My Holy Grail is up!!! Hulk 181 CGC 9.8 oww

[comicinvestor-migration]

Let me tell you, that is one UGG-LEEEE CGC 9.8 Hulk 181. I've personally seen both 9.4 and 9.6 issues that take that one to town, no matter what the "Grading Gods" at CGC put on the label.

 

At some point in time, eye appeal and registration have to come into play, especially at the 9.6-9.8 level. Whoever wins this beauty, congrats on the highest numbered label, but that's about all you'll have.

 

In fact, I still remember a 9.0 White (yes, I'm still kicking myself) that went for a BIN of $800 that was perfectly printed and had a RED cover. Absolutely stunning book, but it had a few slight stresses on the front and (mostly) back cover that kept it down. Early sub too (probably a 9.2 resubmit), and I really should have bought that baby...

[BronzeBruce13]

Hey CI,

nice to see you back posting

 

Besides the miswrap what do you dislike about the book? I personally can tolerate it to a point, especially if it's not crooked and nothing important is cropped off at the right. The book seems structurally sound otherwise... if its not damaged as Matt suggests.

 

[comicinvestor-migration]

The mis-wrap is a bit too noticeable for this cat, especially for the insane price this comic will likely go for. As I'm sure you have seen as well, there are 9.6 copies that look much better than this one, and without the CGC slab, would easily get a higher price than this 9.8.

 

That's where I tune out of CGC comics, where the eye appeal doesn't even approach the grade, and its raw value is artificially inflated by a bizarro grade. Remember, even CGC screws up from time to time.

[BronzeBruce13]

I guess "Eye-Appeal" can be as subjective as structural grading itself.

It may be even harder to establish a system for factoring it into the grade in a manner that would be accepted by the majority of end-users.

So much to consider... registration, miscuts, color saturation, date stamps, writing, etc.

 

CGC does not seem to subtract much (if anything) for mis-wraps, misregistered books, etc. from "their grade". I'm not so sure they should either as it would seem near impossible to me to combine those elements along with physical structure grading. Maybe it's best if they stuck to determining (what seems to me) to be primarily a physical condition grade and leave the "Eye-Appeal" aspect of it to the individual collector to decide upon since even less will agree upon any implemented method. As collectors, do we see greater differences of opinion between the acceptance of date stamps, writing and misregistered comics... or differences agreeing with what the grading standard is?... and could we all endure having both?

 

I'd like to see this system in place... "Eye-Appeal" factors that are more obvious (via scan), like the wrap and registration would not be reported on. However, "Distribution Related Eye-Appeal" factors such as date stamps, arrival dates, writing, etc. that may not be visible from scans ideally should be brought to the attention of the buyer either by label notes or by an easy to access "serial number" look up at the site that reveals these "Eye-Appeal" considerations. That way we get a structural report/opinion of the book's condition by CGC and we can apply our own individual acceptances of the "Eye-Appeal" factors. That would make me happy... anyone else? Even if a method was decided upon to factor "Eye-Appeal" in... I have serious doubts most would agree with it. Would you, if you did not have a hand in determining the criteria and weight each factor should carry? I imagine it would please virtually no one. I'm curious how anyone in favor of that direction would envision such a system? I'm having trouble doing so.

 

On another note... I'm still trying to determine what percentage of books from various time periods came off the press, and through the bindery/trimming process registered perfectly. I think you may have to look at it differently depending on what the actual percentages may be. If it's a very high percentage, then maybe there's an argument that poorly wrapped/registered copies should be deducted from as it would be uncommon. If not, maybe the mis-wrap/misregister to varying degrees is to be expected on most of the books, thus not deducted from much (or at all) as that may be closer to the norm. Does that make any sense?

 

I've always felt that structure (in terms of physical condition due to damage and mishandling) comes before production related imperfections which fall more in the "Eye-Appeal" category to me. I'm less forgiving of "Distribution Related" additives though. I'm more forgiving of the production related imperfections because the comic was produced like that before anyone could influence it's physical condition. It does not offend me as much as seeing physical damage such as stresses or soft corners. I would chose a structurally superior book with a slight mis-wrap over a better "Eye-Appeal" book (registered well) that was structurally inferior in terms of damage. If it came through the production process that way, with some exceptions, I still look at it as a book that was kept beautifully and handled well.

 

In ideal situations we hope for everything, but the reality is, often you can't have everything.. at least not all at once. If I have to carry a book until I find the perfect one (if I ever do) I'd prefer to have one with less damage. Of course this is not an easy choice and there is a line to struggle with between structure and eye appeal for me too. The crooked mis-wraps bother my eye and sometimes I do choose a better "Eye-Appeal" book if it's close structurally.

 

 

[greggy]

Yes, it would be difficult to factor in an eye appeal factor that would be accepted by the consensus of the collectors. I think that eye appeal issues are mainly affected by the era of which the collector first started reading or collecting their books. To be honest, I was surprised about how picky and unforgiving some collectors are with respect the slightest of mis-registration. I see people comment comment on some very slightly off centered as being ugly! I could never understand it because these issues never materially affected my decision to buy or not buy a book.

 

When I bought most of my high grade Marvels in the early 1990s, I tried to first get books that have nice spines and sharp corners. Issues such as slight off-centering did no bother me that much. Luckily, the supply of these books were more plentiful back in the day so I could be more selective and pick the best of many copies. Now, with the advent of CGC, the better books are being gathered up by serious collectors and investors and the supply is dwindling.

 

Look at Marvel Spotlight 5 for example! To be honest, I guess I was lucky when I was looking for this book in the early 1990s and got a very well registered copy but I didn't even realized that some many copies were so poorly centered! If I was to look for a high grade CGC copy now, I don't know if I would buy them if the letters were cut off like so many copies.

 

With respect to penalizing mis-registered comics with a higher percentage of perfectly registered copies available, I think that it is more realistic with newer books, as these problems aren't usually a problem. How would CGC or any collector determine the average of the population? I guess it should be just left as it is now. Ultimately, the market will decide which is a better eye appeal book!

[comicinvestor-migration]

Bruce, the danger in putting so much cash into a flawed comic like this is that times change, grading criteria shifts and you could stand to lose a wad if registration is brought into the equation later.

 

Some people fool themselves into thinking CGC grading is the be-all-end-all of the hobby, but long-timers have seen OS grading criteria change with the times, and we all know that dealer NM's from the 60's and 70's are unlikely to match up now.

 

What if CGC publishes a revised set of standards, or a competitor enters and forces CGC to get tough on production flaws? It happened in sports card and coins, where competition made centering a requirement of higher grades.

 

Collectors had PSA 9 Gretzky rookies with 20/80 centering and paid hefty amounts for them, and overnight they lost thousands on their "now" 6.0-7.0 cards. Even if they kept it in the PSA case, buyers knew that it was a junk card, and stayed away. One day it was the cream, then the next, it was DOA.

 

Grading always changes, that's a law of collectibles, and I wouldn't want to put too much money into an item that could very well get knocked down in the coming years. Give me a perfectly registered, red-cover 9.4 or 9.6 over that book anyday.

[Action_Collector-migration]

The price of this book brings up another question. If the 9.9 surfaced what do you guys think it would go for?

[BronzeBruce13]

It wouldn't do as well on Ebay compared to Heritage or other auction houses probably.

That could go anywhere depending on how rich a particular Wolverine fan may be.

 

It could go $30-$35K without much problem... even more.

If I won the lottery, I'd pay more

[FlyingDonut]

It was shown at $25K at San Diego last year(?) - i think Greggy saw it.

[greggy]

I did see the book at the 2001 convention. I don't know if technically $25,000 was the price or not. They did have a price list for all their books but the books that were 9.9s (2 x Iron Man 1, Iron Man & Sub-mariner 1, Captain America 100, and Hulk 181) had prices that were blacked out. I could still see the $25,000 under the marker though for the Hulk. I really didn't ask because I couldn't afford it nor did I want the book!

[Action_Collector-migration]

Who had it? Ideal Collectibles?

[greggy]

Yep!

[dam60]

Okay does anyone else now think that this is a little crazy that it is over $16K and hasn't hit reserve? I thought for sure 15K would be the bid that broke reserve . . .

 

DAM

[Hensley300]

Yea, the books price is starting to get to the ridiculous point. It will be interesting to see if it does come up again on ebay, if it will hit this high a 2nd time.

[Moriarty]

I just think that any Bronze Age book that can command a figure of over $5k is insane no matter how HG it is.

 

Borg

[BronzeBruce13]

Absolutley... seems a little odd that the reserve is soooo high... looks like $19-20K.

I'm assuming some people are just thrill bidding as well because they are guessing or "know" that the reserve is insanely high. I'm wondering if the reserve was found out despite the fact it was to remain confidential... maybe I watched X-files too much, but my gut is trying to get my attention... and no, I'm not hungry.

 

 

[blowout]

The reserve is so crazily high, it begs the question 'Does the seller actually WANT to sell the book?'

[Bonds25]

Whoever buys it has more money than brains. I think I'd rather have 8 graded Gaines File Copies at 9.6 or 15 graded at 9.4.

 

$16K for a modern comic?? Insanity!!

[BronzeBruce13]

I just reached Tony from IC on his cell and asked him about Matt's concern about the top left edge of the back cover being possibly damaged due to the well.

 

He replied that the owner of the book is a regular vistor to these boards and is likely aware of this discussion. Tony says he needs to clear it with the owner before he can supply a close up of the top left edge... so we shall see.

[Mouse-migration]

He replied that the owner of the book is a regular vistor to these boards and is likely aware of this discussion. Tony says he needs to clear it with the owner before he can supply a close up of the top left edge... so we shall see.

Yeah.......and it's a little funny that this book showed up after the "Hulk #181, how high can it go?" thread was started.

 

Makes me wonder if someone isn't just testing the market for this book with no intention of selling short of some stupid outrageous bid amount.