Do speculators make this hobby better or worse?

[oakman29]

Peter panzerfaust has garnered cult status...it's no longer about a tv show. Though that was certainly a launching point. Print run on #1 is lower than Chew #1 and #2 is even lower. And there's people buying it that have actually read the comic, and, enjoy it.

No 1 year old comic is worth over $400 for a 9.8. It's tv hype.

This will keep happening with every book that a network is sniffing around until the bottom falls out of the market and people think how could I have been so deluded to think 'insert short run image comic' could be worth so much so soon

I'm still mad about The Walking Dead #1s prices.I mean I want one,but I sure as hell don't want to pay a grand to get it.

Why do you want one?

I like the run,and wish I had gotten on it from the start.There's just so many books that are more important to get at this point.

I liked the book, but no interest in collecting it.

I just hate when I had an opportunity to grab it when it was on the shelf at my LCS,and I didn't pick it up when new.It's one of those OCD things.

[comicwiz]

On Iron Man 55, it's been a sleeper key forever. Collectors have always complained about how tough a book it is to find in high grade - WAY before Thanos appeared in the Avengers.

 

I don't do shows like I did in the past, but I'd sooner consider Iron Man 55 a Bronze-Age key before Daredevil 131, ASM 129, Marvel Spotlight 5, WBN 32, and pretty much any 2nd/3rd tier character introduction. And yet, I'd never see Iron Man 55 at shows. Never.

 

Iron Man 55 is also recent memory, but a lot of people seem to be ignoring the gains made by AF 15. Justified? I guess it depends on whether you have one or not, but there is no way anyone is going to convince me an apparent VF 8.0 went from being a $3K book to a $10K book in the span of 3 years.

 

What do you account for the way Our Army at War 83 shot up in the period of a year?

 

Maybe specs are to blame, but these are still key books that have the track record to prove they've been on collectors radars with reason, and while the hype may have pushed them to a higher ground, I don't see speculation as the only reason they've enjoyed sustained value increases.

[The-Collector]

Peter panzerfaust has garnered cult status...it's no longer about a tv show. Though that was certainly a launching point. Print run on #1 is lower than Chew #1 and #2 is even lower. And there's people buying it that have actually read the comic, and, enjoy it.

No 1 year old comic is worth over $400 for a 9.8. It's tv hype.

This will keep happening with every book that a network is sniffing around until the bottom falls out of the market and people think how could I have been so deluded to think 'insert short run image comic' could be worth so much so soon

I'm still mad about The Walking Dead #1s prices.I mean I want one,but I sure as hell don't want to pay a grand to get it.

Why do you want one?

I like the run,and wish I had gotten on it from the start.There's just so many books that are more important to get at this point.

I liked the book, but no interest in collecting it.

 

It seems anyone can make money on these hot titles. I have a few moderns I have purchased in the past three years that are now worth 3-10 times cover and higher and I don't buy many modem books.

 

So at this point it is mostly dumb luck and you don't even need much of that because so many books are hyped.

 

Joe Kennedy once sold all his stock after recieveing a stock tip from the boy who shines his shoes when asked why he replied:

 

 

“”You know it's time to sell when shoeshine boys give you stock tips. This bull market is over.

—[1]

 

 

[Qiky]

That's a great comparison to the market now. When it will crash is anyones guess but when it does that's when I'll buy the moderns I've enjoyed but missed out on when they came out.

WD has allot to answer for, so many people are willing to pay $400 for a modern comic now just because they can justify it with 'Look what happened with WD I don't want to miss out, rather pay $400 now instead of $2000 tomorrow'

[Mishmashman]

That's a great comparison to the market now. When it will crash is anyones guess but when it does that's when I'll buy the moderns I've enjoyed but missed out on when they came out.

WD has allot to answer for, so many people are willing to pay $400 for a modern comic now just because they can justify it with 'Look what happened with WD I don't want to miss out, rather pay $400 now instead of $2000 tomorrow'

 

It'll burst a bit when Chew gets canceled, when Panzerfaust never makes it to tv, and when all the clowns who bought ASM 700 for hundreds of dollars realize all their comics are good for is swatting flies. I have a love hate relationship with speculators. On the one hand, I personally speculate on certain books to make a quick flip, with books like ASM 700. So I love them bc they present a profitable market. On the other, I hate them bc they make buying some books I'd like to get at a reasonable price impossible.

[accessndx]

You seem fairly convinced the market is going to implode at some point. I've just got one thing to say: the Avengers movie made over $1 billion dollars. That is truly unprecedented in every category across the board.

 

There's no way that didn't wake up the industry a bit, and it has to have ramifications that will last for decades with regards to studios actively searching for material that could potentially create the same windfall.

 

That means that folks will be delving into the comic vaults for untapped potential for quite some time.

 

So for every project that gets cancelled there will be one that will inevitably make it to the small or big screen. Hence the speculation wheel will continue to spin (at least as long as Hollywood sees $ to be made).

 

 

[paperheart]

You seem fairly convinced the market is going to implode at some point. I've just got one thing to say: the Avengers movie made over $1 billion dollars. That is truly unprecedented in every category across the board.

 

There's no way that didn't wake up the industry a bit, and it has to have ramifications that will last for decades with regards to studios actively searching for material that could potentially create the same windfall.

 

That means that folks will be delving into the comic vaults for untapped potential for quite some time.

 

So for every project that gets cancelled there will be one that will inevitably make it to the small or big screen. Hence the speculation wheel will continue to spin (at least as long as Hollywood sees $ to be made).

 

 

Avengers had 40 years of continuity and four lead in movies that cost $600mm to produce. Chew has 30 issues of a comic book that 99.9% of the population has never heard of. Drawing parallels between the two seems like a dubious effort.

[accessndx]

Avengers had 40 years of continuity and four lead in movies that cost $600mm to produce. Chew has 30 issues of a comic book that 99.9% of the population has never heard of. Drawing parallels between the two seems like a dubious effort.

 

Who said anything about Chew specifically? All I said in recap essentially was that Hollywood itself is speculating.....they appear to be actively looking for material culled from comics. Some properties have already been solicited and are in various stages of discussion or work towards development. We're all aware of which properties are seemingly on the horizon. That alone makes it a worthwhile analogy.

 

However, you're 100% correct in your assertion that there were a ton of lead in movies and that there's a bazillion years of comics behind the Avengers....

although that doesn't discount the validity of anything I stated.

 

There was a time where nobody knew what WD was either. So your commentary about nobody having heard of Chew is irrelevant. Nobody heard about a plethora of things before they hit the mainstream.

[Buzzetta]

I make this hobby worse.

[Hado]

I make this hobby worse.

Chew makes this hobby worse.

[Prince Namor]

All of those big budget Batman movies in the 90's didn't keep the comic market from crashing at the time.

[The-Collector]

I make this hobby worse.

Chew makes this hobby worse.

 

Not sure if serious. But if you are I agree, I read the first ten issues and they were bad. Bad art, bad coloring and bad storytelling.

[Hado]

I make this hobby worse.

Chew makes this hobby worse.

 

Not sure if serious. But if you are I agree, I read the first ten issues and they were bad. Bad art, bad coloring and bad storytelling.

Totally serious, this was recommended to us by the nice lady at our local LCS, I almost made her buy back the first trade.

[dupont2005]

You seem fairly convinced the market is going to implode at some point. I've just got one thing to say: the Avengers movie made over $1 billion dollars. That is truly unprecedented in every category across the board.

 

There's no way that didn't wake up the industry a bit, and it has to have ramifications that will last for decades with regards to studios actively searching for material that could potentially create the same windfall.

 

That means that folks will be delving into the comic vaults for untapped potential for quite some time.

 

So for every project that gets cancelled there will be one that will inevitably make it to the small or big screen. Hence the speculation wheel will continue to spin (at least as long as Hollywood sees $ to be made).

 

Has this had any effect on actual sales of Avengers comics though?

[Beige]

My thoughts?

 

If I have a bunch of Peter Panzerfaust #1 that I bought for cover,then speculation rules.

 

If I don't have a single one,Its totally preposterous that this comic is worth $500.

 

No-one outside these boards care what any of us think.

 

If someone wants to pay $500 for a 9.8 copy of Peter Panzerfaust #1 - then thats what its worth.

 

We can grumble all we like,but if a new book is worth more than a GA funny book that we have had for 50 years,then tough.

 

PP is worth what its worth,because people are willing to pay it.

 

When they aren't, the next 'hot thing' - which seems to be Blackacre for some god-only-knows-reason comes into play.

 

Is it how things should be?

 

I really don't think its up to us,no matter how dedicated a collector any of us may be ,to come down on one section of the comic book market,just because it doesn't seem fair.

 

Thats what it seems to boil down to - my old funny book is worth less than your new funny book....and I don't like it.

 

Last thing I'll say, is that most flippers tend to roll any profits into GA/SA/BA keys....so thats got to be good for all,yes?

 

Keeping the money in the hobby.

 

[rjrjr]

You seem fairly convinced the market is going to implode at some point. I've just got one thing to say: the Avengers movie made over $1 billion dollars. That is truly unprecedented in every category across the board.

 

There's no way that didn't wake up the industry a bit, and it has to have ramifications that will last for decades with regards to studios actively searching for material that could potentially create the same windfall.

 

That means that folks will be delving into the comic vaults for untapped potential for quite some time.

 

So for every project that gets cancelled there will be one that will inevitably make it to the small or big screen. Hence the speculation wheel will continue to spin (at least as long as Hollywood sees $ to be made).

 

 

Batman The Dark Knight Rises made over $1 billion too.

 

 

[rjrjr]

I make this hobby worse.

Chew makes this hobby worse.

 

Not sure if serious. But if you are I agree, I read the first ten issues and they were bad. Bad art, bad coloring and bad storytelling.

 

Funny, I have the same opinion of Chew, but there are people that love the book.

[r100comics]

On Iron Man 55, it's been a sleeper key forever. Collectors have always complained about how tough a book it is to find in high grade - WAY before Thanos appeared in the Avengers.

 

I don't do shows like I did in the past, but I'd sooner consider Iron Man 55 a Bronze-Age key before Daredevil 131, ASM 129, Marvel Spotlight 5, WBN 32, and pretty much any 2nd/3rd tier character introduction. And yet, I'd never see Iron Man 55 at shows. Never.

 

Iron Man 55 is also recent memory, but a lot of people seem to be ignoring the gains made by AF 15. Justified? I guess it depends on whether you have one or not, but there is no way anyone is going to convince me an apparent VF 8.0 went from being a $3K book to a $10K book in the span of 3 years.

 

What do you account for the way Our Army at War 83 shot up in the period of a year?

 

Maybe specs are to blame, but these are still key books that have the track record to prove they've been on collectors radars with reason, and while the hype may have pushed them to a higher ground, I don't see speculation as the only reason they've enjoyed sustained value increases.

 

I asked myself the same question when I sold my 6.5 for $2.5k in 2011, after it had been $2.5k since CGC began, only to see it triple in value in the following 6 months.

 

How many times can one person be on the wrong side of the upswing ?

 

 

 

[The-Collector]

On Iron Man 55, it's been a sleeper key forever. Collectors have always complained about how tough a book it is to find in high grade - WAY before Thanos appeared in the Avengers.

 

I don't do shows like I did in the past, but I'd sooner consider Iron Man 55 a Bronze-Age key before Daredevil 131, ASM 129, Marvel Spotlight 5, WBN 32, and pretty much any 2nd/3rd tier character introduction. And yet, I'd never see Iron Man 55 at shows. Never.

 

Iron Man 55 is also recent memory, but a lot of people seem to be ignoring the gains made by AF 15. Justified? I guess it depends on whether you have one or not, but there is no way anyone is going to convince me an apparent VF 8.0 went from being a $3K book to a $10K book in the span of 3 years.

 

What do you account for the way Our Army at War 83 shot up in the period of a year?

 

Maybe specs are to blame, but these are still key books that have the track record to prove they've been on collectors radars with reason, and while the hype may have pushed them to a higher ground, I don't see speculation as the only reason they've enjoyed sustained value increases.

 

I asked myself the same question when I sold my 6.5 for $2.5k in 2011, after it had been $2.5k since CGC began, only to see it triple in value in the following 6 months.

 

How many times can one person be on the wrong side of the upswing ?

 

 

 

I dont have anything of substance to say about Comicwiz's argument I only wish to add that I would not lump The punisher in with Ghost Rider, Elektra and Moonknight.

[Conan_Aficionado]

I don't know and I don't care, speculators only hurt other speculators who don't know how to speculate.