Doug Schmell cashing in his vaulted massive collecion. Poll: Is this the top?

[sacentaur]

Think about all the new books that have come to market and I think it's fair to say there are a lot of buyers out there.

 

There are definitely a lot of buyers, but a lot (maybe most) of those buyers are also sellers, which means that as books are coming in, books also have to go out. At some point there will be too many books out there.

 

Too many books might be the wrong way to phrase it.

 

Remember that in economics whenever prices drop low enough, people start buying again. It's true in EVERY cyclical economy whether it's stocks or comics.

 

So even if the market is flooded with books and prices drop as soon as prices drop to a certain point people start buying again propping them up. It's human nature and it's happened time and time again.

 

The problem with this is that comics are not stocks; there is a relatively tiny group of collectors keeping the high grade market afloat; if this tiny group experiences a "crash", most will likely exit the hobby and not return in the same capacity if at all, even if prices are low. I would even say ESPECIALLY if prices are low. Strong prices get people in a frenzy to buy, low prices turn people off, because people tend to follow the herd. Buyers want to see other people spending to feel comfortable with their own buying.

 

Remember, the collector base is aging. The increase in prices that we've seen can largely be attributed to the fact that the people with the most emotional/nostalgic attachment to these books have hit the prime of their financial lives. If enough of these spenders get burned by a crash, the market may never recover. Does this mean no one will be buying books? No.

 

 

This is wrong. Dead wrong. There is a relatively huge group of collectors who keep all of the comic market affloat. Some are high grade collectors, some are GA collectors, some buy what they like. But the fact is, unless you are out there doing it every day, you don't know who is buying what, and how many people are buying it.

 

The simple fact is that for everyone buyer you know, like Cheetah, and Doc Joe, and Barton, and Doug and Tom and the few others that are known by this board, there are a dozen you don't know about. Many I don't know about. I know I sold books to Eminem this weekend at Motor City Comic Con. So did Bob. There are people in this hobby buying books that no one on this board will ever know about.

 

I have guys at SDCC who I am relatively certain don't buy books anywhere else, except at the show. I am sure there are many stars, athletes, millionaires and billionaires, etc who love comics and are buying books that you and I will never know about.

 

I don't think this thing of ours will ever end, at least not in our lifetime, unless the entire economy crashes. At which point, no one is going to care anyway.

 

"THE" Eminem buying comics I would never have expected that not by 8 miles

 

"Yo, you got a Reform School Girl comics book?"

 

[Guardian Comics]

I can't believe the message board theories, although it is entertaining. While reading through this thread I can't help sense the jealousy, pettiness and poor business sense many posters possess.

This is one of the finest collections I've ever seen and when I held that 9.6 Fantastic Four #1 and rifled through the boxes of this collection with Doug I never felt more excited to see the best of the best. Rumours and the like, aside. I enjoyed hanging out with Doug and wish him the best of luck on the auction. I think it'll be a record breaking haul.

 

 

Didn't Dad & Son post pics of spending time at Doug's house and holding all those great books for us all to see before he "disappeared". Come to think of it he was Canadian as well. Seems you two have a lot in common

 

Where did you say you met your wife again?

 

Jim

[Mr.Diggler]

I can't believe the message board theories, although it is entertaining. While reading through this thread I can't help sense the jealousy, pettiness and poor business sense many posters possess.

This is one of the finest collections I've ever seen and when I held that 9.6 Fantastic Four #1 and rifled through the boxes of this collection with Doug I never felt more excited to see the best of the best. Rumours and the like, aside. I enjoyed hanging out with Doug and wish him the best of luck on the auction. I think it'll be a record breaking haul.

 

 

Didn't Dad & Son post pics of spending time at Doug's house and holding all those great books for us all to see, and he was Canadian as well. Seems you two have a lot in common

Where did you meet your wife again?

 

Jim

 

[sacentaur]

If Billy Wright had been a convicted felon, I would still have bid on his books to enhance my collection - my "personal decision".

 

Billy Wright is dead, and had been so long before his collection was brought to market by his heirs, who were the beneficiaries.

 

Objection overruled.

 

Its not an objection; just an opinion that apparently differs from yours. I do, however, appreciate your passion on the issue.

 

Thnx Josh - I didn't mean to be so snarky, but it does go to show us how a figure like Schmell can have such a pernicious and polarizing effect on others.

 

It is what it is.

[TheShadowKnows]

I cannot see how boycotting this auction is gonna make you collection better.....and are you saying that he took pacfic coast comics and broke them out and pressed them and resubmitted them...not on the high grade stuff and how dare you link Ha auctions to DS auctions, I know ha is legit...DS I hae never done buss with.

I would never need a book that bad.Every single cent has been taken out of these books.Kind of like buying Facebook IPO at 50.......

[oakman29]

I can't afford 500K books regardless.I hope Doug chokes on the money he gets.

[500Club]

So many questions.

 

Simply choose to either do business with Doug (thru HA) or not.

 

That's the main course. The rest is parsley.

[VintageComics]

"THE" Eminem buying comics I would never have expected that not by 8 miles

 

Yup. Talked to a Detroit store owner last year who has sold him lots of vintage comics.

 

Used to walk into his story regularly.

 

[Sardo Numspar]

If Billy Wright had been a convicted felon, I would still have bid on his books to enhance my collection - my "personal decision".

 

Billy Wright is dead, and had been so long before his collection was brought to market by his heirs, who were the beneficiaries.

 

Objection overruled.

 

Its not an objection; just an opinion that apparently differs from yours. I do, however, appreciate your passion on the issue.

 

Thnx Josh - I didn't mean to be so snarky, but it does go to show us how a figure like Schmell can have such a pernicious and polarizing effect on others.

 

It is what it is.

 

Indeed (thumbs u

[batman_fan]

OK let me get this straight - the instructions are boycott then buy later ?!!

 

Putting money in pocket of HA seller because of his history - bad.

Putting money in the pocket of the HA buyer who ignored the seller's history - good.

 

This hobby is confusing.

 

 

But what happens if you know that the HA buyer knew the seller's history, but the HA buyer who is now re-selling the book has a solid history. Do you buy the book, or stay away on principle because he/she knew the original seller's bad history at the time of the HA sale? So many questions.

 

For myself, I would avoid Dougie books period regardless of who is selling them. The reason is he just has too shady of a background and has shown a complete disregard for anyone in his pursuit of his collection. Because of this, I would have no confidence in what may have been done to the books he owns in trying to achieve the highest grade possible. Just not worth the risk. Blue holder has no meaning. Dougie got a trimmed Ewert book through CGC on a resub when he was trying to launder the book. Just to say it one more time. Dougie got a book that was trimmed by Ewert re-certified and placed into a blue holder. This occurred AFTER CGC knew about the Ewert train wreck and claimed to know how to detect the trimming. Obviously their detection capability is not perfect.

[chunkybutt]

I PUT MY MONEY WHERE MY MOUTH WAS.

This has possibilities...

 

??? His money is in Doug's wallet?

[CycleGirl]

Think about all the new books that have come to market and I think it's fair to say there are a lot of buyers out there.

 

There are definitely a lot of buyers, but a lot (maybe most) of those buyers are also sellers, which means that as books are coming in, books also have to go out. At some point there will be too many books out there.

 

Too many books might be the wrong way to phrase it.

 

Remember that in economics whenever prices drop low enough, people start buying again. It's true in EVERY cyclical economy whether it's stocks or comics.

 

So even if the market is flooded with books and prices drop as soon as prices drop to a certain point people start buying again propping them up. It's human nature and it's happened time and time again.

 

The problem with this is that comics are not stocks; there is a relatively tiny group of collectors keeping the high grade market afloat; if this tiny group experiences a "crash", most will likely exit the hobby and not return in the same capacity if at all, even if prices are low. I would even say ESPECIALLY if prices are low. Strong prices get people in a frenzy to buy, low prices turn people off, because people tend to follow the herd. Buyers want to see other people spending to feel comfortable with their own buying.

 

Remember, the collector base is aging. The increase in prices that we've seen can largely be attributed to the fact that the people with the most emotional/nostalgic attachment to these books have hit the prime of their financial lives. If enough of these spenders get burned by a crash, the market may never recover. Does this mean no one will be buying books? No.

 

 

This is wrong. Dead wrong. There is a relatively huge group of collectors who keep all of the comic market affloat. Some are high grade collectors, some are GA collectors, some buy what they like. But the fact is, unless you are out there doing it every day, you don't know who is buying what, and how many people are buying it.

 

The simple fact is that for everyone buyer you know, like Cheetah, and Doc Joe, and Barton, and Doug and Tom and the few others that are known by this board, there are a dozen you don't know about. Many I don't know about. I know I sold books to Eminem this weekend at Motor City Comic Con. So did Bob. There are people in this hobby buying books that no one on this board will ever know about.

 

I have guys at SDCC who I am relatively certain don't buy books anywhere else, except at the show. I am sure there are many stars, athletes, millionaires and billionaires, etc who love comics and are buying books that you and I will never know about.

 

I don't think this thing of ours will ever end, at least not in our lifetime, unless the entire economy crashes. At which point, no one is going to care anyway.

 

Great post, Dale! A couple of months ago, I lurked on the thread that followed the Heritage Golden Age auction of Church books. I was struck by the fact that many books were selling for 5 figures and people on the boards didn't personally know the buyers.

 

Dale's description of a large market of high-end, relatively wealthy collectors must be true. Haven't we seen the proof of it?

 

 

 

[toro]

What I heard was that Doug is only selling because he looked at his calendar on the wall and decided it was now or never. :shrug:

 

[CycleGirl]

In answer to the question of the poll, which paraphrased "Why is Doug selling now?"

 

I don't know Doug S. but here are the reasons why I suspect he is selling

 

1) He has decided to diversify his investments and/or to invest in something that pays a steady income like bonds, rental property or dividend paying stock. After all, comic books don't pay interest or dividends. If he's decided to retire or semi-retire, this would be a wise choice IMO.

 

2) Many keys and pedigrees are selling at strong prices right now, so yes, it's a good time to sell. Perhaps they'll go up even higher in the future - who can say?

 

 

P.S. I won't be bidding... the books are too expensive for me anyway.

 

 

[burntboy]

Why are so many people shocked that Doug is using Heritage as a venue for his books? Their client base is enormous, they spend more money marketing auctions than anyone else and they have by far the best online bidding system in the market.

 

because that would be a boringly rational explanation and there are so many better inflammatory conspiracy theories available to dredge up from whole cloth

 

Thank You...I can't even put into words how pained I am to see so many BS theories about how/why/where/who, etc., proffered in this thread...speculating can be fun sometimes but seems like overkill...

[buttock]

One thing I'm sure of is that Doug will not be shilling his own books in this auction...

 

 

[burntboy]

I can't believe the message board theories, although it is entertaining. While reading through this thread I can't help sense the jealousy, pettiness and poor business sense many posters possess.

 

You must do a better job of understanding the known facts and history before you stick your neck out like this.

 

Oh, i get a feeling he might know far more than you. sir...

[originalisbest]

Don't really care about this auction, never will be likely to afford such rare air delicacies, but I do sincerely hope a wicked karmic payback will be in store for Dougie and his ilk one day.

[burntboy]

[

I'm not apologizing for Doug. I'm just of the opinion that its senseless to question his reasoning for consigning his books to Heritage. I also find it slightly ridiculous that there is such extreme hostility toward the books themselves (with people refusing to bid on, or even watch, the auction) because of the character history of the consignor. These books are arguably the finest examples in existence. Once sold and resold, should the books be avoided and ignored because Doug once owned them? Should we ignore every book previously sold on Pedigree's site because they were once sold through Doug's company? It just makes no sense. This is a hobby about collecting funny books, and some of the comments in this thread just seem to miss the mark.

Personally I think he's a lowlife piece of sheit.

 

Not surprised to see you jump into this fight...you seem to like it when the odds are in your favor...Sardo's comments are well said... (thumbs u

[500Club]

I can't believe the message board theories, although it is entertaining. While reading through this thread I can't help sense the jealousy, pettiness and poor business sense many posters possess.

 

You must do a better job of understanding the known facts and history before you stick your neck out like this.

 

Oh, i get a feeling he might know far more than you. sir...

 

You have a feeling. I have facts.