Comic people on Frank Miller's rant

[TupennyConan]

 

I'll go check amazon for trades.

 

[TupennyConan]

amazon has the Moore & Gaiman Miracleman trades.

 

Can any aficionado suggest which Moore MM trades I need to read to read his complete run on the title, please?

[TupennyConan]

Would it be:

 

Dream of Flying

The Red King Syndrome

Olympus

 

[Chespirito]

More than From Hell? Really... Serious?

[RickL]

Human nature proves time & again that we rush to defend those whose worldviews coincide with our own even in their most toxic moments. We are devotional creatures. Zealots, partisans, fanboys.

 

Your assigning of an audible stress to the written word 'would' so as to endow it with irony and your laboring to find a repudiation in an expression of the impractical guillotine is one such blatantly rigid & prejudicial taffy-pull. The warlock suggested -- that is recommended; that is if given the authority or opportunity 'would' -- 'beheading the bankers.' This qualifier was frustrated remorse, not ironic repudiation: 'it probably wouldn’t do anything practical to alter the situation.' He is an adult, not a schoolboy.

 

He's not the first to suggest society behead the rich. It's an ancient, perennial crime & has been carried through, famously. If we are going to discuss Moore's satanic call for murder, we should initiate that discussion with unreserved condemnation. Don't prop it up. Unless you agree with it. In which case, please say so & let's move on. Be honest about it. Moore was honest about it.

I said what I thought. An interpretation that he was using gallows humour can hardly be confused with an expression of support for the guillotine.

 

You can use verbose (and mildly confusing) outrage to try and set the playing field on how response or discussion may proceed. But I have no interest in your bait, I'll take my own approach. If I don't believe he meant it, then I don't need to condemn it. It is gallows humour, making a point but not advocationg a serious course of action. If I ever decide I need to behead any group in particular, I will let you know. But this is a pretty unlikely development as it's not really my style, which is a little more mellow.

 

My guess is he is a pervert, more than somewhat, more than perhaps.

If you have such loathing for Moore, I have no idea why you might be interested in reading anything he writes or says.

Your assigning of an audible stress to the written word 'would' so as to endow it with irony and your laboring to find a repudiation in an expression of the impractical guillotine is one such blatantly rigid & prejudicial taffy-pull.

You are perhaps aware that human beings draw more meaning from cadence and intonation than from the literal meaning of any words actually spoken. Anyone teaching public speaking will make this point. To interpret the written version of spoken words, which I believe is what we are doing, tone need to be considered. Moore is a distintive speaker and when he speaks he is slow and deliberate and puts a great deal of stress on individual words and this has a dramatic impact on their meaning. But, I don't know how the words were spoken.

 

 

 

[Theagenes]

Okay, I'm a couple issues into Miracleman and now I see what the fuss is about. This is pretty innovative stuff for 1981, presaging Watchmen by several years. Back to reading.

[TupennyConan]

As I have posted in this thread, I consider Moore a great talent, albeit a relic of the '80's. As I have also posted, he could be labelled satanic in the technical sense by those in the religious profession. Recently he has experimented with comic book girl on girl kiddie porn; to which I have also posted an objection in this thread. Now I have further surmised in this thread that he is a pervert. The reason for this supposition being the items just listed as well as his 'beheading' fantasy & still others both discussed & not yet discussed herein.

 

Moore is or has been an important figure in comics during my lifetime. I'm interested in his art. I'm prepared to select what I hope is the most interesting of his art & read it over to see what qualities I may admire & perhaps to learn what qualities I should reject, if any.

 

I condemn his gallows humor, without reservation. It's perverted & obscene.

[TupennyConan]

Okay, I'm a couple issues into Miracleman and now I see what the fuss is about. This is pretty innovative stuff for 1981, presaging Watchmen by several years. Back to reading.

 

 

I wish I were all digital & stuff.

[nocutename]

Okay, I'm a couple issues into Miracleman and now I see what the fuss is about. This is pretty innovative stuff for 1981, presaging Watchmen by several years. Back to reading.

 

 

I wish I were all digital & stuff.

 

It only takes a few minutes to turn your computer into a digital comic reader

[RickL]

Recently he has experimented with comic book girl on girl kiddie porn;

Are you referring to Lost Girls? I never got past issue one, so can't be sure, but I saw no children involved in the goings on. Quite the opposite actually...

 

And I don't think Moore is a Satanist, he doesn't worship Satan or subscribe to any theory in which he has to commit evil. He sees art, whether painting, music or literature, as magic because it can transform a person's world view. He believes all art should be magic, in the sense that it should seek to transform the reader's consciousness and not exist solely for commercial or entertainment purposes. That is magic to him. It's a bit of an eccentric point of view, but not tied into any paticualr deity worship. Though who knows? He's pretty out there with his beliefs.

 

I'm presently brushed up on this because I happened to watch The Mindscape Of Alan Moore the other day and he spoke on the topic at length.

 

I don't think he tries to cast spells like Gandalf or Merlin. To him casting a spell is writing, like spelling. He is more of an astral traveller. He probably tokes on a doobie and meditates deeply before sitting down to create some bizarre story or performance art. He might throw in some serious symbol worship to add to the atmosphere. As a creative process it's prossibly been a bit of a downward trend, but I wouldn't count him out yet. He'll probably surprise us again.

[TupennyConan]

The generative power of the artist or the poet has always fascinated occultists & the literary, among many others.

 

If Moore's sense of such things were completely limited to your description of his approach to magic, then that would be enough for it to qualify as satanic in the theology of many hundreds of millions of presently living Muslims, Catholics, & protestants. The numbers grow much larger if one includes the no longer living. Specific invocation of the devil by name isn't a prerequisite per wide ranging theologies.

 

I am willing to label as satanic any call for murder; even if that call is gallows humor & especially when that call is issued publicly by an adult, by a talented professional writer, by a person who places such emphasis on the importance of language that they cast it as magic, & by a careful, slow, & deliberate orator.

 

I'm just sayin' he & Miller got some sadism issues they may need to work through in their art a little more.

 

I hope they can produce stuff in the future of the supercool quality they produced decades ago. I'm always ready to give a great artist a chance.

[TupennyConan]

I want to apologize for the semi-personal nature of my early morning reply to you, RickL. That wasn't cool. I was sleepy & too hasty in my typing.

 

[RickL]

(thumbs u

[ComicConnoisseur]

The generative power of the artist or the poet has always fascinated occultists & the literary, among many others.

 

If Moore's sense of such things were completely limited to your description of his approach to magic, then that would be enough for it to qualify as satanic in the theology of many hundreds of millions of presently living Muslims, Catholics, & protestants. The numbers grow much larger if one includes the no longer living. Specific invocation of the devil by name isn't a prerequisite per wide ranging theologies.

 

I am willing to label as satanic any call for murder; even if that call is gallows humor & especially when that call is issued publicly by an adult, by a talented professional writer, by a person who places such emphasis on the importance of language that they cast it as magic, & by a careful, slow, & deliberate orator.

 

I'm just sayin' he & Miller got some sadism issues they may need to work through in their art a little more.

 

I hope they can produce stuff in the future of the supercool quality they produced decades ago. I'm always ready to give a great artist a chance.

They are both like Salvador Dalí and have burnt out and peaked. Similar to Neal Adams and Steranko as well. Great art at the beginning of their careers then a slow ride into mediocrity.

[Logan510]

The generative power of the artist or the poet has always fascinated occultists & the literary, among many others.

 

If Moore's sense of such things were completely limited to your description of his approach to magic, then that would be enough for it to qualify as satanic in the theology of many hundreds of millions of presently living Muslims, Catholics, & protestants. The numbers grow much larger if one includes the no longer living. Specific invocation of the devil by name isn't a prerequisite per wide ranging theologies.

 

I am willing to label as satanic any call for murder; even if that call is gallows humor & especially when that call is issued publicly by an adult, by a talented professional writer, by a person who places such emphasis on the importance of language that they cast it as magic, & by a careful, slow, & deliberate orator.

 

I'm just sayin' he & Miller got some sadism issues they may need to work through in their art a little more.

 

I hope they can produce stuff in the future of the supercool quality they produced decades ago. I'm always ready to give a great artist a chance.

They are both like Salvador Dalí and have burnt out and peaked. Similar to Neal Adams and Steranko as well. Great art at the beginning of their careers then a slow ride into mediocrity.

 

I wish most of the newer comicbook artists were as mediocre as Neal Adams. The guy is 70 and can still draw his arse off.

[Marvelfangirl]

I'm amazed this thread is still here

[goldust40]

The generative power of the artist or the poet has always fascinated occultists & the literary, among many others.

 

If Moore's sense of such things were completely limited to your description of his approach to magic, then that would be enough for it to qualify as satanic in the theology of many hundreds of millions of presently living Muslims, Catholics, & protestants. The numbers grow much larger if one includes the no longer living. Specific invocation of the devil by name isn't a prerequisite per wide ranging theologies.

 

I am willing to label as satanic any call for murder; even if that call is gallows humor & especially when that call is issued publicly by an adult, by a talented professional writer, by a person who places such emphasis on the importance of language that they cast it as magic, & by a careful, slow, & deliberate orator.

 

I'm just sayin' he & Miller got some sadism issues they may need to work through in their art a little more.

 

I hope they can produce stuff in the future of the supercool quality they produced decades ago. I'm always ready to give a great artist a chance.

They are both like Salvador Dalí and have burnt out and peaked. Similar to Neal Adams and Steranko as well. Great art at the beginning of their careers then a slow ride into mediocrity.

 

I wish most of the newer comicbook artists were as mediocre as Neal Adams. The guy is 70 and can still draw his arse off.

 

His art is still decent but barely approximates his 1970s prime. And as for his storytelling...

[ComicConnoisseur]

The generative power of the artist or the poet has always fascinated occultists & the literary, among many others.

 

If Moore's sense of such things were completely limited to your description of his approach to magic, then that would be enough for it to qualify as satanic in the theology of many hundreds of millions of presently living Muslims, Catholics, & protestants. The numbers grow much larger if one includes the no longer living. Specific invocation of the devil by name isn't a prerequisite per wide ranging theologies.

 

I am willing to label as satanic any call for murder; even if that call is gallows humor & especially when that call is issued publicly by an adult, by a talented professional writer, by a person who places such emphasis on the importance of language that they cast it as magic, & by a careful, slow, & deliberate orator.

 

I'm just sayin' he & Miller got some sadism issues they may need to work through in their art a little more.

 

I hope they can produce stuff in the future of the supercool quality they produced decades ago. I'm always ready to give a great artist a chance.

They are both like Salvador Dalí and have burnt out and peaked. Similar to Neal Adams and Steranko as well. Great art at the beginning of their careers then a slow ride into mediocrity.

 

I wish most of the newer comicbook artists were as mediocre as Neal Adams. The guy is 70 and can still draw his arse off.

This isn`t about Neal Adams vs modern artists,but Neal Adams earlier into his career compared to his career now. Same as Miller,Moore,Steranko and Dali`s best work is considered better at the early part of their careers ,and not at the middle and end of their careers.

[DailySuperpower]

The generative power of the artist or the poet has always fascinated occultists & the literary, among many others.

 

If Moore's sense of such things were completely limited to your description of his approach to magic, then that would be enough for it to qualify as satanic in the theology of many hundreds of millions of presently living Muslims, Catholics, & protestants. The numbers grow much larger if one includes the no longer living. Specific invocation of the devil by name isn't a prerequisite per wide ranging theologies.

 

I am willing to label as satanic any call for murder; even if that call is gallows humor & especially when that call is issued publicly by an adult, by a talented professional writer, by a person who places such emphasis on the importance of language that they cast it as magic, & by a careful, slow, & deliberate orator.

 

I'm just sayin' he & Miller got some sadism issues they may need to work through in their art a little more.

 

I hope they can produce stuff in the future of the supercool quality they produced decades ago. I'm always ready to give a great artist a chance.

They are both like Salvador Dalí and have burnt out and peaked. Similar to Neal Adams and Steranko as well. Great art at the beginning of their careers then a slow ride into mediocrity.

 

I wish most of the newer comicbook artists were as mediocre as Neal Adams. The guy is 70 and can still draw his arse off.

This isn`t about Neal Adams vs modern artists,but Neal Adams earlier into his career compared to his career now. Same as Miller,Moore,Steranko and Dali`s best work is considered better at the early part of their careers ,and not at the middle and end of their careers.

 

I think this happens with a lot of artist or creative types. In the beginning you have fresh ideas and a fresh approach to creating whatever it is you're driven to create. Then as time goes on and you gain some success you create, not because you want to, but because others want you to. I think there is a recognizable difference between sincere and insincere art, even if the technical ability of the artist remains relatively constant.

[ComicConnoisseur]

The generative power of the artist or the poet has always fascinated occultists & the literary, among many others.

 

If Moore's sense of such things were completely limited to your description of his approach to magic, then that would be enough for it to qualify as satanic in the theology of many hundreds of millions of presently living Muslims, Catholics, & protestants. The numbers grow much larger if one includes the no longer living. Specific invocation of the devil by name isn't a prerequisite per wide ranging theologies.

 

I am willing to label as satanic any call for murder; even if that call is gallows humor & especially when that call is issued publicly by an adult, by a talented professional writer, by a person who places such emphasis on the importance of language that they cast it as magic, & by a careful, slow, & deliberate orator.

 

I'm just sayin' he & Miller got some sadism issues they may need to work through in their art a little more.

 

I hope they can produce stuff in the future of the supercool quality they produced decades ago. I'm always ready to give a great artist a chance.

They are both like Salvador Dalí and have burnt out and peaked. Similar to Neal Adams and Steranko as well. Great art at the beginning of their careers then a slow ride into mediocrity.

 

I wish most of the newer comicbook artists were as mediocre as Neal Adams. The guy is 70 and can still draw his arse off.

This isn`t about Neal Adams vs modern artists,but Neal Adams earlier into his career compared to his career now. Same as Miller,Moore,Steranko and Dali`s best work is considered better at the early part of their careers ,and not at the middle and end of their careers.

 

I think this happens with a lot of artist or creative types. In the beginning you have fresh ideas and a fresh approach to creating whatever it is you're driven to create. Then as time goes on and you gain some success you create, not because you want to, but because others want you to. I think there is a recognizable difference between sincere and insincere art, even if the technical ability of the artist remains relatively constant.

We can use Francis Ford Coppola,Woody Allen, and even George Lucas for movie examples as well.