Batgirl 19 with a bit of a surprise

[miraclemet]

The Batgirl book seems different to me. This is a main stream super hero book. Sure it is about a girl, but it is a hero book first and foremost. Just seems very contrived and agenda driven, instead of a natural part of any storyline.

 

I don't know, and don't know why it bothers me, as I don't buy new comics anymore anyway. I just hate that everything has to be agenda driven anymore. I guess I am just longing for the comics and innocence of my youth, and wishing my kids could grow up in that same type of world that I did.

An honest question then. Was it 'agenda driven' when DC and Marvel writers first introduced black supporting characters into mainstream superhero books?

 

 

Based on the reading in Marvel Comics the Untold story, yes, yes it was.

[FlyingDonut]

Interesting interview with Gail Simone about the character and what Simone is doing with her in the comic.

[fantastic_four]

I just think it's being done for a specific audience, much like the titillating artwork mentioned earlier is done for the specific audience you mention.

 

I bet Stan Lee's reason for introducing T'Challa is similar to or possibly exactly the same as the Batgirl 19's author's purpose in introducing this transgendered character, that they both had the agenda of opening people's minds.

 

I'll bet the agenda of increasing sales probably had something to do with it as well. I'm quite sure that adding a transgender character to Batgirl will not push readers away as Gail Simone has been pretty consistent on what she's putting in the book. DC isn't stupid - they wouldn't have greenlit the new character if they didn't think it would show a positive increase in sales.

 

Yea, I bet Stan or Martin Goodman had no reason to think the Black Panther would increase sales. But these guys were blazed the trail that today's execs have learned from.

 

Can anyone think of a similar controversial introduction of a minority in comics prior to Fantastic Four #52? I bet there were a few, but none are jumping to mind. The big difference between T'Challa and this girl (or guy, depending upon how far through the process she/he is ) is that black characters had appeared in comics before, just never in a heroic role. This character isn't a hero that I can tell, just Gordon's roommate. Unless she is going to play Huntress since she does have the same hair as Huntress has.

[jools&jim]

 

I bet Stan Lee's reason for introducing T'Challa is similar to or possibly exactly the same as the Batgirl 19's author's purpose in introducing this transgendered character, that they both had the agenda of opening people's minds.

 

My guess is that many (if not all) of the people who read this title, and who read modern super-hero comics in general (i.e., adult comic shop patrons), had their minds "opened" about LGBT sexuality via other sources--movies, TV, fiction, the nightly news, or from personal experience--long before this blip appeared on our cultural radar.

 

The difference between today's "issues driven" storylines and what Stan, et al., were doing back in the '60s and '70s is that, back then, mainstream comics were available EVERYWHERE, and were consumed by a truly diverse readership: kids of all races, adults, college students, hippies, soldiers, etc., etc. Not so much today.

 

At best, the Batgirl writers are preaching to the choir; at worst, they run the risk--if you can call it that--of alienating people who don't, and won't, read modern comic books anyway, and who would never have set foot in a comic book store in the first place.

 

So I agree...no downside, really. But no grandiose socio-cultural benefits, either, as much as we may wish it were so...

 

 

 

 

[Point Five]

Can anyone think of a similar controversial introduction of a minority in comics prior to Fantastic Four #52? I bet there were a few, but none are jumping to mind.

Not quite what you're asking for, but just to put it out there, EC got some angry letters in the 1950s for writing stories about racism and discrimination towards blacks, Hispanics, etc in their Shock Suspenstories title. The minority characters were not recurring though.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

Can anyone think of a similar controversial introduction of a minority in comics prior to Fantastic Four #52? I bet there were a few, but none are jumping to mind.

Not quite what you're asking for, but just to put it out there, EC got some angry letters in the 1950s for writing stories about racism and discrimination towards blacks, Hispanics, etc in their Shock Suspenstories title. The minority characters were not recurring though.

 

Definitely similar in that it was a likely attempt to open people's minds.

 

Was Wonder Woman the first female superhero, or were there some before her?

[comickid84]

Confused as to what the "agenda" is here?

 

Haven't comics always been a means of reflecting social trends of the time? The 40's reflected our engagement in WWII, the 50's emerging fears regarding atomic war, the 60's/70's the sexual revolution, women's lib, civil rights, etc. Today, more publishers are embracing inclusion of LGBT characters because society is beginning to accept these people as equals.

 

If the "agenda" here is tolerance and acceptance, serve it up please.

[miraclemet]

 

I'll bet the agenda of increasing sales probably had something to do with it as well. I'm quite sure that adding a transgender character to Batgirl will not push readers away as Gail Simone has been pretty consistent on what she's putting in the book. DC isn't stupid - they wouldn't have greenlit the new character if they didn't think it would show a positive increase in sales.

 

She's not a new character, she's Batgirls roommate. She's been around since the relaunch (or shortly after when Barbara was looking for a roomate. Also she's been dating Barbara's brother.

 

Looking at the pages on the link it makes sense how/why it was revealed. Barbara and Alysia are sharing secrets, or at least parts of their life that they hadnt revealed to each other yet. Barbara reveals her past in a wheelchair and her run in with the Joker (not revealing she's Batgirl yet). So Alysia reveals the part of herself that she hadnt revealed.

 

Maybe Gail thought that it was time to deepen the relationship between Barbara and Alysia since she didn't have much in the way of friends (at least as Barbara). I would imagine maybe down the road there might be a discovery by Alysia that Barbara is Batgirl and Alysia feels betrayed since she revealed her deepest secret, while Barbara held onto hers.

 

I already had Bargirl #19 preordered, and look forward to reading it just like I do every month.

[conditionfreak]

The first "black" hero in comics, might have been "Red Mask" in Best Comics #1, from 1939.

 

But he was changed to be white, a couple of issues later.

[miraclemet]

'Forced scenarios'?

 

Somebody is writing this, therefore everything is 'forced'.

Maybe "artificial" or "strained" would've been a better choice of words than "forced".

 

Could be the two pages accompanying the article. Barbara Gordon is all blah blah Joker-shot-me, paralysis, her brother, some cat...

 

Response: "I'm transgender, Barbara."

 

Seemed... forced.

 

Totally forced imho. A big strrrrrrrrrrrrrretch to garnish some press, some sales, some being we are edgy pioneering writers over here.

 

As for "accurately portraying the make-up of of our general population"............According to the Williams Institute of the UCLA School of Law, in America - April 2011 there were around 0.3% Americans were transgender.

So is percent of a percent enough to justify a decent sample our general population? Not imho, but doesn't matter.

 

 

maybe wait to judge until you read the book. or the article about how Gail went to Dido with the plot point.

 

Are you suggesting that Gail Simone included the plot point to try and boost sales?

 

Read the pages, it is a sensible reveal. Barbara shares with her roomate (who was a new person to her as of issue #1, so theyve been growing closer over the last 19 issues) her time in a wheelchair and her trauma with the Joker. Barbara's reveal of her "secret" (or at least something she keeps relatively private) leads to Alysia's reveal of her "secret". Seems perfectly organic in the growth of a roommate relationship moving from two people sharing an apartment, to friends who are close.

 

Im sure marketing grabbed the plot point as a good way to generate buzz and publicity, but that's what marketing departments do. I dont think Gail/Dan were thinking "how can we make this book more popular"...

 

Also dont put to much stock in those numbers, they are based on the number of reported cases of Gender Identity Disorder and/or receiving treatment/counseling at gender clinics, which only represent part of the population (who either feel the need for counseling/support and/or have access to this type of support).

[krighton]

Seriously though...if a girl found out her girl roommate was really a guy or used to be a guy..there would be an azz kicking in their future. I don't think that is something you hide....I'm guessing there is no way bat girl says find a new place to live. You would have to think in reality that might happen.

[Davenport]

That sound you hear is Dale's head exploding.

Wolverine has a thing for longswords? Who knew.

 

[budsbundy]

I've worked with two transgendered male-to-female women, and I live in the fairly-conservative Southern state of Virginia. One I knew used to be a man within about 0.3 seconds of seeing her. I'm vaguely fascinated by the men who choose to do it who were born with fairly feminine (i.e. small) frames to begin with, but if you were born 6' and 180 pounds like this guy was, you're only ever going to look like a REALLY ugly girl. Not because of the height, but the density of your bones--it was the width of the legs, wrists, and ankles that immediately screamed "WTF?" to me when I saw my transgendered co-worker for the first time. You'd have to be built like a D.J. Qualls (pic below) at only around 120 pounds to be 6' and pull off a convincing transgender transition...it'd be tough to tell Qualls used to be a man if he switched genders.

 

That guy in the crying game really looked like a woman.

Plus when he was in Stargate I remember wondering the whole time if that was a man or a woman, I couldn't tell.

 

I waited tables at a place where we had a busboy(girl actually) who looked so much like a guy that someone from one of my tables would ask me at least once a week if that was a girl or a boy, even up close it was super hard to tell, she had a mullet, flat chested, and very androgynous, she could pass for a guy waaayyyy easier then a girl.

[miraclemet]

Seriously though...if a girl found out her girl roommate was really a guy or used to be a guy..there would be an azz kicking in their future.

 

 

Based on all the 80s comedic movies I've seen involving this type of deception there would nothing but a few hours of hijinks followed by an easily digestable resolution....

 

Simone has also noted that Alysia is bi-sexual, should she be expecting a curbing from Batgirl in Issue #20?

 

ok it deserves another one.

[miraclemet]

This gif seemed appropriate for where this thread may be headed...

 

[krighton]

The whole topic is one giant face palm....how about good reading for once....shock value is all it is... bat girl was deceived and she might be ticked off about it...but she won't be

[fantastic_four]

The whole topic is one giant face palm....how about good reading for once....shock value is all it is...

 

If the very existence of a transgendered person is enough to shock someone, then they're in need of a shocking. For the people who are familiar with it, then it's either interesting or just a part of the story that blends into the background.

[miraclemet]

The whole topic is one giant face palm....how about good reading for once....shock value is all it is... bat girl was deceived and she might be ticked off about it...but she won't be

 

You can see that Gail is setting up a parallel between Barbara's secret life as Batgirl (which is still secret), and Alysia's willingness to share her own "secrets", right? You see what the writer is doing here? Its not for shock value at all, but for those who are not comfortable with the topic (and are therefore shocked) they cant see what is really happening on the pages of the book, and extrapolate the interesting dynamic this level of openness creates between Barbara and Alysia?

 

 

[tabcom]

Political correctness is invading comics,this is a travesty.

 

Why is it 'political correctness' to accurately portray the make-up of our general population?

 

Considering there is not one other transgendered character in the whole of the Marvel & DC stable, I'd say the publishers have been failing to reflect their readership for a very long time.

I couldn't agree less with this statement.

 

According to New York Times, a leading crusader of liberal sexual politics, only about 1 in 30 identify themselves as gay. Out of the less than 4% of the general population, who identify themselves gay, how many would identify with a cross gender superhero? That guess would certainly fall somewhere less than 1%.

 

With respects to DC reflecting their readership, they got that figured perfectly.

They are simply utilizing the time honored technique of exploitation to seduce white males that have a perversion for voyeurism into buying their pulp.

[krighton]

I'll just stop while I'm behind.