relative to the 1st printings. They had as many printings for Ms. Marvel #1 and nearly as many for Edge of Spider-verse. Who miscalculated 6 times ( more than once ) and still has a job ? lol

 

Not picking a side just pointing out the obvious extra expense for each cover change versus just adding the 2nd print notation ? 2c

 

Marvel sells out at distribution on almost all of their books.

But the difference between Hulk #14 selling out at distribution and Star Wars #3 selling out at distribution is that demand is still there for Star Wars #3 due to under ordering by the RETAILERS combined with greater demand by the public.

If retailers order more - Marvel prints more.

It's really that simple. There's no nerfarious plan to make a 2nd print and manipulate the market into thinking something is hotter than it is. Star Wars #3 (as an example) DID sell out at RETAIL in many markets, and demand dictated that another print was needed.

If it had sold out at distribution, but a ton of it was still available on the retail level (i.e. no demand), they wouldn't have printed another run.

In other words: additional printings are primarily based upon demand after sell through at the retail level, which they would obviously have no idea of when actually printing the book.

Marvel would PREFER that retailers (somehow) know the amount of copies they need over a 12 month period for every book they publish - but most retailers order for what they need in a much, much smaller window than that.

In the Direct Market, set up to the benefit of the publishers, they publish close to the vest on most everything - based upon what retailers order.

And Marvel's additional art for the Star Wars books has been a change of background color or a color overlay. No big added expense there.

The one big publisher that over publishes - DC Comics - was down heavily this year.

Marvel chose a business model that is more cost efficient, not as a way to manipulate the market.

That occurs in advertising and promotion, not publishing.

 

 

It's not just one big publisher

Marvel choose to let Diamond clear out their overstock at heavily discounted prices (and they have lots of it),

DC don't, even DCs clearance stuff is not priced to shift

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JasonDaTwit

JasonDaTwit

Posted
Posted
Heaveno, nothing really of note happening this week.

 

Some Niobe self speculation nonsense talk but aside from that, nothing new to report.

 

That is my summary of the last 20 pages. You're welcome.

 

Jimmy, you are a legend sir & I thank you.

I looked on here at the 111 new posts and thought

"Ugh! I wish someone would summarise every 20 pages or so so I

don't have to wade through all this nothing"

 

(worship)

 

TRUE ENOUGH! Remember when this thread was called "Moderns that are heating up on ebay!" and not "I'm Right! No, I'm Right!".

 

As for ebay moderns going crazy bread...

 

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #700 SKYLINE VARIANT SIGNED --

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Spider-man-700-Martin-Skyline-CGC-SS-9-8-signed-Romita-Lee-11-others-/141591543644?hash=item20f7837f5c%3Am%3AmJsw7yni5NMo9qOwlvys9pw&nma=true&si=MVFNrq%252BqiDcj6zJEawLyz6W7xfo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Spider-Man-700-CGC-9-8-SS-X29-Signed-Stan-Lee-Romita-Sr-Plus-27-More-/391120692208?hash=item5b109c23f0:g:8U0AAOSwPhdVNXdw

 

 

HOWARD THE DUCK #1 RON LIM VARIANT

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HOWARD-THE-DUCK-1-Ron-Lim-GWENPOOL-Variant-Marvel-2015-NM-/281847764246?hash=item419f6f9516:g:N-EAAOSwAYtWOcOv

 

 

NEW MUTANTS #98 (9.9)

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-MUTANTS-98-CGC-9-9-MINT-WITH-WHITE-PAGES-/262043304354?hash=item3d02ff81a2:g:6xYAAOSwgNRV8ZOI

 

 

WALKING DEAD #1 (9.9)

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Walking-Dead-1-2003-CGC-9-9-/271974222672?hash=item3f52ed4b50:g:g10AAOSw3ydV5i7T

 

 

The Walking Dead 19 CGC 9.8 Signed SKETCH Tony Moore Danai Gurira Michonne

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Walking-Dead-19-CGC-9-8-Signed-SKETCH-Tony-Moore-Danai-Gurira-Michonne-/291588050827?hash=item43e4008f8b:g:GtoAAOSwcldUZT9L

 

 

FRANK CHO BLANK COVERS

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Teen-Titans-8-2015-DC-SIGNED-Frank-Cho-Original-Sketch-art-Outrage-cover-SS-CGC-/151862505435?hash=item235bb5efdb:g:3bUAAOSw4HVWDygr

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Howard-the-Duck-1-2015-Marvel-Frank-Cho-Original-Sketch-art-Outrage-cover-CGC-/151842965522?hash=item235a8bc812:g:qYgAAOSw37tWCbK0

 

 

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #362 (10)

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Spider-Man-362-GEM-MINT-2nd-Carnage-CGC-10-0-WHITE-Pgs-/311458269013?hash=item48845c0755:g:nYgAAOSwKIpWEKwU

 

 

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awakeintheashes

awakeintheashes

Posted
Posted
..and do you have anything intelligent to add? To make this forum better? A speculation? Some new news?? Nope!!!! Just some ham and egger that has nothing beter to do but person_without_enough_empathy and moan...thanks for the great input !You are a real comic genie!!

Aside from creating new ways to misspell words, have your brought anything to this thread or board?

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted
If it looks like a duck...

 

It would seem that Marvel is terrible at predicting demand or they actually are using the 2nd prints to boost sales. Capitalism rocks so no qualms here. It just doesn't make sense to change covers and pay for the additional art other than to sell to the same group of people who bought the 1st printing. Star Wars #1 is on a 7th printing with a butt ugly background relative to the 1st printings. They had as many printings for Ms. Marvel #1 and nearly as many for Edge of Spider-verse. Who miscalculated 6 times ( more than once ) and still has a job ? lol

 

Not picking a side just pointing out the obvious extra expense for each cover change versus just adding the 2nd print notation ? 2c

 

Marvel sells out at distribution on almost all of their books.

But the difference between Hulk #14 selling out at distribution and Star Wars #3 selling out at distribution is that demand is still there for Star Wars #3 due to under ordering by the RETAILERS combined with greater demand by the public.

If retailers order more - Marvel prints more.

It's really that simple. There's no nerfarious plan to make a 2nd print and manipulate the market into thinking something is hotter than it is. Star Wars #3 (as an example) DID sell out at RETAIL in many markets, and demand dictated that another print was needed.

If it had sold out at distribution, but a ton of it was still available on the retail level (i.e. no demand), they wouldn't have printed another run.

In other words: additional printings are primarily based upon demand after sell through at the retail level, which they would obviously have no idea of when actually printing the book.

Marvel would PREFER that retailers (somehow) know the amount of copies they need over a 12 month period for every book they publish - but most retailers order for what they need in a much, much smaller window than that.

In the Direct Market, set up to the benefit of the publishers, they publish close to the vest on most everything - based upon what retailers order.

And Marvel's additional art for the Star Wars books has been a change of background color or a color overlay. No big added expense there.

The one big publisher that over publishes - DC Comics - was down heavily this year.

Marvel chose a business model that is more cost efficient, not as a way to manipulate the market.

That occurs in advertising and promotion, not publishing.

 

 

It's not just one big publisher

Marvel choose to let Diamond clear out their overstock at heavily discounted prices (and they have lots of it),

DC don't, even DCs clearance stuff is not priced to shift

 

Even if that's what I was talking abut it's not true - DC has clearance sales through Diamond.

 

What I'm talking about is available reorders on current and somewhat current product.

 

I can still order Starfire #3 through Diamond (released 8/12)

Age of Apocalypse #5 which came out three weeks ago is sold out at Diamond.

I can still order Batman back through #41 (which came out in June), but nothing is available of the regular Amazing Spider-man and only Renew Your Vows #5 (on Low) is left.

 

This is common.

 

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Lonzilla

Lonzilla

Posted
Posted

Those Cho "Outrage" anti-SJW sketch covers are brilliant!

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valiantman

valiantman

Posted
Posted
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=321912880077&alt=web

 

 

So cgc is calling that book her "1st app" maybe her previous cover app will settle down and the book on link hold value?

 

And heres the 1st appearance of Venom

 

033.jpg

...but Web of Spider-man #18 has "an arm" that doesn't trigger Spidey-Sense.

...and Web of Spider-man #24 has "an arm in a black costume" that doesn't trigger Spidey-Sense.

...so Web of Spider-man #33 is too late to be a bad argument for the first Venom.

 

We already have two earlier bad arguments from the same title. :kidaround:

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