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x-men 101 9.8!

Started by clobberintime,

79 posts in this topic

clobberintime

clobberintime

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The folks who have to have it at any price kind of remind me of some of the people that were playing black jack around me when I was in Vegas last month. They would lose and lose and lose and just keep pulling out wads of cash or wander off to the atm. They couldn't stop themselves. I have never encountered a book or car that I could not live without if the price wasn't right. Patience always pays off and another one always seems to pop up. I have walked away from several car deals after negotiating to failure as well as comic deals. And not many of these comics are that rare - there is usually another coming down the pike and it seems that the first one is almost always the most stupidly expensive. BB may say that this guy just has to have it because of some sort of nostalgia spending splurge - if so, why does he bid look he does? Most people who buy these kind of things want to showboat a bit and if he really wanted just an extra nice copy, I would almost guarantee that he could not tell the difference between a sharp 9.4 or .6 and this copy. I f you read the ebay description, the seller bough t this off the racks! Now that is the way to make money. What percentage return on his money would that be? Anyway, I have long thought the multiples paid for 9.4 on up books makes no sense compared to the minute increase in quality seen between 9.4 to 9.8 books. When I have upgraded on these higher level books, I have been repeatedly disappointed by the higher graded book's appearance compared to the amount of money I had to spend for a .2 upgrade! These days it is all about the label baby.

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drbanner

drbanner

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...minute increase in quality seen between 9.4 to 9.8 books.

 

Buy the book, not the label! thumbsup2.gif

 

That said, if you lined up 50 9.4's and 50 9.8's, I bet most competent graders would be able to correctly identify 95% of them as a 9.4 or 9.8. Most 9.4's have visible color break somewhere, whether it's tiny spine stresses, teeny corner/edge creases, and/or rounded or worn corners. I've seen very few 9.8's with anything visibly wrong with them. As with any collectible, there are huge price differences in the upper grades for minute differences in condition. A few years ago in the CBM(?) there was an article discussing the growing price spreads in comics and the "...outrageous 100 to 1 spreads in coins..."! Surely that would never happen in comics, would it? confused-smiley-013.gif

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Mr. Zipper

Mr. Zipper

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...minute increase in quality seen between 9.4 to 9.8 books.

 

Buy the book, not the label! thumbsup2.gif

 

That said, if you lined up 50 9.4's and 50 9.8's, I bet most competent graders would be able to correctly identify 95% of them as a 9.4 or 9.8. Most 9.4's have visible color break somewhere, whether it's tiny spine stresses, teeny corner/edge creases, and/or rounded or worn corners. I've seen very few 9.8's with anything visibly wrong with them. As with any collectible, there are huge price differences in the upper grades for minute differences in condition.

 

No doubt there is a discernable diffrence in 9.8 and 9.4. But what about 9.6?

 

IMO, only a fool would pay $4,500 for ANY 9.8 without examining the book in person. Every 9.8 is one or two shakes away from 9.6 -- or even 9.4.

 

Any knowledgable collector should be aware by now how rampant slab damage is... and obviously the higher the grade, the more susceptible the book is to grade changing slab damage. So if one wanted a book that was REALLY a 9.8, an in-person inspection is necessary. (I'm not so sure even a high res scan would be clear enough to identify slab damage.)

 

Sadly, in cases like this, I suspect the number on the label is more important than the actual condition of the book inside.

 

sorry.gif

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sfilosa

sfilosa

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A few years ago in the CBM(?) there was an article discussing the growing price spreads in comics and the "...outrageous 100 to 1 spreads in coins..."! Surely that would never happen in comics, would it?

 

I remember that article because comics have an "intrisic" value also (that was the logic).

 

While I would agree that most collectors could see the difference between a 9.4 and a 9.8, what's the percentage that could distiguish between 9.6 and 9.8. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

And I have pointed out, up until CGC came along and "LABELED" a grade the spread would not have been anywhere near current levels.

 

Book #1 has zero noticable defects

Pre CGC it's called a NM/M and sells for $500

CGC 9.8 and sells for $2,000

 

Book #2 has the tiniest of stress line

Pre CGC it's called a NM+ and sells for $475

CGC 9.6 and sells for $750

 

That tiniest stress line had a $25 value pre-CGC and now has a $1,250 value.

 

Just doesn't make sense to me.

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drbanner

drbanner

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Just doesn't make sense to me.

 

And I'm sure you would have been called a maniacal lunatic in 1973 had you told everyone what the 2000 price spreads (pre-CGC) were going to be for Amazing Fantasy 15, which at the time was listed in the Official Overstreet Price Guide at $15, $20, and $25 in Good, Fine, and Mint, respectively!! 893whatthe.gif

 

Price spreads between "used" comic books and pristine, unread copies have been increasing since day one of this hobby, so it's really not surprising that as prices escalate and grading resolution increases, so does the spread. confused-smiley-013.gif

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tth2

tth2

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Price spreads between "used" comic books and pristine, unread copies have been increasing since day one of this hobby, so it's really not surprising that as prices escalate and grading resolution increases, so does the spread. confused-smiley-013.gif

 

Dr B, totally agree with you on this. And I definitely understand the desire to own best in census. However, I don't understand these kinds of spreads on BA or modern books, where you just KNOW that there are more books of similar grade out there. So you'll own best in census, but tied with 20 or more other books eventually. Why pay the "first owner premium" in that situation?

 

But the real question I have on this auction is whether the underbidder (feedback of 2) is a shill.

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HarrisonJohn

HarrisonJohn

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As a Jean Grey fan I would pay loads for that book too, if I had it.

 

What the heck does that statement mean? confused-smiley-013.gif

 

It means you shouldn't assume only insufficiently_thoughtful_person speculators are willing to pay $$$ for a NM/M copy of that book. And that I don't have the money right now doesn't discredit my opinion.

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sfilosa

sfilosa

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Just doesn't make sense to me.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

And I'm sure you would have been called a maniacal lunatic in 1973 had you told everyone what the 2000 price spreads (pre-CGC) were going to be for Amazing Fantasy 15, which at the time was listed in the Official Overstreet Price Guide at $15, $20, and $25 in Good, Fine, and Mint, respectively!!

 

Price spreads between "used" comic books and pristine, unread copies have been increasing since day one of this hobby, so it's really not surprising that as prices escalate and grading resolution increases, so does the spread.

 

Your logic (and facts) make sense.

 

BUT: you (or the buyers) are assuming GRADING IS AN EXACT SCIENCE. And that's where I disagree.

 

There is no question that a USED comic book and one that looks like NEW will have a huge spread in market value. BUT is a 9.6 a USED looking comic book?

 

And regarding grading resolutions, the original Overstreet Grading Guide had 100 points back in 1991. So resolution IS NOT increasing. Obviously, no one could follow the 100 point seems and reduced that to a little over 20 points. shocked.gif

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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And that I don't have the money right now doesn't discredit my opinion.

 

Of course it does. foreheadslap.gif

 

Anyone can spend Monopoly Money, but it changes significantly when you've got to open your wallet for almost $5K for a Bronze Age comic.

 

Open your wallet and you've got a point. Otherwise....

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PovertyRow

PovertyRow

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And that I don't have the money right now doesn't discredit my opinion.

 

Of course it does. foreheadslap.gif

 

Anyone can spend Monopoly Money, but it changes significantly when you've got to open your wallet for almost $5K for a Bronze Age comic.

 

Open your wallet and you've got a point. Otherwise....

 

Well if 5k isn't in the wallet it basically negates the "when you've got to open your wallet for almost $5K"

 

Or are you saying that only monied people have the right to an opinion?

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Bronty

Bronty

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I dunno, I think his comments are valid..

 

a) re grading resolution - that 100 pt scale never won general acceptance. OK so it was used in a few sotheby's auctions, etc., but outside of that, I never bought or sold a book as a "67" or a "91". Besides, I think the intention was to compare 1974 to 2004 more so than 1994 to 2004. The 100 pt scale aside, the long term trend has been for grading to increase in resolution.

 

b) re price spreads - isn't that taking his comment out of context a bit? All he's really saying is that sprice spreads have increased since day one, which is hard to argue with...

 

confused-smiley-013.gif

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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Well if 5k isn't in the wallet it basically negates the "when you've got to open your wallet for almost $5K"

 

Or are you saying that only monied people have the right to an opinion?

 

Yes, if your opinion is that $5K is more than a fair price, and something you'd easily buy. That's not an opinion, but a actionable statement.

 

Otherwise, it's a bunch of kids talking about what sports cars they'd buy if they found a million dollars. Pure fantasy without even a hint of reality. foreheadslap.gif

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Bronty

Bronty

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As for the results of this auction... $4500 with two bids left?? I really do want to puke. What happened to the concept of relative value? makepoint.gif By this scale the MH action 1 should be worth a billion dollars makepoint.gifmakepoint.gifmakepoint.gifmakepoint.gifmakepoint.giftonofbricks.gif

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