Comic people on Frank Miller's rant

[TupennyConan]

I was trying to wind-up Gene but he doesn't want to play

 

He's a cool cucumber.

[Comicopolis]

I was trying to wind-up Gene but he doesn't want to play

 

 

Let's just agree to disagree...I really need to get on with my day.

 

When you get the chance you should start a Ripper thread in the WC. I've always been fascinated by the subject and it looks like a few others on here have as well.

 

It would be interesting to hear what you thought about the Patricia Cornwell book.

[Comicopolis]

I was trying to wind-up Gene but he doesn't want to play

 

He's a cool cucumber.

 

Absolutely. (thumbs u

[Theagenes]

Everyone raves about Watchmen, and so do I, but Moore's greatest work is From Hell. It's one of the finest pieces of literature I have ever read, period.

 

+1 Totally agree. Absolutely brilliant.

 

Transplant, meet Straw Man. Straw Man, meet Transplant.

 

Just to be clear, I was agreeing with Rick that From Hell, not Watchmen, is Moore's greatest work---his magnum opus, as I said in another post. That wasn't clear since I quoted that whole section. I certainly would not say that it's the finest work of literature I've ever read. They're aren't any GNs that I would say that about, not even Sandman.

 

I do think it's a great story, though it may be a matter of taste. I am interested in a lot of the themes and subjects he touches on and weaves together in this novel. I also think that the characters are well-developed and interesting. I have a fondness for the seedy underbelly of history, and it doesn't get much better than the East End in the Victorian period.

 

As someone else who has an interest in the historical Whitechapel murders, I can totally understand your abhorrance to any work---fiction or otherwise---that promotes the Royal Conspiracy theory in any of its forms. I get that, believe me. But I think that maybe you've let those feelings prejudice your opinions of the novel as a work of fiction.

[Theagenes]

I was trying to wind-up Gene but he doesn't want to play

 

 

Let's just agree to disagree...I really need to get on with my day.

 

When you get the chance you should start a Ripper thread in the WC. I've always been fascinated by the subject and it looks like a few others on here have as well.

 

It would be interesting to hear what you thought about the Patricia Cornwell book.

 

I will go out on a limb and guess that Gene's opinion is the same as mine. It's garbage. Sickert was a weird dude and seemed to have an obsession with the murders, but at best all Cornwall did was show that maybe---just maybe---Sickert wrote one of the letters that everyone thinks is a hoax. In which case he is guilty of being a hoaxer along with dozens of other people.

[VintageComics]

I have a fondness for the seedy underbelly of history

 

[TupennyConan]

I'll take From Hell under advisement. I really don't care for murder stories.

 

I know for sure that in 2012 I'll be reading the next Fantagraphics Prince Valiant & 2 book Peanuts set.

 

[Chespirito]

I have a fondness for the seedy underbelly of history

 

X 100000000000

[Theagenes]

I'll take From Hell under advisement. I really don't care for murder stories.

 

I know for sure that in 2012 I'll be reading the next Fantagraphics Prince Valiant & 2 book Peanuts set.

 

 

The murder scenes are pretty graphic so it may not be your cup of tea.

 

I just got the fourth volume of PV in the mail the other day.

[Transplant]

Everyone raves about Watchmen, and so do I, but Moore's greatest work is From Hell. It's one of the finest pieces of literature I have ever read, period.

 

+1 Totally agree. Absolutely brilliant.

 

Transplant, meet Straw Man. Straw Man, meet Transplant.

If you say so. Mea culpa, as I guess at least 1 person said it.

[Comicopolis]

I was trying to wind-up Gene but he doesn't want to play

 

 

Let's just agree to disagree...I really need to get on with my day.

 

When you get the chance you should start a Ripper thread in the WC. I've always been fascinated by the subject and it looks like a few others on here have as well.

 

It would be interesting to hear what you thought about the Patricia Cornwell book.

 

I will go out on a limb and guess that Gene's opinion is the same as mine. It's garbage. Sickert was a weird dude and seemed to have an obsession with the murders, but at best all Cornwall did was show that maybe---just maybe---Sickert wrote one of the letters that everyone thinks is a hoax. In which case he is guilty of being a hoaxer along with dozens of other people.

 

I agree totally (thumbs u

[Theagenes]

I was trying to wind-up Gene but he doesn't want to play

 

 

Let's just agree to disagree...I really need to get on with my day.

 

When you get the chance you should start a Ripper thread in the WC. I've always been fascinated by the subject and it looks like a few others on here have as well.

 

It would be interesting to hear what you thought about the Patricia Cornwell book.

 

I will go out on a limb and guess that Gene's opinion is the same as mine. It's garbage. Sickert was a weird dude and seemed to have an obsession with the murders, but at best all Cornwall did was show that maybe---just maybe---Sickert wrote one of the letters that everyone thinks is a hoax. In which case he is guilty of being a hoaxer along with dozens of other people.

 

I agree totally (thumbs u

 

A JtR thread in the WC could be cool though.

[delekkerste]

When you get the chance you should start a Ripper thread in the WC. I've always been fascinated by the subject and it looks like a few others on here have as well.

 

It would be interesting to hear what you thought about the Patricia Cornwell book.

 

I will go out on a limb and guess that Gene's opinion is the same as mine. It's garbage. Sickert was a weird dude and seemed to have an obsession with the murders, but at best all Cornwall did was show that maybe---just maybe---Sickert wrote one of the letters that everyone thinks is a hoax. In which case he is guilty of being a hoaxer along with dozens of other people.

 

I actually thought the book was a fun read, but, ultimately, it's a lot of fanciful, far-fetched speculation and conjecture. It's been some years since I read the book, but if I recall correctly, the only "hard" evidence of any sort was the (partial?) matching fingerprint found on one of the letters and one of Sickert's paintings. Which, as you point out, may just mean that Sickert was a hoaxing letter writer along with many others.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think there is enough evidence out there to conclusively point the finger at any one suspect, though, certainly, some theories are more plausible/credible than others. I rather liked the theory proposed in the recent BBC series Whitechapel, though, again, the fingered suspect from 1888 may just have been someone who was overeager to help the police (intentionally left vague so not to spoil things for those who haven't - but should - go out and see the series; think it's available on demand if you have a good cable provider, and on Netflix).

[Theagenes]

When you get the chance you should start a Ripper thread in the WC. I've always been fascinated by the subject and it looks like a few others on here have as well.

 

It would be interesting to hear what you thought about the Patricia Cornwell book.

 

I will go out on a limb and guess that Gene's opinion is the same as mine. It's garbage. Sickert was a weird dude and seemed to have an obsession with the murders, but at best all Cornwall did was show that maybe---just maybe---Sickert wrote one of the letters that everyone thinks is a hoax. In which case he is guilty of being a hoaxer along with dozens of other people.

 

I actually thought the book was a fun read, but, ultimately, it's a lot of fanciful, far-fetched speculation and conjecture. It's been some years since I read the book, but if I recall correctly, the only "hard" evidence of any sort was the (partial?) matching fingerprint found on one of the letters and one of Sickert's paintings. Which, as you point out, may just mean that Sickert was a hoaxing letter writer along with many others.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think there is enough evidence out there to conclusively point the finger at any one suspect, though, certainly, some theories are more plausible/credible than others. I rather liked the theory proposed in the recent BBC series Whitechapel, though, again, the fingered suspect from 1888 may just have been someone who was overeager to help the police (intentionally left vague so not to spoil things for those who haven't - but should - go out and see the series; think it's available on demand if you have a good cable provider, and on Netflix).

 

Haven't seen it yet, but I'll check it out for sure. If the suspect is who i think it is, from your description, he's interesting character. I completely agree that none of the usual suspects are completely satisfactory, though there are a couple that are intriguing. More than likely it was some no-name East Ender or cattle boat sailer that's never been proposed as a suspect and probably never will be.

[RickL]

Everyone raves about Watchmen, and so do I, but Moore's greatest work is From Hell. It's one of the finest pieces of literature I have ever read, period.

 

+1 Totally agree. Absolutely brilliant.

 

Transplant, meet Straw Man. Straw Man, meet Transplant.

 

 

We should all chip in and send RickL some Dostoyevsky, Camus & Orwell.

I'll have the Camus thanks, but I've got the others and have read them. Orwell quite frequently. The murder scene in Crime and Punishment was a real nail biter. You should check it out. It certainly shares some themes with From Hell. Plus it's a superman story. And then there's the rat face cage in 1984.

 

Everyone raves about Watchmen, and so do I, but Moore's greatest work is From Hell. It's one of the finest pieces of literature I have ever read, period.

 

+1 Totally agree. Absolutely brilliant.

 

Transplant, meet Straw Man. Straw Man, meet Transplant.

If you say so. Mea culpa, as I guess at least 1 person said it.

I said it and would have leapt in and said it again if I wasn't in my bed sleeping soundly. The depth of the social portrait in From Hell transcends anything else I can think of in comics. Only time will tell, but I'd be prepared to bet that From Hell will be read far into the future. Not to mention analysed, dissected and adulated. Not everyone likes Dickens or Lawrence either, me included, but that's not the point.

[TupennyConan]

[Prince Namor]

Interesting reply to Miller's rant on his site.

I'll provide editorial notes to stroke my ego and keep you from getting bored.

 

Dear Frank,

I used to be your biggest fan.

 

You're now dead to me.

 

After reading your blog and suffering through "Holy Terror," I don't ever need to pay money for your entertainment, again.

 

Holy Terror is a MESS. It's sloppy, pedantic (Pay attention kids, 'pedantic' is the new comic geek buzzword apparently), on the nose, silly and confusing. It doesn't make a clear point, at all, which is odd because it was obviously your purposed to make a point, not to tell a good story.

 

Remind me again which regiment you served with? Oh, right, you were drawing cartoons at the age of those Occupy folks you suggest should enlist (AHA! Burn!). Because if there's one thing a soldier can look forward to these days, it's trusting that his/her superiors will send them to do the right thing and really get the job done.

 

Like eliminate Al Quaeda overseas. Good mission. The Marines and Army have done that.

 

Root out sleeper terrorists on American soil. Good idea. The FBI does that, and they do it, well.

 

So how should the rest of us fight terror? Oh, right, by not rocking the boat. Never complaining, just stewing in our anger and writing angry screeds online and in comic books. Gettin' the ol' job done, aren't we, Frank? Thank God we've got you on that wall, because we need you on that wall. (Yeah Frank. Draw Batman and shaddup!)

 

Remember the Frank Miller who donated to groups that supported creator-owned companies? The guy who printed "Give 'em an inch, they'll take a Mile" in big bold letters on the back cover of one of his books? He was talking about CORPORATIONS, not big government. ( )

 

He was protesting corporations that exploit their workers. ( )

 

Remember the Frank Miller that co-founded his own comic publishing company, Legend, and extolled the accomplishment of the Image comics founders who left the big bad Marvel all at the same time? You know, those guys who staged a...let's see, what's the term for it...oh, yeah, a...walkout. ( Wait a minute. That was when Frank was a dirty hippie himself...)

Just walked off their jobs, the lazy ! Gave the finger to that gracious corporation that so generously employed them and thousands of others, to go..."freelance." Yeccch. Just the word itself makes me feel grimy.

 

In short, just to be as clear as propaganda: the young Frank Miller would look at what you've aged into and be sick. (Just to be clear, the young Frank Miller would look at what he's become and say, How the hell did I drink all that hooch in such a short time?)

 

On a personal note, I've been trying to decide for months if I should sell my old Frank Miller comics to make some decent cash or save them to give to my nephew when he's old enough to appreciate them. I'd like to think that he would be as inspired by them as I was, that they might even change the course of his creative ambitions as they did for me. ( )

 

it, I'm going to Ebay right now and unloading these tainted piles of . And I hope you're currently working on some new lunatic book so I can scoff at it as I buy other books by still relevant artists.

 

I wonder if John Byrne has become a right-wing psycho nutjob, too? ( ) Nah, he's Canadian and wayyy too nice a guy for that. ( ya lost me there) But you never know, these days, you never know.

 

 

[Chespirito]

This reminds me of a Mexican movie called "El Bulto." In this movie, the main character is a radical socialist idealist in the 60s who is an avid communist idealist who went into a coma after being hit in the head diring a protest. Anyways, to make a long story short, he woke up 25 years later. He quickly recovered after a few short months. The thing is, he was Disgusted with his friends and kids.. He stayed in the same mindframe...

 

What was interesting... His friends said they "grew up" and "matured".. But in his eyes, they "sold out"

 

 

Makes you wonder about your earlier or later self.

[Prince Namor]

This reminds me of a Mexican movie called "El Bulto." In this movie, the main character is a radical socialist idealist in the 60s who is an avid communist idealist who went into a coma after being hit in the head diring a protest. Anyways, to make a long story short, he woke up 25 years later. He quickly recovered after a few short months. The thing is, he was Disgusted with his friends and kids.. He stayed in the same mindframe...

 

What was interesting... His friends said they "grew up" and "matured".. But in his eyes, they "sold out"

 

 

Makes you wonder about your earlier or later self.

 

Or: It's easy to be a rebel when you're poor.

[Chespirito]

This reminds me of a Mexican movie called "El Bulto." In this movie, the main character is a radical socialist idealist in the 60s who is an avid communist idealist who went into a coma after being hit in the head diring a protest. Anyways, to make a long story short, he woke up 25 years later. He quickly recovered after a few short months. The thing is, he was Disgusted with his friends and kids.. He stayed in the same mindframe...

 

What was interesting... His friends said they "grew up" and "matured".. But in his eyes, they "sold out"

 

 

Makes you wonder about your earlier or later self.

 

Or: It's easy to be a rebel when you're poor.

It's like having a chitty car, you can spray paint it, put mud on it, put stupid asz bumperstckers all over it, and put your beers on the hood when you're chilling on your yard... Fast forward years later when you save up for your new sedan, are you really going to put the "Asz, grass, or gas.. Nobody rides for free" sticker, which you thought was soo cool, on your brand new Lexus?