The digital elephant in the room

[HarryRod]

I wanted to bring up a subject here that i don't see discussed very often, but which has been coming up in personal discussions i have had over the last two years and that is piracy of comics in a digital medium, specifically torrents of CBR/CBZ files

 

Is everyone's take on this the same as the music industry? Is it a little more realistic?

I have actually spoken to artists and writers who didnt object to it because it got their work into more hands, which IMHO is definitely a more artistic approach than a financial one.

 

Just wanted to see what the community here thought as it is definitely a huge issue (or has become one since the iPad came out) with the potential to affect sales of a book, and with such small print runs already on alot of books, if 5000 people download rather than buy, then it could really be the difference between cancellation and keeping it going

[DrWatson]

The issues concerning the digital medium are discussed quite frequently on the boards, actually. In fact, MrBedrock has posted several relevant and informative musings on the subject.

 

However, I will mention that your analogy to the music industry is erroneous. The people involved in the music industry are paid based on a percentage of sales prices. No money paid equals no revenue for the musician, writer, record company, and etc. Comic book writers and artists are typically paid to produce the work.

 

The only lost revenue in the comic book scenario is maily restricted to the publishing house.

[dupont2005]

Comic book writers and artists are typically paid to produce the work.

 

The only lost revenue in the comic book scenario is maily restricted to the publishing house.

Unless it's a creator owned comic.

[Davenport]

The only lost revenue in the comic book scenario is mainly restricted to the publishing house.

CBR/CBZ files, if nothing else, help bring pressure for realistic pricing of digital comics. Without that pressure, print-protectionism will govern digital comic pricing for who knows how long. There's zero incentive to adapt without some form of competition.

[HarryRod]

I for one am hoping they go to a subscription based model like the marvel unlimited thing but include new issues as well...I would gladly pay more a month for that kind of service as long as it was available on the iPad

[bb8]

The only lost revenue in the comic book scenario is mainly restricted to the publishing house.

CBR/CBZ files, if nothing else, help bring pressure for realistic pricing of digital comics. Without that pressure, print-protectionism will govern digital comic pricing for who knows how long. There's zero incentive to adapt without some form of competition.

 

It does seem like disproportionate pricing for digital media. Why would it cost nearly as much for the 1's and 0's as for the actual floppy? I think a lot of the "lost sales" due to illegal downloads are sales that wouldn't take place without the free medium anyways.

 

I see both sides, though. Why should we get for free what someone has worked hard to create? Seems there's a middle ground to be found, and I think that should come in the form of lowered digital pricing.

[Buzzetta]

Ever since the Govt crackdown and arrest of Kim Dotcom things have not been the same. I can honestly say I never downloaded a comic book using a torrent. I do find myself buying legit digital comics off the Marvel and DC apps for my iPad to read during my commute.

 

I could see myself buying a 24 issue subscription for $1 an issue for a strictly digital format. Maybe $1.50

[sterlingcomics]

Ever since the Govt crackdown and arrest of Kim Dotcom things have not been the same. I can honestly say I never downloaded a comic book using a torrent. I do find myself buying legit digital comics off the Marvel and DC apps for my iPad to read during my commute.

 

I could see myself buying a 24 issue subscription for $1 an issue for a strictly digital format. Maybe $1.50

 

Yep me too. I refuse to pay print prices for digital downloads, so I download torrents so I can read a comic I've purchased a few copies of.

[dupont2005]

The only lost revenue in the comic book scenario is mainly restricted to the publishing house.

CBR/CBZ files, if nothing else, help bring pressure for realistic pricing of digital comics. Without that pressure, print-protectionism will govern digital comic pricing for who knows how long. There's zero incentive to adapt without some form of competition.

Although I dislike illegal downloading of comics, I see your point here. I also think it's ridiculous that a digital comic costs the same as a print comic. There is no way it costs as much, there is no reason for it to cost as much. People say "But Comixology takes a percentage, they have to pay server costs, they have to pay this and that..."

 

Look, if Marc Hansen can sell a standard length comic on his Blogspot website with zero web hosting costs, distributing the comic via e-mail with no hosting costs, for less than half what a comic from Marvel would cost, something is wrong. Especially since in the long run Marvel will have revenue from the digital, print, and reprint trade of that comic. They are price gouging us, probably to try and save print. Or reap insane profits while they can. Amazon knows how it should be done though. A $60 comic is listed at $37.79 with free shipping, and the Kindle version is $10.09. If Amazon can do it, Comixology can do it, Marvel can do it, DC can do it. No printing costs, no shipping costs, no distribution costs, no retail outlet costs. That's like 75% of the cost of a comic no longer accounted for.

[Hibou]

I guess I'm getting old.

 

If it's not in print (as in PRINT)... it's not going to be for me.

 

I tried the digital comic thing and I hate it. I really do.

 

Comics came from the Depression of the 30's to give children some form of 'escape' and that's forever where I'll be.

 

Mind you, I'm all about MP3's (MP4's..etc) and quality of sound.

 

No one can convince me that a 'digital' copy of a comic is superior to print.

 

And why the rush to digital anyways?

 

I'll meet you in the WC for that one...

[dupont2005]

Ten thousand comics in a storage unit across town, or ten thousand comics in the cloud, accessible on your iPad anytime and anywhere. There are many benefits to digital, I just hope price is among them soon.

[Arkham]

It's an interesting one for me.

 

Many comic stores will sell an individual book for $8 AU each (then shipping adds extra as I live in an area without an LCS). I found a shop in Brissie who will sell an individual book for $5, plus $5 flat rate shipping. So, that's a bit better.

 

Digital costs $4.50 an issue for the big ticket names, $2.99 or even 1.99 for less popular titles.. 0.99 for sales.

 

I end up buying digital to read and physical to store. Slabs to display. And trades of the ones I really love to thumb over endlessly.

 

So I massively over spend I guess.

 

I guess I love comics to the point that I don't want to get illegal copies. But, frankly, it seems an easier concept to just buy a copy with a click via comixology than hunt for a torrent online and sync it to device etc.. And I'm not saying that because I have money to spare. Far from it! Pretty lazy though. Hahaha

 

For me digital is so easy, allows me instant access to stuff I cannot physically buy, is very portable in large quantities and while holding real paper is real nice, the colors do really "pop" on an iPad.

Plus my ridiculously gorgeous missus can't sleep with the light on... iPad is okay though. (couldn't find a "whipped" emoticon)

[passion4comics]

Hunt for a comic on torrents? With one click I can download this weeks newest releases in 3-min. I can download issues (example) ASM 1-600 in one click and 15-min. I just hate reading them on a tablet and rather have something physical in my hand.

[Dr. Balls]

I guess I'm getting old.

 

If it's not in print (as in PRINT)... it's not going to be for me.

 

I tried the digital comic thing and I hate it. I really do.

 

Comics came from the Depression of the 30's to give children some form of 'escape' and that's forever where I'll be.

 

Mind you, I'm all about MP3's (MP4's..etc) and quality of sound.

 

No one can convince me that a 'digital' copy of a comic is superior to print.

 

And why the rush to digital anyways?

 

I'll meet you in the WC for that one...

 

I think the newer published comics are superior to print, in that along with computer coloring, backlit artwork always appears more vibrant, shiny and explosive.

 

I tried TWD on digital and I liked the format, but it wasn't until A vs X #1 when I saw how amazing the color looked that I decided to get rid of my reader runs. In my opinion, the quality of a high resolution, digital download on an iPad is vastly superior to it's printed counterpart.

 

And I am sad to see that era go by the wayside, too. I work in a print-related field and I don't like seeing it go away, but in five to eight years or so, I don't think you're going to be buying print comics anymore.

[Davenport]

No one can convince me that a 'digital' copy of a comic is superior to print.

Comics General is like an encyclopedia of all the problems digital solves. From eBay psycho-transactions to nano-dents and humidity fluctuations. That's the real 'elephant in the room' imho.

 

But aside from that, with modern comics being digitally produced and ported over to print, the digital version is like having a "director's cut". Without color-shifts, muted effects and loss of fine textures with a print-incarnation. Productions experienced the way the creators intended.

[maloney414]

I wanted to bring up a subject here that i don't see discussed very often, but which has been coming up in personal discussions i have had over the last two years and that is piracy of comics in a digital medium, specifically torrents of CBR/CBZ files

 

Is everyone's take on this the same as the music industry? Is it a little more realistic?

I have actually spoken to artists and writers who didnt object to it because it got their work into more hands, which IMHO is definitely a more artistic approach than a financial one.

 

Just wanted to see what the community here thought as it is definitely a huge issue (or has become one since the iPad came out) with the potential to affect sales of a book, and with such small print runs already on alot of books, if 5000 people download rather than buy, then it could really be the difference between cancellation and keeping it going

 

This can be a double edge sword.

 

Some creators hate torrents because it's stealing their work and technically illegal.

 

However, many realize their books would NEVER be read at all without piracy torrents. The small publishers and creator owned comics are struggling to get more readers to give their books a try. Many LCS still don't order any copies of titles like Goon, Hack/Slash, Locke & Key, or The Stuff of Legend to put on the shelf because they don't sell right away. They only order for their pull list subscribers. And these are independent books already identified as good with fan followings. Imagine how many stores ignore new independent comics just starting. Instead they pack their shelves with Marvel and DC.

 

In this economy many people are buying on a budget, so that limits what they buy. So they usually stick to continuing their Marvel & DC runs of comics they've been collecting for years and years. Very tough to get them to drop a title they've been blindly collecting for years to try something non-mainstream. Enter the torrents. People can try things for free, and then get hooked. Then maybe they start buying and collecting that new title.

 

The catch of course is that people need to buy the comics they try and like to support those creators. If everyone only downloaded torrents and no one buys them, the small press guys still go out of business.

 

[JediTrix]

Yep me too. I refuse to pay print prices for digital downloads, so I download torrents so I can read a comic I've purchased a few copies of.

 

Same here. I buy all of my comics via DCBS, but I download them every Wed and read them on my iPad. I love having the iPad loaded up with lots of titles and issues so I can read whatever I'm in the mood for without having to dig through long boxes or keep a light on in the bed. My reading has probably doubled since I got an iPad and started downloading the cbr/cbz files. And just to stress again, I only download what I pay for in print.

[HarryRod]

Yep me too. I refuse to pay print prices for digital downloads, so I download torrents so I can read a comic I've purchased a few copies of.

 

Same here. I buy all of my comics via DCBS, but I download them every Wed and read them on my iPad. I love having the iPad loaded up with lots of titles and issues so I can read whatever I'm in the mood for without having to dig through long boxes or keep a light on in the bed. My reading has probably doubled since I got an iPad and started downloading the cbr/cbz files. And just to stress again, I only download what I pay for in print.

 

I am the same way, but one thing sticks in my head. I know that my LCS gets a kickback from Marvel titles that are redeemed digitally, so i have been making sure to redeem those marvel tities that have digital codes attached.

[ComicConnoisseur]

No one can convince me that a 'digital' copy of a comic is superior to print.

Comics General is like an encyclopedia of all the problems digital solves. From eBay psycho-transactions to nano-dents and humidity fluctuations. That's the real 'elephant in the room' imho.

 

But aside from that, with modern comics being digitally produced and ported over to print, the digital version is like having a "director's cut". Without color-shifts, muted effects and loss of fine textures with a print-incarnation. Productions experienced the way the creators intended.

 

+1

[dgarthwaite-migration]

In all honesty, the one thing people are forgetting is that the prices we have paid for music and printed material is elevated BECAUSE of the logistics and technical burdens in getting them to us in the form of vinyl, CD or full color printed format. When you remove the technical burdens, there is nothing to artificially inflate the value of the product and it should be devalued proportionately. There are millions of excellent singers, thousands of composers, and thousands of artists which never had an opportunity to sell us their work because the record companies and publishers held tight control over who had the opportunity to get a shot at fame and success. You and I had no way to go out and produce a vinyl record of our own, so record companies could charge whatever they want. Farmers never had the prices protected on the commodities they've sold if their peers had a prosperous harvest. Technology and realities of a free market economy are just leveling the playing field and it's affecting publishers now. People passed music around for free before MP3 existed. Cassette mix tapes were everywhere when I was growing up. It's just easier now. Technology has made the product worthless and only the people who want to adhere to the fading distribution model of the past think that artists are owed a standard of living. I'm not saying I like the idea of an artist not making an income off of his art. Farmers dealt with that for years. It's going to be even harder for new creators to make money off of their work if everything is digitally available forever. It's going to get worse.

 

DG