CGC Acquires Classics Inc - Response to your Questions

[awe4one]

Really? After the fallout years ago relating to PCS, they do this? What has changed since then?

 

Jim

[comicwiz]

Really? After the fallout years ago relating to PCS, they do this? What has changed since then?

 

Jim

 

There's less nimrods like you to falsely accuse them of wrongdoing.

[blazingbob]

Well there are at least 10 spots at the craps table. We can have a "working" conference.

 

If Poker is the "table" of choice all decisions will have to have a 2-5 limit or "all in" voting rule.

 

However as in the case with CGC we would refuse to participate in the progressive slot machine or wheel of $$$ making decision style.

 

Bob

[Davenport]

Really? After the fallout years ago relating to PCS, they do this? What has changed since then?

 

Jim

Good question.

Would it be accurate to say the 'rollout generation' largely drifted away or cashed out, some players became disillusioned, and the next gen came into a gamed system, so it's no big deal, all they've ever known?

 

Don't know, but that's what I keep thinking, a cgc-gen being roughly a decade or so.

[awe4one]

Really? After the fallout years ago relating to PCS, they do this? What has changed since then?

 

Jim

 

There's less nimrods like you to falsely accuse them of wrongdoing.

 

Pointing out "conflict of interest" isn't being a nimrod but rather calling out something that is what it is. Just because there's less people doing so these days doesn't change the situation.

 

But keep following the hive mind mentality if that works for you...

 

Jim

[awe4one]

Really? After the fallout years ago relating to PCS, they do this? What has changed since then?

 

Jim

Good question.

Would it be accurate to say the 'rollout generation' largely drifted away or cashed out, some players became disillusioned, and the next gen came into a gamed system, so it's no big deal, all they've ever known?

 

Don't know, but that's what I keep thinking, a cgc-gen being roughly a decade or so.

 

You have probably nailed it.

 

Jim

[comicwiz]

Really? After the fallout years ago relating to PCS, they do this? What has changed since then?

 

Jim

 

There's less nimrods like you to falsely accuse them of wrongdoing.

 

Pointing out "conflict of interest" isn't being a nimrod but rather calling out something that is what it is. Just because there's less people doing so these days doesn't change the situation.

 

But keep following the hive mind mentality if that works for you...

 

Jim

 

The only main difference is that the community has more street cred now. The community voice is made up of people of influence and a strong hobby presence.

 

When this exploded in its first iteration, everyone went into attack mode and it was less cogent a message of protest, but the numbers in the mob was what likely caused their retreat.

 

I think it lends itself partly to Dav's point, but as far as community resistence, there is a lot less involvement by those with and vinegar in their blood over the issue.

[awe4one]

Really? After the fallout years ago relating to PCS, they do this? What has changed since then?

 

Jim

 

There's less nimrods like you to falsely accuse them of wrongdoing.

 

Pointing out "conflict of interest" isn't being a nimrod but rather calling out something that is what it is. Just because there's less people doing so these days doesn't change the situation.

 

But keep following the hive mind mentality if that works for you...

 

Jim

 

The only main difference is that the community has more street cred now. The community voice is made up of people of influence and a strong hobby presence.

 

When this exploded in its first iteration, everyone went into attack mode and it was less cogent a message of protest, but number of people in the mob was what likely caused their retreat.

 

I think it lends itself partly to Dav's point, but as far as community resistence, there is a lot less involvement by those with and vinegar in their blood over the issue.

 

Doesn't make it any less wrong.

 

Jim

[Bookery]

That is indeed the dilemma for CGC. Only way to solve this and keeps everybody happy seems to be disclosing the information not in the label but rather along with the grader's notes.

 

CGC cannot put pressing information anywhere at anytime. It is disaster... not for CGC profits, not for "transparency"... it is a disaster for the hobby itself, and a disaster even for the very collectors that are intent on shooting themselves in the foot with this idea.

 

If CGC identifies pressing (in notes or anywhere else) it is doing something that can only be identified with books that came through a specific channel (themselves), and cannot perform the same task on an even greater number of books out there that have not.

 

The whole point of going through a third-party grader... and let me say it again... the whole point of going through a third-party grader... is to achieve certainty. CGC can hold up a book and declare that "this book has been restored" and "this book has not been restored". That creates certainty, and that creates confidence in the hobby and the market.

 

But with "disclosed pressing" you have a situation in which CGC can hold up a book and say "this book has been pressed". But they can never ever hold up a book and say that "this book has not been pressed". That means that every single book that ever doesn't have grader's notes identifying it as pressed is absolutely meaningless. Those that dislike pressing will avoid the pressed books, but will still pile multiple copies of pressed books into their collections while playing "see no evil". You are asking CGC to institute a policy that doesn't deliver transparency... just helps you deceive yourselves about what you are actually buying while giving a completely false veil of "sancioned information". This creates chaos, not stability.

 

I see numerous times the phrase "CGC chooses not to consider pressing restoration". By logical consequence, one must then infer those saying that believe restoration can be consistently detected. What I don't understand is... if that's the case, why don't one of you do it? There are many on these boards with more years and experience than even the CGC graders. Why not teach yourselves pressing indentification, set up such a service, and make yourselves millionaires? CGC might even hire you or make you a partner... because labeling then becomes viable if a book can safely be declared un-pressed as easily as an in-house book can be declared to be pressed.

 

****************

 

Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with CGC. I've only sent a handful of books to be slabbed over a decade. I've only had three books professionally pressed, and don't care about pressing one way or the other. I care about common sense and logical solutions to emotional issues. I have no financial issue in this debate one way or the other. I am not associated with the Ohio Lottery, no am an Ohio Lottery affiliate, or am associated with any linked agency, advertising, or partnership of said institution. Some of my opinions may not be valid in certain states... check with your local government before accepting or declining said opinions. All opinions subject to change without notice.

 

[awe4one]

It lends to a major manipulation by a company who is considered a key factor in the current market. And if that doesn't concern the common collector who values his collection then they deserve what they get.

 

Jim

[Davenport]

I think it lends itself partly to Dav's point, but as far as community resistence, there is a lot less involvement by those with and vinegar in their blood over the issue.

That, and the expectation to play/game the system has solidified.

 

It's always been a two tier System. One tier ignores the properties of paper, one tier applies the properties of paper, together creating an exploit.

 

So all that really changes is 'one-stop shopping'.

[Boozad]

The whole point of going through a third-party grader... and let me say it again... the whole point of going through a third-party grader... is to achieve certainty.

 

It's to achieve their opinion.

 

CGC can hold up a book and declare that "this book has been restored" and "this book has not been restored". That creates certainty, and that creates confidence in the hobby and the market.

 

CGC can now hold a book up and say "there was resto on this book but between us and CI we got it into a blue label".

[blazingbob]

Well CVA could definitely make a name for themselves by attaching a "exceptionally pressed" sticker to books.

 

 

[comicwiz]

Really? After the fallout years ago relating to PCS, they do this? What has changed since then?

 

Jim

 

There's less nimrods like you to falsely accuse them of wrongdoing.

 

Pointing out "conflict of interest" isn't being a nimrod but rather calling out something that is what it is. Just because there's less people doing so these days doesn't change the situation.

 

But keep following the hive mind mentality if that works for you...

 

Jim

 

The only main difference is that the community has more street cred now. The community voice is made up of people of influence and a strong hobby presence.

 

When this exploded in its first iteration, everyone went into attack mode and it was less cogent a message of protest, but number of people in the mob was what likely caused their retreat.

 

I think it lends itself partly to Dav's point, but as far as community resistence, there is a lot less involvement by those with and vinegar in their blood over the issue.

 

Doesn't make it any less wrong.

 

Jim

 

This is about access to grading analysis and money.

 

Everybody is well aware of the money part.

 

The game-changer was when Steve left CGC, and became employed by Heritage.

 

Some may remember that Matt was helping Heritage. But with Steve, you now had the potent combination of acquiring hobby stewardship, immediate credibility and grading acumen that removed a lot of the hit and miss aspect from a highly gamed system.

 

The move may well have created a motivation of fear play for everyone who wasn't Heritage.

 

With CI out of the freelance game, you now eliminate a lot of the hit and miss for everyone else, and even out the playing field for everyone who doesn't have a Steve B on staff.

 

The only difference is your outsourcing the services rather than paying a permanent position.

 

None of this is being said to overshadow the concerns people have with the conflictual nature of the deal, and it's impact on people's perception of impartiality, but this is all a by-product of the fact that people can't seem to walk away from the rain dance that's going on with gamified grading.

 

That last part is probably the biggest thing that is wrong here, not that a business entity is seeing it is an opportunity to make money.

[Nico Esq]

This news release is internally contradictory. In one breath CGC states, "As an independent member of the Certified Collectibles Group (CCG) of companies, Classics will operate as a stand alone business separate from CGC" and in another it claims "Classics can now work with CGC to ensure all removal is achieved before grading which will eliminate wasted CGC fees." CGC merely gives empty rhetoric in response to concerns about the actual and apparent conflict of interest. There is trouble in CGC paradise. CGC's reign at the top may come to an end because of shortsightedness and greed. It is a shame. The only way that CGC can possibly retain any of its legitimacy as a neutral, objective, third-party is to clearly demonstrate that CGC and Classics are separate and distinct entities that do not communicate with one another, employ different people and do not collude with one another. CGC has explicitly rejected this approach and even in the best case scenario where CGC would adopt this approach it would still be very difficult for it to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

 

[DrWatson]

Well CVA could definitely make a name for themselves by attaching a "exceptionally pressed" sticker to books.

Since Matt's hitched his wagon to the CGC, what are you going to do with the extra booth space?

[comeaux]

CGC has explicitly rejected this approach and even in the best case scenario where CGC would adopt this approach it would still be very difficult for it to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

 

Who cares? The world ends next month and people will be running through cities with hair on fire and chunks of concrete falling on them.

[Nico Esq]

CGC has explicitly rejected this approach and even in the best case scenario where CGC would adopt this approach it would still be very difficult for it to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

 

Who cares? The world ends next month and people will be running through cities with hair on fire and chunks of concrete falling on them.

 

[blazingbob]

I'll be charging $3 for Pro-Screens.

 

I'll be more than happy to put a "estimated grade" on them.

 

I'm stepping in to fill a business void.

 

Rent to Joey only if he shaves

 

 

[DrWatson]

How are your turn around times?