Ouch - Latest CGC Submission = FAIL....

[thirdgreenham]

If the books are valued at around $100+ in 9.8 and the pre-screeners pulled 10 books.

Out of those 10 books, if 1 or 2 of those would have been given 9.8 it makes up for several mistake submissions.

If those books are pulled, the graders never touch them. You're losing money.

 

 

And you're taking a far more massive hit on the "not 9.8s" being slabbed.

 

Sub 50 books.

 

30 pass, 20 fail (a not untypical result.)

 

Total grading cost (including rejects, assuming 20% discount) = $488

 

And you now have 30 books for which, if you're selling, you'll get the "maximum" amount they're worth on the market (as opposed to 9.6s or less.)

 

Sub 50 books (no pre-screen.)

 

Total grading cost (assuming 20% discount) = $680

 

And you now have slabbed books that weren't worth the cost of the slab.

 

And that doesn't even address the hidden issue of books that could have gone either way. You say 1 or 2 of those that were subbed COULD have gotten 9.8 anyways....and I agree...but now you're arguing nothing but possibilities, with no real way of knowing. This way, you have hard numbers.

 

I'd rather have CGC tell me that some of my books aren't 9.8s according to CGC, rather than have them tell me that, on this particular date, this particular book was a 9.4 according to CGC (but which could have been a 9.8 on another day.)

 

 

 

 

This is the only part that I see as debatable. When I choose not to prescreen I tend to get either my slabbing cost back or within the $4 I would have been charged if they were prescreened. The fixed costs of shipping/duty can be spread over more books and I do often break even on the less than 9.8's. This is not always the case but it really depends on the books and the submitters grading skills. This is a skill I believe one can learn so rather than jumping to prescreening I place the emphasis on learning to grade.

 

If someone reads this thread and blindly assumes prescreening is always the right choice then this would be incorrect.

 

I have excellent grading skills, I imagine.

 

I would never sub without pre-screening.

 

Why?

 

Because I have gotten books graded 9.4 that have then...having had nothing whatsoever done to them in the meantime...graded 9.8.

 

It has very, very little to do with my grading ability, other than not sending in "obviously never going to be 9.8 books."

 

It's just not my opinion that matters. It's CGCs.

 

Until 9.4s sell for $100, 9.6s for $120, and 9.8s for $150, that's not going to change.

 

Wha? Did I catch a mistake? Knot possible.

[RockMyAmadeus]

None of that means prescreening is always financially preferred.

 

I disagree completely.

 

Paying $4 +$13.60 for a 9.8 slab that is worth $200, vs. paying $13.60 for a 9.6 slab that is only worth $30 makes far, far more sense.

 

Doing the same thing when you want a 9.8 label, rather than a 9.6 or less, also makes much more sense.

 

If a person doesn't care, and just wants the book slabbed, then yes, pre-screening makes no sense.

 

Otherwise, it makes the best sense.

[RockMyAmadeus]

If the books are valued at around $100+ in 9.8 and the pre-screeners pulled 10 books.

Out of those 10 books, if 1 or 2 of those would have been given 9.8 it makes up for several mistake submissions.

If those books are pulled, the graders never touch them. You're losing money.

 

 

And you're taking a far more massive hit on the "not 9.8s" being slabbed.

 

Sub 50 books.

 

30 pass, 20 fail (a not untypical result.)

 

Total grading cost (including rejects, assuming 20% discount) = $488

 

And you now have 30 books for which, if you're selling, you'll get the "maximum" amount they're worth on the market (as opposed to 9.6s or less.)

 

Sub 50 books (no pre-screen.)

 

Total grading cost (assuming 20% discount) = $680

 

And you now have slabbed books that weren't worth the cost of the slab.

 

And that doesn't even address the hidden issue of books that could have gone either way. You say 1 or 2 of those that were subbed COULD have gotten 9.8 anyways....and I agree...but now you're arguing nothing but possibilities, with no real way of knowing. This way, you have hard numbers.

 

I'd rather have CGC tell me that some of my books aren't 9.8s according to CGC, rather than have them tell me that, on this particular date, this particular book was a 9.4 according to CGC (but which could have been a 9.8 on another day.)

 

 

 

 

This is the only part that I see as debatable. When I choose not to prescreen I tend to get either my slabbing cost back or within the $4 I would have been charged if they were prescreened. The fixed costs of shipping/duty can be spread over more books and I do often break even on the less than 9.8's. This is not always the case but it really depends on the books and the submitters grading skills. This is a skill I believe one can learn so rather than jumping to prescreening I place the emphasis on learning to grade.

 

If someone reads this thread and blindly assumes prescreening is always the right choice then this would be incorrect.

 

I have excellent grading skills, I imagine.

 

I would never sub without pre-screening.

 

Why?

 

Because I have gotten books graded 9.4 that have then...having had nothing whatsoever done to them in the meantime...graded 9.8.

 

It has very, very little to do with my grading ability, other than not sending in "obviously never going to be 9.8 books."

 

It's just not my opinion that matters. It's CGCs.

 

Until 9.4s sell for $100, 9.6s for $120, and 9.8s for $150, that's not going to change.

 

Wha? Did I catch a mistake? Knot possible.

 

[N/A]

None of that means prescreening is always financially preferred.

 

I disagree completely.

 

Paying $4 +$13.60 for a 9.8 slab that is worth $200, vs. paying $13.60 for a 9.6 slab that is only worth $30 makes far, far more sense.

 

Doing the same thing when you want a 9.8 label, rather than a 9.6 or less, also makes much more sense.

 

If a person doesn't care, and just wants the book slabbed, then yes, pre-screening makes no sense.

 

Otherwise, it makes the best sense.

 

And what if your 9.6 label is on a 9.6 book? Better to take the $4(plus fixed cost) loss than the $10+ profit? No. So what are the chances that the failed prescreens are just overlooked 9.8's and if those overlooked 9.8's were not prescreened would they have passed?

[RockMyAmadeus]

None of that means prescreening is always financially preferred.

 

I disagree completely.

 

Paying $4 +$13.60 for a 9.8 slab that is worth $200, vs. paying $13.60 for a 9.6 slab that is only worth $30 makes far, far more sense.

 

Doing the same thing when you want a 9.8 label, rather than a 9.6 or less, also makes much more sense.

 

If a person doesn't care, and just wants the book slabbed, then yes, pre-screening makes no sense.

 

Otherwise, it makes the best sense.

 

And what if your 9.6 label is on a 9.6 book? Better to take the $4(plus fixed cost) loss than the $10+ profit? No.

 

There's no such thing. Grading between the grades is subjective. What is a "9.6" on one day is a "9.8" (or "9.4") on another.

 

It's always (while the current market dynamics exist) better to take the chance that CGC thinks that book is a 9.8 on that particular day.

 

Because if your "9.6" manages to be a 9.8 to CGC, you've lost a whole lot more than $4 if you sell it for the 9.6 price.

 

I idiotically sold a Cerebus #21 9.6 and X-Men #117 9.6 that were, in my opinion (since I subbed them), 9.8s. With a press, they both would have been unquestionable 9.8s.

 

How much did I give away? Several hundreds. Oops. Won't make that mistake again.

 

So what are the chances that the failed prescreens are just overlooked 9.8's and if those overlooked 9.8's were not prescreened would they have passed?

 

True, and that's the risk you take....but as I said to Dice, that's something that can never be known. And...even if 9.8s are inadvertently rejected, you can resub them. The cost/benefit analysis is in favor of pre-screening.

[N/A]

None of that means prescreening is always financially preferred.

 

I disagree completely.

 

Paying $4 +$13.60 for a 9.8 slab that is worth $200, vs. paying $13.60 for a 9.6 slab that is only worth $30 makes far, far more sense.

 

Doing the same thing when you want a 9.8 label, rather than a 9.6 or less, also makes much more sense.

 

If a person doesn't care, and just wants the book slabbed, then yes, pre-screening makes no sense.

 

Otherwise, it makes the best sense.

 

And what if your 9.6 label is on a 9.6 book? Better to take the $4(plus fixed cost) loss than the $10+ profit? No.

 

There's no such thing. Grading between the grades is subjective. What is a "9.6" on one day is a "9.8" (or "9.4") on another.

 

It's always (while the current market dynamics exist) better to take the chance that CGC thinks that book is a 9.8 on that particular day.

 

Because if your "9.6" manages to be a 9.8 to CGC, you've lost a whole lot more than $4 if you sell it for the 9.6 price.

 

I idiotically sold a Cerebus #21 9.6 and X-Men #117 9.6 that were, in my opinion (since I subbed them), 9.8s. With a press, they both would have been unquestionable 9.8s.

 

How much did I give away? Several hundreds. Oops. Won't make that mistake again.

 

So what are the chances that the failed prescreens are just overlooked 9.8's and if those overlooked 9.8's were not prescreened would they have passed?

 

True, and that's the risk you take....but as I said to Dice, that's something that can never be known. And...even if 9.8s are inadvertently rejected, you can resub them. The cost/benefit analysis is in favor of pre-screening.

 

The cost/benefit analysis you describe does not support $30-50 modern 9.8's which is the example I mentioned previously. Let's say the benefit of the prescreen is directly related to the difference between a 9.6 and 9.8 sale price? So for a $30 book , which I don't sub nearly as much as I used to, but when I do I seem to have no problem selling <9.8 for > $10. In most cases I have no problem selling them for more than $15. In either case the $4 failure plus the associated fixed costs are worse than selling a cheap slab.

 

For me there is the added benefit of reducing my inventory. In most cases i can't even get $1 on failed prescreen $30 9.8 moderns.

[mschmidt]

If a book pre screens at 9.8, is that a rock solid guaranty that it will come back as a 9.8? Seriously curious.

 

No.

 

In my last pre-screen I had one book that looked like it passed - when I finally received the books, that book had been returned as a pre-screen reject.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

If a book pre screens at 9.8, is that a rock solid guaranty that it will come back as a 9.8? Seriously curious.

 

No.

 

In my last pre-screen I had one book that looked like it passed - when I finally received the books, that book had been returned as a pre-screen reject.

Did you wave your fist in anger shouting at the CGC gods? Then send the book to Joey, have it pressed and get the 9.8.

 

I TOTALLY would have done that!

[sckao]

Joeypost was the "service" that I was mentioning earlier.... It adds to the cost obviously but you get the aforementioned second opinion before the pre-screen plus the discount.

 

 

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Joeypost was the "service" that I was mentioning earlier.... It adds to the cost obviously but you get the aforementioned second opinion before the pre-screen plus the discount.

 

Joey pre-screens and presses all my moderns. Never even got a crummy 9.6 back. BUT I only send books that have 0 defects to begin with, and the occasional "maybe this will squeak by after a squish"

 

To the OP. I would contact him. He would have saved you a bundle.

[gaz973]

If I sub a Bats #428, and it gets a 9.6....or 9.4....it's a $20-$30 slab, for which I have paid about $20 for the privelege. If it is rejected, it's $4. It it passes, it's $250.

 

And I have had all sorts of rejects pass the second, and third, and sometimes fourth, time around.

 

This really highlights the strange way the hobby has gone in the high grade CGC end of the market.

[NewWorldOrder]

Pre-screen, pre-screen, pre-screen....

 

I throw absolute drek at the wall to see if it sticks, and amazingly enough, a lot of it does.

 

By the way, the pre-screen fee is $4/reject now. Has been for a while.

 

The last time I subbed onsite (WWLA 2008), I got back 11 9.6s, and two 9.4s along with a swath of 9.8s.

 

Of those 13 "not 9.8s", I cracked them and resubbed them in May-ish of this year...pressed one of the 9.4s, did nothing to the other 12....and got back 11 brand new 9.8s, with 2 rejects.

 

To me, they were 9.8s to begin with (or I wouldn't have subbed them onsite.)

 

And the second batch of graders agreed with me on 11 of the 13.

 

Those 2 rejects have been pressed and resubbed.

 

Those who say pre-screening moderns is dumb clearly aren't modern subbers. If I sub a Bats #428, and it gets a 9.6....or 9.4....it's a $20-$30 slab, for which I have paid about $20 for the privelege. If it is rejected, it's $4. It it passes, it's $250.

 

And I have had all sorts of rejects pass the second, and third, and sometimes fourth, time around.

 

Remember: only ONE person sees the books on a pre-screen, so it's just that one guy's opinion.

 

Pre-screens are for rookies.......

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

Well at least I now know why I got a 9.4 on the ACTION COMICS #1 variant. I subbed the WRONG copy....

 

As soon as I saw it I realized I subbed the wrong one - I remember seeing the corner crease when I looked over my 2 raw copies. I put the wrong copy into the sub pile....

 

Oh well, I guess I can only laugh and move on...

 

Now begins the long road to selling them to recoup my cost....

[Pirate]

i'm sure the modern graders have some good laughs on a daily basis.

[Transplant]

I don't think it's moderns only right now. What I'm hearing is that the pendulum has swung to the ultraconservative grading side again on all tiers.

[red rocks-migration]

I don't think it's moderns only right now. What I'm hearing is that the pendulum has swung to the ultraconservative grading side again on all tiers.

 

Yes this happened to me. I was afraid that they would go ultraconservative after they caught so much flak for upgrading those sparkle cities and those 9.8 spidermans on heritage that they would hammer my submission I had already sent. Everything came back at least 1 step lower than estimated by the experts except a few undeniable books.

 

So the lesson is dont submit anything for another six months...

[seanfingh]

I don't think it's moderns only right now. What I'm hearing is that the pendulum has swung to the ultraconservative grading side again on all tiers.

 

That's what crybabies that can't grade always say.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

 

So the lesson is dont submit anything for another six months...

 

[red rocks-migration]

I don't think it's moderns only right now. What I'm hearing is that the pendulum has swung to the ultraconservative grading side again on all tiers.

 

That's what crybabies that can't grade always say.

 

Usually I would agree with you, but its pretty fair but somethings going on when the guy doing the grading contests at all the conventions is the one uniformly off by at least one step!

[seanfingh]

I don't think it's moderns only right now. What I'm hearing is that the pendulum has swung to the ultraconservative grading side again on all tiers.

 

That's what crybabies that can't grade always say.

 

Usually I would agree with you, but its pretty fair but somethings going on when the guy doing the grading contests at all the conventions is the one uniformly off by at least one step!

 

Tell Nelson to quit drinking his breakfast and he won't be seeing two copies of every book and screwing up. I'm still sticking with crybabyism. (Until, I get some grades that I don't like, then I will be right there with you!)