A new fourth party grading system....CVA Comics

[500Club]

Here's another flaw:

 

How can they determine whether a book has "exceptional eye appeal" if that book is the only CGC graded existing copy for a given tier?

 

To simply look at a book through a "slabbed filter" in absolute terms without any relative examination is an extremely limited way to determine a book's eye appeal.

The books are evaluated relative to other books in that grade. There is no reason to limit the assessment to that specific issue.

 

If there is only one 9.6 of that book, it doesn't matter; it is evaluated relative to the 9.6 grade in general.

 

 

 

"Your 9.6 is the nicest 9.6 of the 9.6's I've seen (through an outer slab, and an inner well) and that deserves a gold sticker!"

That's how it's done.

 

I wasn't really offering an opinion on the service.

[bronze johnny]

How are they going to make a "relative" analysis for books in the same grade? Are you assuming that they will have access to all those books in the same grade tier? Moreover, are you saying that their is a "model 9.6" that they will compare to when making this determination? We are not talking about technical grading- these guys are saying a book looks nice in their opinion- an opinion based on what criteria?

 

Respectfully,

 

John

[AnkurJ]

Im guessing they will start with only pre 1970 books so I dont think the 9.8 question is going to arise too much. As for how will they analize a book in the same grade, it would require someone who has extensive experience in comics and who knows how to grade, and has graded before CGC existed.

 

I dont know the experience of their staff, but that is how it would need to be done. In coins the person who started the company has been in coins since he was young and knows the ins and outs.

 

As for assesment of the page quality, how do you do it? CGC has made is very two dimensional when it comes to making an assesment of a comic. The front, the back, and what CGC says about the pages. Right? I'm pretty sure CGC notates if there are any major flaws in an interior such a coupon or big chunk out. Most of those books get qualified grades anyway.

 

Please keep one thing in mind everyone. When CGC started, it wasn't exactly accepted with open arms. Look at it now. It has set a standard for the industry. All I am saying is do not write this company off without letting them prove themselves.

[500Club]

How are they going to make a "relative" analysis for books in the same grade? Are you assuming that they will have access to all those books in the same grade tier? Moreover, are you saying that their is a "model 9.6" that they will compare to when making this determination?

No, but at the end of the day, the 'graders' will have seen enough examples of a given grade to offer an opinion of a strong vs a weak 'grade X'. It won't be much different than the CGC graders having seen enough books to evaluate defects and offer a grade.

 

From that point, the market itself will decide if their assessment abilities warrant a premium pain for a stickered book.

 

That having been said, there are some concerns with the model that have been well worded in the main CVA thread.

[dupont2005]

It's simply the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard. Couldn't you remove the stickers also and move them onto another slab?

No.

 

They stated the sticker would degrade somehow.

Couldn't you print up your own sticker for a fraction of a cent and put them on all your books and say you're a new company that does that?

[thespazz]

Why stop at a 4th party option? Who will make sure their scale is up to par? Maybe a 5th party evaluation company? Sorry but this is the stupidest thing i've heard since i've been a collector.

[bronze johnny]

This isn't a technical determination that they are making. These guys are going to tell you a book has "eye appeal." It's not accurate to compare this process to CGC's.

 

CGC provides an accurate model for third party technical grading not a subjective whim that attempts to define the nature of a book's aesthetic effect on the person viewing that book.

 

Respectfully,

 

John

[dupont2005]

This isn't a technical determination that they are making. These guys are going to tell you a book has "eye appeal." It's not accurate to compare this process to CGC's.

 

CGC provides an accurate model for third party technical grading not a subjective whim that attempts to define the nature of a book's aesthetic effect on the person viewing that book.

 

Respectfully,

 

John

Yeah. What CGC does requires an expert's knowledge. Or more precisely three experts. What CVA does just requires at least one eyeball and an opinion. No need to pay for that service.

[bronze johnny]

The potential problem we have is that these guys are performing services for the dealers at this time. What's to stop a dealer from raising their price now that they have a sticker on their book- a book that we might want/need for our collections? These added costs may have a detrimental impact on many collectors since this gratuitous cost will be passed onto guess who? It's easy for someone to say "just don't buy the book" - but there may be instances where we have no choice but to buy a book for a particular reason (scarcity, pedigree, etc.). One word for this- gratuitous.

 

Respectfully,

 

John

[dupont2005]

They can raise the price without the sticker. It's definitely what they plan to do though.

[RockMyAmadeus]

4th party .

 

[DWL]

Looking at their web page, I guess the CEO is an attorney. No offense to all the attorneys who can function in the real world (both of them), this business model is what attorneys think you should have so that they avoid actually obligating their service to provide anything. If you think you can start a company while protecting from every possible source of risk, you get a company that charges a fee but won't really tell you what the fee is for.

 

I am a fan of subtle humour.

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

4th party .

 

 

Why do you say this isn't a 4th party service?

 

Please explain.

[500Club]

This isn't a technical determination that they are making. These guys are going to tell you a book has "eye appeal." It's not accurate to compare this process to CGC's.

 

CGC provides an accurate model for third party technical grading not a subjective whim that attempts to define the nature of a book's aesthetic effect on the person viewing that book.

Yes and no. I find truth in your statement that there is subjective whim. However, some of what makes 'eye appeal' is in fact technical. As discussed in the other thread, miswraps, gloss, distributor overspray etc etc... are physical findings. I also don't think CGC operates under a purely technical set of rules where defects are added and weighted/scored.

 

My personal stance is that I won't be using the service. I am, however, willing to keep an open mind and allow the market to decide.

[500Club]

It's simply the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard. Couldn't you remove the stickers also and move them onto another slab?

No.

 

They stated the sticker would degrade somehow.

Couldn't you print up your own sticker for a fraction of a cent and put them on all your books and say you're a new company that does that?

Yup.

 

Already in the works.

 

Dr Balls seal of approval.

[Jiminy_Cricket-migration]

Why stop at a 4th party option? Who will make sure their scale is up to par? Maybe a 5th party evaluation company? Sorry but this is the stupidest thing i've heard since i've been a collector.

 

Stupid, stupider, stupidest.

 

Stupid, more stupid, most stupid.

 

Which one do you prefer? This is the real question we should be asking ourselves.

[orfew]

It's simply the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard. Couldn't you remove the stickers also and move them onto another slab?

No.

 

They stated the sticker would degrade somehow.

Couldn't you print up your own sticker for a fraction of a cent and put them on all your books and say you're a new company that does that?

Yup.

 

Already in the works.

 

Dr Balls seal of approval.

 

What is the highest rating "2 balls"?

[shrunkenhead]

It's simply the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard. Couldn't you remove the stickers also and move them onto another slab?

No.

 

They stated the sticker would degrade somehow.

Couldn't you print up your own sticker for a fraction of a cent and put them on all your books and say you're a new company that does that?

Yup.

 

Already in the works.

 

Dr Balls seal of approval.

 

What is the highest rating "2 balls"?

 

I'm thinking there should be a rarely-used 3-ball rating for freakishly eye-catching books that stop you in your tracks and make you stare. Like, a 9.8 book from the 1930s, for example, should be a 3-baller.

[Magneto]

So is this sticker better or worse than the one Comiclink puts on the back of a slab in their auctions.

 

Not a big fan of any stickers on my CGC books... Unless it is Dr. Balls.

[dupont2005]

I am, however, willing to keep an open mind and allow the market to decide.

The first time a serious spender pays a 25% premium at auction because the comic had a nickel sticker on it and gets it home and realizes it's no nicer than any other 9.6 he has, that will be the end.