DavidTheDavid Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 1) we see him 2) he has dialogue 3) he's named 4) he's PINK Fixed Exactly. Hard to call it a cameo if the supposed cameo appearance doesn't look anything like the guy, right? It's very htf in high grade, and I love the cover, but if what's inside the cover matters at all, there really isn't a whole lot to work with here. I don't know, man, but I sure as heck wanna ride in the whiz-wagon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_rushin Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Any guesses on when ASM #121 won't be the same price as #129? . Amazing what one chitty movie can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaeldubyoo Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Just for the record, JO 134 is a rarer book than FP 1, but it barely, and I mean by the skin of its teeth, qualifies as even a cameo. One of the weakest cameos in the history of comics......period. Darkseid is Kirby's baby, not Neal Adams'. Neal Adams only did the cover, not the interior. Jack Kirby was the penciller for the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaeldubyoo Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 (edited) For 4, I like how CGC does it. If the character appears first without costume, it's first appearance of the character's real name. Then if the character appears in costume, it's first appearance of character's real name as (superhero). However, if the costume appears first without revealing the identity it's 1st Superhero. Then if the character appears without the costume it's 1st real name. Market-wise in most cases, it's whichever is printed 1st is worth the most money. Except War Machine, Ant Man, Venom, and even Cable all appeared in costume 2nd and those are the money books right? Not true for Ant-Man. For some reason, TTA#27 is erroneously listed as the first appearance of Ant-Man even though it's Hank Pym in street clothes. He becomes Ant-Man in TTA#35 and it's listed as Ant-Man's 2nd appearance... Shouldn't Avengers #59 be the 2nd appearance of Yellowjacket then? So Fantastic Four #1 is not a first appearance because they appear only in civvies? Being in costume should not be the main criterion for determining a first appearance. Aren't they the same persons in street clothes? Edited August 17, 2014 by jaeldubyoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighStakesComics Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Just for the record, JO 134 is a rarer book than FP 1, but it barely, and I mean by the skin of its teeth, qualifies as even a cameo. One of the weakest cameos in the history of comics......period. Darkseid is Kirby's baby, not Neal Adams'. Neal Adams only did the cover, not the interior. Jack Kirby was the penciller for the story. Exactly. That's why you throw the it has the better cover argument out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inhuman Fiend Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 If someone started a thread for debating first appearances it would fetch lots of replies and tons of views. That would be good. And it would remove the discussion from this thread. That would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catch21 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) The real issue was there are ebay sellers were telling buyers Gamora's 1st appearance was Strange Tales 181 when it is not according to CGC, the market, and Overstreet. In my eyes, this was creating a false demand on the ebay market for those that own Strange Tales 181. Both Strange Tales 180 and 181 are "Bronze age comics that are heating up on eBay" Edited August 18, 2014 by catch21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighStakesComics Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) The real issue was there are ebay sellers were telling buyers Gamora's 1st appearance was Strange Tales 181 when it is not according to CGC, the market, and Overstreet. In my eyes, this was creating a false demand on the ebay market for those that own Strange Tales 181. You always have to do some due dilligence. Be your own advocate. No one will protect your own interests more than yourself. That said, IH 181 & MP 4 & 7 aside, I think you could look long and hard and still not find a hotter book than ASM 194 right now. Edited August 18, 2014 by blazincomics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 The real issue was there are ebay sellers were telling buyers Gamora's 1st appearance was Strange Tales 181 when it is not according to CGC, the market, and Overstreet. In my eyes, this was creating a false demand on the ebay market for those that own Strange Tales 181. You always have to do some due dilligence. Be your own advocate. No one will protect your own interests more than yourself. That said, IH 181 & MP 4 & 7 aside, I think you could look long and hard and still not find a hotter book than ASM 194 right now. Exactly. You don't need someone to hold your hand. Do research. Decide for yourself. The market is what it is, and precious few can directly influence it, much less control it. However, no individual needs the market to decide for them what they should, or should not, think about any given issue, for any reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverdream Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) The real issue was there are ebay sellers were telling buyers Gamora's 1st appearance was Strange Tales 181 when it is not according to CGC, the market, and Overstreet. In my eyes, this was creating a false demand on the ebay market for those that own Strange Tales 181. You always have to do some due dilligence. Be your own advocate. No one will protect your own interests more than yourself. That said, IH 181 & MP 4 & 7 aside, I think you could look long and hard and still not find a hotter book than ASM 194 right now. Exactly. You don't need someone to hold your hand. Do research. Decide for yourself. The market is what it is, and precious few can directly influence it, much less control it. However, no individual needs the market to decide for them what they should, or should not, think about any given issue, for any reason. One could say the same thing about grades, but I don't see many arguments saying we don't need CGC deciding the grades on books ( holding our hands as you put it ). Just do your own research right? Learn how to spot color touch, leaf casting, and so on... good luck! CGC removes the thought about grade, for most. It says 9.8, so its a 9.8. The other things they put on their labels do matter, and it does affect decision making. You make it seem like everyone else is so simple minded for not wanting to spend their precious time trying to figure out if OS, or CGC are right or wrong, when all they want to do is trust what CGC puts on a label. People have plenty of other things to do than take a day researching when a character appeared first. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be collecting comics, or are foolish for trusting another source to be correct about it. They are buying CGC comics for a reason. Edited August 18, 2014 by Silverdream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revat Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 For 4, I like how CGC does it. If the character appears first without costume, it's first appearance of the character's real name. Then if the character appears in costume, it's first appearance of character's real name as (superhero). However, if the costume appears first without revealing the identity it's 1st Superhero. Then if the character appears without the costume it's 1st real name. Market-wise in most cases, it's whichever is printed 1st is worth the most money. Except War Machine, Ant Man, Venom, and even Cable all appeared in costume 2nd and those are the money books right? Not true for Ant-Man. For some reason, TTA#27 is erroneously listed as the first appearance of Ant-Man even though it's Hank Pym in street clothes. He becomes Ant-Man in TTA#35 and it's listed as Ant-Man's 2nd appearance... Shouldn't Avengers #59 be the 2nd appearance of Yellowjacket then? So Fantastic Four #1 is not a first appearance because they appear only in civvies? Being in costume should not be the main criterion for determining a first appearance. Aren't they the same persons in street clothes? I think the answer is.... depends. I would say that if that person hasn't actually gained the powers or identity at the time, that its not the first appearance of the identity. First Robin/ Grayson is TEC 38, but I don't think anyone would say that its the first appearance of Nightwing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akaSteveRogers Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) Exactly. You don't need someone to hold your hand. Do research. Decide for yourself. The market is what it is, and precious few can directly influence it, much less control it. However, no individual needs the market to decide for them what they should, or should not, think about any given issue, for any reason. You make it seem like everyone else is so simple minded for not wanting to spend their precious time trying to figure out if OS, or CGC are right or wrong, when all they want to do is trust what CGC puts on a label. People have plenty of other things to do than take a day researching when a character appeared first. Wow. More power to you but I don't have money to just throw hundreds, (in some cases, a couple thousand) on a book because CGC told me its a first appearance without making sure myself. Especially these days where info is a computer, tablet...even cellphone away. I guess people really do just buy the label (and the cover). Who cares what's inside. Edited August 18, 2014 by akaSteveRogers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NP_Gresham Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 They are buying CGC comics for a reason. If you are buying CGC for the information on the label you might be making a mistake. I am just hoping they get a better read on the cover price never mind the contents [/url Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverdream Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Exactly. You don't need someone to hold your hand. Do research. Decide for yourself. The market is what it is, and precious few can directly influence it, much less control it. However, no individual needs the market to decide for them what they should, or should not, think about any given issue, for any reason. You make it seem like everyone else is so simple minded for not wanting to spend their precious time trying to figure out if OS, or CGC are right or wrong, when all they want to do is trust what CGC puts on a label. People have plenty of other things to do than take a day researching when a character appeared first. Wow. More power to you but I don't have money to just throw hundreds, (in some cases, a couple thousand) on a book because CGC told me its a first appearance without making sure myself. Especially these days where info is a computer, tablet...even cellphone away. I guess people really do just buy the label (and the cover). Who cares what's inside. You have it mixed up. I do not blindly throw my money at stuff. I am trying to protect people. The fact is, CGC does not put out anywhere near the effort they should when it comes to how they label first appearances. When people pay $50,000 on a CGC 9.8 yet they can get a CGC 9.6 for $8,000 you better believe people are out there buying what the label says. I can do my own research, I have no problem with it, but people are going by what that label says because it should be correct. Period. I think they need to take how they label books more seriously. That's all im saying. Why is that so difficult to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaillant Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I guess people really do just buy the label (and the cover). Who cares what's inside. (thumbs u Precisely. The Kirby Fourth World Jimmy Olsen is a great series, and that cover is very meaningful for a number of reasons which have little to nothing to do with Darkseid showing in the penultimate panel. If one wants Darkseid for the whim of having a "first appearance" this proves to be a (deserved) challenge – quite an impossible task, as Darkseid is underlying the whole Fourth World saga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaillant Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I think they need to take how they label books more seriously. That's all im saying. Why is that so difficult to understand? OK, but "First appearances" are a somewhat devious concept to begin with: why one should own only "first appearances"? It‘s quite an insufficiently_thoughtful_person way to look at collecting books that are – as their name implies – meant to be read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverdream Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I think they need to take how they label books more seriously. That's all im saying. Why is that so difficult to understand? OK, but "First appearances" are a somewhat devious concept to begin with: why one should own only "first appearances"? It‘s quite an insufficiently_thoughtful_person way to look at collecting books that are – as their name implies – meant to be read. I find your comments rather interesting. First, I never said anything at all about collecting only first appearances, where are you getting that from? Second, we are on a forum, where people tend to collect books that they can no longer open and read. Is that " quite idiotic?" as you put it? Are you calling everyone here that collects encapsulated books insufficiently_thoughtful_persons? My entire point was that CGC should create and use a system to label first appearances properly, according to whatever " rules" they would follow. I think it would help, since they seem to not have any real direction on how they label appearances currently. My point is lost to most of you apparently. I will cease discussing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverdream Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) They are buying CGC comics for a reason. If you are buying CGC for the information on the label you might be making a mistake. I am just hoping they get a better read on the cover price never mind the contents [/url They are going to make mistakes, nobody is going to be perfect in quality control. That's not the point. I am talking about an upfront change to how they approach appearances. This could still mislabeled, but to just get it wrong on every label because they don't care, well that's not a mistake, and I think they need to work on that. Edit: Nice variants if they are yours! CGC should pay for those to be reslabbed including shipping IMO. That would only be right. Edited August 18, 2014 by Silverdream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Elijah Snow Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Salivating. Those are awesome. I just got an Amethyst #1 35'er that's a 9.6 (highest graded) that has no denotation. They are buying CGC comics for a reason. If you are buying CGC for the information on the label you might be making a mistake. I am just hoping they get a better read on the cover price never mind the contents [/url They are going to make mistakes, nobody is going to be perfect in quality control. That's not the point. I am talking about an upfront change to how they approach appearances. This could still mislabeled, but to just get it wrong on every label because they don't care, well that's not a mistake, and I think they need to work on that. Edit: Nice variants if they are yours! CGC should pay for those to be reslabbed including shipping IMO. That would only be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aweandlorder Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 ish keeps getting realer ...While only less than a month ago.. ... And sometimes spam title hype words come to reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
