Am I the only one that noticed this Superman #149 9.6 that sold for 22 x guide?!

[Aman619]

tup.. these huge multiples for commons always sadden me. What are people thinking??? Even if you are building top of census runs, but at what cost???

[joe_collector]

yeah... JC allows that the earliest SA Marvels (pre-1963) are harder to find in HG. But finds it inconceivable that DCs from 1956 to 1961 ( widely considered BEFORE the beginning of the organized groundswell of comics collecting) and then 1961 tp 1963 are scarce in HG...

 

I'm only saying that anyone using the terms RARE and SCARCE concerning any 1960's pop collectible should be laughed off the stage. Those are terms with real meaning and usage in the antique and collectible fields, and aren't just tossed around.

 

You'll notice that Donut was very careful in the terms he used, and as such, I don't disagree with his sentiments.

[sterlingcomics]

Where's LucyBob? I wonder how well she is doing on her high grade Archie CGC hunt...

[Aman619]

okay, but if we are gonna have to qualify all our terms here when our meaning is OBVIOUS.... well, its gonna get tedious. I think we're all on the same page as to rare and scarce when t comes to the comics we love to talk about. Theres no reason to believe that less populat DC from 3 to 5 years earlier than comparable Marvels will end up be LESS available than the Marvels. Not nonesistent. or just one copy here or there... just significantly harder to obtain than Marvels.

[underthebigw]

Hey, to quote my wife, "we're both right".

 

I think everyone here agrees that Marvels from this period are much more plentiful in HG than DC's. Yet, are the DC's truly rare or scarce in HG, in terms of sheer numbers that exist? I doubt it. Do they turn up in the market at all? Rarely. These last two facts are not mutually exclusive.

 

I don't know if FD remembers it, but we were witness to a fairly large orignal owner collection that showed up at the Tyson's show over the span of 3 years ( the other dealers raped the guy. It was really sad--I lost a lot of respect for some of my favorite dealers as they sweet-talked the owner out of true NM and NM+ late 50's and early 60's DC's for 50% of guide). Like many collectors, the owner typified the first true collectors of the 1960's. Marvel might have had more fans, but there were definitely more true collectors of DC books in the 1960's. If you were 30 or 40 or 50 years old at this time, what would you collect--the characters of your youth or some goofy Marvel "Pop-Art" Production? And many of these collections have still never changed hands. I think it's fair to say we really have no idea how many early Silver DC HG books are out there.

[LordRahl]

I feel like there should be X-Files music playing through this thread. The high grade silver DC's are OUT THERE! BTW, dictionary definition of

scarce; available in quantities that are too small to meet the demand for it

rare; not occuring or found very often

I don't know about anyone else but those sound like appropriate adjectives, even though I admittedly know NOTHING about the availability of early silver DCs.

[shadroch]

okay, but if we are gonna have to qualify all our terms here when our meaning is OBVIOUS.... well, its gonna get tedious. I think we're all on the same page as to rare and scarce when t comes to the comics we love to talk about. Theres no reason to believe that less populat DC from 3 to 5 years earlier than comparable Marvels will end up be LESS available than the Marvels. Not nonesistent. or just one copy here or there... just significantly harder to obtain than Marvels.

 

 

According to Overstreet:

RARE-10 to 20 copies estimated to exist

Scarce-20 to 100 estimated to exist.

Given the current CGC census figures,many books caan increase in the census tenfold and still be considered scarce.Does anyone have any reason whatsoever to believe there are over 100 9.4 Adventure 247s or Showcase 4s out there? If not,then the book is rightfully considered scarce.As I don't believe there are even 20 of these books,I'll consider them rare until proven otherwise.

[joe_collector]

100 9.4 Adventure 247s or Showcase 4s out there? If not,then the book is rightfully considered scarce.As I don't believe there are even 20 of these books,I'll consider them rare until proven otherwise.

 

As usual, in a conversation about ALL early-60's DC books, the needledicks trot out the hyper-keys to prove a point.

[shadroch]

100 9.4 Adventure 247s or Showcase 4s out there? If not,then the book is rightfully considered scarce.As I don't believe there are even 20 of these books,I'll consider them rare until proven otherwise.

 

As usual, in a conversation about ALL early-60's DC books, the needledicks trot out the hyper-keys to prove a point.

 

Ok,Joe,

I think the hyper-keys would be the ones most likely to appear in the census.Why don't you randomly pick any three Adventures from 210 to 260, three more Showcases,and throw in any three random Worlds Finest and tell us why these books are so unrepresented in the census. Also please tell us that Adventure 210 is worth so much because its the first appearence of Krpto,not because it simply doesn't exist in HG. Why was it that in the 80s when this book guided for around $100,no one would/could find a copy even when Billy Mumy put $1000 bounty just for someone showing him one.Why isn't there a single 9.2 or better slabbed copy of this book?

If these don't fit OVERSTREETS definitions of rare and scarce,which books do?

[joe_collector]

It just occured to me, that because I only collect Marvel, the DC speculators can believe anything they want and buy up all the RARE 1960's DC comics.

[tth2]

Cool, I just realized that a Marvel thread has been hijacked by DC, for a change! Well done, Namisgr and aman!

 

Now when have I started a Marvel thread? This thread started with the Supes #149 auction!

 

Oops, I thought it said Spiderman #149!

[tth2]

What is amusing to me is the know-it-all attitude from Joe. Here's a hint - between myself, shadroch, tth2, burntboy, namisgr, aman and others, we kind of know what's going on in the back issue DC market. There simply isn't a lot of high grade DCs.

 

Here's another hint on how hard these books are to find in high grade: when 9.4 or better copies DO appear, it's often the BSD dealers bidding against each other in a frenzy and driving the prices up into record-breaking realms. I think they have a pretty good idea how rarely these books appear. Put another way, they don't act the same way when it comes to Marvels, even though Marvels are their bread and butter (maybe if a FF 3 or IH 1 came along, but even then...).

 

Case in point, the early Flash's and GLs sold by Ronnie Murry on eBay several years ago: the guys driving the prices up to unimaginable multiples at the very end were PCE, Comiclink and Dizneyart. Another case in point, the winner of the 9.2 JLA #1 and 9.2 Flash 105 on Heritage in April was a BSD dealer, and the underbidder of the 9.4 B&B #28 was a BSD dealer. When a 9.4 JLA #9 was sold on eBay relatively recently, the underbidder was PCE, and one of the final bidders was Linmoth. These people did not become BSD dealers by consistently overpaying for books!

[tth2]

1X 2 = 2! 2, those aren't rare at all!!!

 

Or how about 0 X 2?

[FlyingDonut]

Here are 10 random DCs from 1956-1961. I will bet anybody that in five years, there will be fewer than 20 copies of any of these books in CGC 9.4 NM or above (thereby remaining "Scarce" in Overstreet terms).

 

Action Comics 269 (currently highest CGC is a single copy 9.0)

Adventure Comics 230 (single copy 9.2)

Batman 106 (single copy 9.0)

Detective Comics 281 (single copy 9.0)

Green Lantern 3 (single copy 9.2)

Flash 112 (single copy 9.0)

Sugar and Spike 21 (single copy 8.5)

Superboy 85 (2 9.0s)

Superman 124 (single copy 8.5)

World's Finest 99 (2 9.0s)

[tth2]

It just occured to me, that because I only collect Marvel, the DC speculators can believe anything they want and buy up all the RARE 1960's DC comics.

 

Cool, I'm a speculator now! What does a guy have to do around here to be considered a true collector?

 

JC, like I said, stick to your knitting. You actually know a helluva lot about BA and moderns, and your analysis of the trends in those markets is usually worthwhile reading.

[tth2]

Here are 10 random DCs from 1956-1961. I will bet anybody that in five years, there will be fewer than 20 copies of any of these books in CGC 9.4 NM or above (thereby remaining "Scarce" in Overstreet terms).

 

Action Comics 269 (currently highest CGC is a single copy 9.0)

Adventure Comics 230 (single copy 9.2)

Batman 106 (single copy 9.0)

Detective Comics 281 (single copy 9.0)

Green Lantern 3 (single copy 9.2)

Flash 112 (single copy 9.0)

Sugar and Spike 21 (single copy 8.5)

Superboy 85 (2 9.0s)

Superman 124 (single copy 8.5)

World's Finest 99 (2 9.0s)

 

Hell, I'd say less than 10 copies in 9.4 or above, unless CGC radically changes its grading standards.

[PovertyRow]

(thereby remaining "Scarce" in Overstreet terms)

 

Interesting play there! 20 DOES qualify as Scarce for total copies known. So perhaps one COULD say that 20 in 9.4 or higher would be Scarce for the grade.

 

But if you want to go that route you do yourself a disservice, as scarce is 20-100. Should be RARE - up to 20 copies known.

 

But Overstreet HAS dropped the ball on this one. 20 is both the top end for Rare and the bottom end for Scarce! Are you litening, Mister Blumberg? Arnold? Arnie? Arn?

[Aman619]

Here are 10 random DCs from 1956-1961. I will bet anybody that in five years, there will be fewer than 20 copies of any of these books in CGC 9.4 NM or above (thereby remaining "Scarce" in Overstreet terms).

 

Action Comics 269 (currently highest CGC is a single copy 9.0)

Adventure Comics 230 (single copy 9.2)

Batman 106 (single copy 9.0)

Detective Comics 281 (single copy 9.0)

Green Lantern 3 (single copy 9.2)

Flash 112 (single copy 9.0)

Sugar and Spike 21 (single copy 8.5)

Superboy 85 (2 9.0s)

Superman 124 (single copy 8.5)

World's Finest 99 (2 9.0s)

 

Hell, I'd say less than 10 copies in 9.4 or above, unless CGC radically changes its grading standards.

 

I agree. but, didnt Overstreet use scarce to mean less than 20 copies IN ALL GRADES?? not just high grade?

[PovertyRow]

I agree. but, didnt Overstreet use scarce to mean less than 20 copies IN ALL GRADES?? not just high grade?

 

See my post above yours, plagiarist!!!

 

 

 

 

 

::freaking freaking typo edit::

[Aman619]

Like many collectors, the owner typified the first true collectors of the 1960's. Marvel might have had more fans, but there were definitely more true collectors of DC books in the 1960's. If you were 30 or 40 or 50 years old at this time, what would you collect--the characters of your youth or some goofy Marvel "Pop-Art" Production? And many of these collections have still never changed hands. I think it's fair to say we really have no idea how many early Silver DC HG books are out there.

 

thats a good point. Im not old enough to be in the category you are talking about. But, I was young in the 50s and weaned on Superman and Batman etc. And all through the 60s I was still basically a DC guy. I read and collected the Marvels each week, and really liked Spidey, FF and th ereat, but slowly tired of them while still buying each new issue. I always stayed a DC fan at heart.

 

But having said that, I dont agree that this means I collected my DCs in any better shape than my Marvels. Back then we didnt think that way. Perhaps were I ten years older as you describe, in my 20s or 30s in 1956, I would have read them once carefully and stored them well as I myself have done as I got older in the 70s and 80s.

 

But again for your argument to work, that there are a LOT of these guys back then doing this, well, I dunno. I dont think there were all that many 30 year old comic collectors in 1960.... do you? Maybe they were the same teenagers who quit reading comics in the 50s after the Senate hearings led to the death of all "interesting/non-kid's funny books" comics - - and came back to comics as the superheroes came back. That might work!