Action 5, CGC 9.4 blue on CLINK

[Flex Mentallo]

 

 

And BTW, I'm not letting CGC off the hook on this. Books that are cracked out and resubmitted (especially high grade GA books that have unique identifiers) should be caught by CGC regardless of the end grade.

 

I am not sure what you mean by your comment that these books should be caught by CGC. Are you implying that resubmissions should be flagged by CGC and marked accordingly? This would go against CGC's business model as their grading standards and grading practices have been formulated to encourage resubmissions. To do anything that would discourage resubmissions would not make any economic and/or business sense to them.

 

No, not at all. What I meant was that if we can look at scans of books and easily identify an 8.5 that is now a 9.4, then CGC graders who compile notes on these unique high-grade books should be able to make that jump as well and delete the vanished 8.5 from their census. Clearer now? (thumbs u

 

Last year I stumbled upon a similar issue with a Sensation #1 that was cracked, pressed, and re-subbed without sending in the label. Here was the discussion:

 

CGC Census and Duplicate Entries

 

I really don't have a huge problem with pressing, but it does irk me that the owner didn't send in the original label. I even e-mailed CGC to point out the duplicate census copies (both a 5.0 and a 5.5 census for Sen1). CGC's response (which was reasonable) was that

Both show in the Census, but without the actual original label there is no way to 100% prove they are the same book, so we cannot remove it. We never take scans as proof as they can be easily doctored and are never used as proof of anything by CGC.

 

I am sorry, but since whomever pressed and re-submitted the book did not provide the original label, the Census on this book will remain as is.

 

While reasonable, by reading the grading notes and comparing the images, it's painfully obvious that these books were one and the same. Wouldn't CGC have original "un-doctored" scans that they could compare along with their grading notes?

 

I think the resub without sending in the original label is a big deal with high dollar, low census books. We all want those rare high graded gems, and overstating the census would obviously overstate the supply and potentially reduce demand for some books based on where they land on the census.

 

Its probably an unmanageable administrative problem. For any book it is possible to identify with 100% accuracy, how many will be ambiguous?

[Silver Surfer]

I crack out about 95% of my books but I keep the labels and when I sell them the labels go to the new owners [easily a few hundred books +]. Technically should I be sending in the labels?

[nearmint]

I crack out about 95% of my books but I keep the labels and when I sell them the labels go to the new owners [easily a few hundred books +]. Technically should I be sending in the labels?

 

If you're keeping the book raw, and including the label when you sell the book, I think you're fine. It's duplications of the same book on the census that create a problem.

[Cat-Man_America]

I crack out about 95% of my books but I keep the labels and when I sell them the labels go to the new owners [easily a few hundred books +]. Technically should I be sending in the labels?

 

If you are selling books un-slabbed and including CGC grade labels with the books I don't see it as a problem.

 

What the new owner does could create a problem if the owner decides to submit the cracked out copy without any intention of including the old label and the book gets graded as a different book with no one at CGC the wiser.

 

Technically, every book graded is still slabbed as far as the census is concerned (how would CGC know when a book is cracked out?). Unless CGC is notified otherwise for all intent and purpose every graded book is still slabbed and in the last graded condition.

 

This has less to do with bumps than census accuracy. IOW, when a book is resubmitted and gets graded as a different book.

 

I have no dog in this hunt, but as I see it whether the label is sent in before a book is regraded or afterwards is irrelevant as long as it gets noted eventually.

[jimjum12]

The potential for fraud exists mainly when an individual cracks out an unrestored book and puts it's label with a restored book and claims it was the book that was once slabbed....misleading the new potential buyer. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[Spiderphill]

The potential for fraud exists mainly when an individual cracks out an unrestored book and puts it's label with a restored book and claims it was the book that was once slabbed....misleading the new potential buyer. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

+1, that's why buying any book out of the slab is dangerous unless it's from somebody you can trust.

[Bomber-Bob]

The potential for fraud exists mainly when an individual cracks out an unrestored book and puts it's label with a restored book and claims it was the book that was once slabbed....misleading the new potential buyer. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Great, something else to worry about. Your scenario makes sense, I just never

considered it. I have always worried about buying a deslabbed book for other reasons like damage, especially from the removal process. Also, especially with old labels, there may have been sustained SCS in the slab that, without a press, will affect the grade on a resub.

[nearmint]

A de-slabbed book is an uncertified book.

[Flex Mentallo]

The potential for fraud exists mainly when an individual cracks out an unrestored book and puts it's label with a restored book and claims it was the book that was once slabbed....misleading the new potential buyer. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Same thing can happen with pedigree certificates. It's the certificate you buy, not the comic it's with.

[DrWatson]

No point in me sending you any information. You seem to have a ball putting yours out there with without my help! So just throw the number out there...how many? There's well over 1,000,000 CGC graded books, so you must have an awful lot of missing labels to make the census wildly inaccurate! 50,000? Even 10,000?

One billion...

 

[DrWatson]

The potential for fraud exists mainly when an individual cracks out an unrestored book and puts it's label with a restored book and claims it was the book that was once slabbed....misleading the new potential buyer. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Same thing can happen with pedigree certificates. It's the certificate you buy, not the comic it's with.

This is only true if the pedigree has no other identifying characteristics other than the certificate.

[Flex Mentallo]

The potential for fraud exists mainly when an individual cracks out an unrestored book and puts it's label with a restored book and claims it was the book that was once slabbed....misleading the new potential buyer. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Same thing can happen with pedigree certificates. It's the certificate you buy, not the comic it's with.

This is only true if the pedigree has no other identifying characteristics other than the certificate.

 

That's also true - good point.

[Straw-Man]

And Kenny is right. The snarky attitude towards Matt doesn't help your argument either.

Talk about a strawman argument.

 

It`s not the tone that you guys really object to, it`s the substance. Any statement that`s even remotely negative about Matt, whether delivered sweetly, snarkily or meanly, will immediately bring you, Richard and others jumping to deliver a beat down.

 

i object to anyone other than me making strawman arguments.

[Silver Surfer]

The potential for fraud exists mainly when an individual cracks out an unrestored book and puts it's label with a restored book and claims it was the book that was once slabbed....misleading the new potential buyer. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

+1, that's why buying any book out of the slab is dangerous unless it's from somebody you can trust.

 

+1 and that's a dangerous game to play and the chances of getting caught would be pretty high. Anything worth a decent amount of cash if sold unslabbed would not fetch as high a price if it was slabbed [in most cases] and if the book was nice enough to be reslabbed chances are it will be by the new owner and then the seller is done [unless of course your a knob like Frankenstein/Muscleshark dork!].

[DrWatson]

The potential for fraud exists mainly when an individual cracks out an unrestored book and puts it's label with a restored book and claims it was the book that was once slabbed....misleading the new potential buyer. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

+1, that's why buying any book out of the slab is dangerous unless it's from somebody you can trust.

 

+1 and that's a dangerous game to play and the chances of getting caught would be pretty high. Anything worth a decent amount of cash if sold unslabbed would not fetch as high a price if it was slabbed [in most cases] and if the book was nice enough to be reslabbed chances are it will be by the new owner and then the seller is done [unless of course your a knob like Frankenstein/Muscleshark dork!].

Actually, it isn't. Unless the books you are dealing are not all that plentiful in the CGC census.

 

Take an AF 15 for example. You have a 5.5 and a 6.5. Crack them both out and sell the 5.5 with the 6.5 label and then have the 6.5 regraded. If the purchaser happens to have the 5.5 regraded at a later date, then the grade can always be attributed to the possibility of rough handling after the book was cracked out or the fickleness of CGC. The way their grading can vary is tailored-made for those with the inclination to take advantage of it.

[Silver Surfer]

True but that's a common $10K+ book. I would buy/spend that much money on a raw copy unless I knew the seller pretty well.

[DrWatson]

Yeah, but you're (and I'm going out a limb here) an educated buyer. There are people who have no idea what they are doing spending thousands of dollars buying comics all the time.

 

Plus, I prefaced the statement with a nod to the population of the book on the CGC census.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Yeah, but you're (and I'm going out a limb here) an educated buyer. There are people who have no idea what they are doing spending thousands of dollars buying comics all the time.

 

Plus, I prefaced the statement with a nod to the population of the book on the CGC census.

 

What's this? Another guest appearance by Watson in GA? Plan on becoming a regular ole chap?

[G.A.tor]

Yeah, but you're (and I'm going out a limb here) an educated buyer. There are people who have no idea what they are doing spending thousands of dollars buying comics all the time.

 

Plus, I prefaced the statement with a nod to the population of the book on the CGC census.

 

What's this? Another guest appearance by Watson in GA? Plan on becoming a regular ole chap?

gosh I hope not

[DrWatson]

Yeah, but you're (and I'm going out a limb here) an educated buyer. There are people who have no idea what they are doing spending thousands of dollars buying comics all the time.

 

Plus, I prefaced the statement with a nod to the population of the book on the CGC census.

 

What's this? Another guest appearance by Watson in GA? Plan on becoming a regular ole chap?

gosh I hope not

I'm trying very hard to be nice and polite while not disturbing the old timers as they gum their applesauce.

 

Plus, Comics General is getting to be too much wildly_fanciful_statement even for me. I know I don't collect Golden Ages books, but a lot of the topics can transcend collecting focus and be applied hobby wide... and Billy Parker hangs around a lot. He makes me laugh.