My Holy Grail is up!!! Hulk 181 CGC 9.8 oww

[duncan36]

Well if a comics sent into CGC for regrading in its slab, I would imagine if its close they'll give it the benefit of the doubt unless there obviously has been further damage to it.

If a comic has been unmarred and it graded a 9.6 even if it could be a 9.4 I would venture to guess 9/10 times they'd give it a 9.6.

[BronzeBruce13]

I agree... $18K+ is unbelievable... especially for that copy without white pages.

I did not think it was as bad as others did, BUT at a stupefying premium like this you would expect perfection.

 

The real "Utter, utter, utter, utter stupidity" (or bad call) was my brilliant choice to abandon my serious consideration of buying the Greg Manning 9.8 oww copy (which this one looks like) over 2 years ago for around $4,500? with the BP if memory serves. I had a friend associated with them who looked at the book personally and advised me it was a questionable 9.8 in his eyes. I wanted to buy the best grade I could afford and I could (just barely), but I decided to use common sense, pass, and go after a 9.6 White.

 

So, genius that I am, I bought a 9.6 White and was ripped off. I was new to Ebay and didn't realize that the transaction was only covered for $175 and sent MO's.

Let's review: how much did that decision cost me? ($2550 lost on the 9.6W) + ($18K - $4500= 13,500) = $16,050... I'm a freakin' genius!! :

 

I agree wholeheartedly that you have to "buy the book" and not the grade 95% of the time... however, sometimes buying the grade... cashing in and then "buying the book" could be a better plan. I blew it this time as I expected the 9.8 to be worth much more... just not this soon.

 

So with $16 K profit (because I probably would have sold this 9.8 for this much if I owned it (since it was not perfection anyway) and went after a 9.6 W that looked nicer...I'm not crazy

 

Let's spend that money...

 

180-181-182 9.6 combo.......$7k

ASM 129 9.6W.......................$2k

IF 14 9.8................................. $1.7k

AA 11 9.6W............................$1k

MTU 1 9.6W...........................$1.5k

• buy wife some $1k trinket so she'll forever support any comic craziness I want to indulge

• buy 13 Lobster Tails and eat them all myself (no sharing)

• take forum members out drinking at the next major con near me

(I have a feeling that would take the rest)

 

Now, That sounds much better... Doooooooooooooh (yelled at Grand Canyon so it will echo back for 5 minutes for dramatic effect)

[g-man]

hahaha. good stuff Bruce. But u did ok i think.

[COI]

WTF happened with that Hulk 181 9.6?

 

It was a scam?

 

Take any action?

[BronzeBruce13]

It hurts G.. it hurts. I wanted to grab that damn 9.8 but listened to the "common sense" me rather than my "irrational, but often correct gut instinct" Big...HUGE mistake.

[Guest]

Anyone care to speculate on how much the 9.9 #181 could fetch? I'm thinking 30K without a doubt.

[g-man]

well we all have regrets about book we passed up in teh past. I know I missed out on a Spidey #5 and an XMEN #94 in my youth but oh well.....gotta move on. Even today there have been books I passed on but wish i had picked up. But the books will be offered again. I know u missed out on $12-14K but.......well it does suck but I know what u mean.

[COI]

Who knows. I thought this 9.8 would be a 13K book at the most. I guess it depends on whether or not the right buyer is up to bat.

[ArAich]

I don't drink....so could you share some of those lobster tails with me instead...

[BronzeBruce13]

yup... trailer park trash! scam... couldn't sleep well for 2 months. (That was the 3rd Hulk 181 I was ripped off on. My sisters boyfriend stole (2) raw beauties from my original collection almost 20 years ago too). Long story... forumites are probably tired of hearing it by now.

 

My wife works for a huge law firm and one of my friends runs a collection agency and has access to all sorts of info about people. Long story short, even with expert free legal assistance and the ability to find out everything about the guy... he only owned a crappy trailer and had no assets. I could have pursued it with the DA and maybe got him in some legal trouble, but a lawyer down in Louisiana that was doing a favor for my wife's legal firm talked to the DA and researched the guy further and found he had a history of domestic violence and get this... grave desecration??? That spooked my wife and she wanted me to drop it as she was afraid of what the guy might do if we put him in jail. [!@#%^&^] diseased [!@#%^&^] sucker!!!

 

After all that, I made it a point to learn all about internet scams and how to protect myself. You even have to know all the angles with using Paypal so you are not vulnerable. Shoulda' maybe done that first... or bought that 9.8

 

I'm getting more depressed now... I'm going to take long shower and have a beer... then maybe jump off my balcony... uuuhhhg. the wounds rippeth open yet again

 

[BronzeBruce13]

Only (1) and bring your own damn butter... we're not dipping in the same bowl

[greggy]

Is gman invited? If he is, I'm out!

[g-man]

why? maybe i can bring u another IM/Subby #1 person_too_unaware_of_social_graces...I had better arrive early...once u get there, food will be scarce.

[greggy]

[Bonds25]

This book will have to be worth about $36,000 in 7 years for it to beat out a regular stock index fund.

 

Plus, it doesn't even look like a 9.8 copy, and 7 years down the road there will probably be 4 or 5 more copies that grade out at 9.8 or 9.9. Sure hope the buyer has a lot of money and doesn't mind losing a LOT!

[BronzeBruce13]

At these numbers... crazy as it sounds... I don't think you can rule out that some of the bidders over the $15K mark may have little real expectation that the book is going to make them much, if any, money in the future. It could be a distant secondary consideration. The hope may be just not to lose much at worst while having the pleasure of owning it... that's assuming they ever intend to sell. If they don't.. the value becomes even less important.

 

Maybe they just have to have it for themselves and the money is available to spend on any number of indulgences.

 

Consider a guy that has the money to buy most any car he wants... he likes many less expensive options and would be otherwise content, BUT he always wanted a Corvette since the first day he saw one as a kid... so he indulges himself and pays the extra $20K because he has it. Maybe that's what's happening here? I know if I was very well off, I could see myself overpaying for books that I just wanted to have period... with no real concern if they were worth it or not in market terms. If they were worth it to me... that's what would matter.

 

If I ever win the lottery..watch out

[blowout]

If I ever win the lottery..watch out

 

Based on what you said in your last post Bruce, I certainly wouldn't want to get in a bidding war with you.

[BronzeBruce13]

Hey Gene,

 

I figured I'd wait until it ended...

$7650... rather nice, I'd say.

VB made $1k profit in less than a year. The set also brought in more than what the highest realized prices have been for each of the books individually thus far.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33816&item=2156370987&rd=1

 

I didn't comment on your last post because you've mentioned that theory/logic to me on 2 occasions prior via emails and I figured you offered it again for everyone else's benefit this time. I'm sure there is great merit to (Miller-Modigliani, conglomerate/holding company discount) theorems in many situations.... however, not everything makes sense (look at the 9.8) or goes the way we think.

 

The first time you brought this up was when I put up the first 9.4 Hulk 180-181-182 combo auction. I decided to go with my hunch and group the 3 anyway.. and my optimistically priced "Buy It Now" was nabbed before I woke up the next morning. As you may recall, I think I received over the equivalent of the highest amount fetched for a 9.4 Hulk 181 at that time (and mine was an oww, the high fetcher was a White)... and also made considerably more than past sales on the 180 & 182. The 180 was a cream pager too. I think the fact that the books were offered together made them more valuable (to at least 1 collector, which is all it takes) and the result and comments made to me by the winner supported that. We can't tell what the books would have done individually, but judging from the individual prices realized by those issues at that time, it would have been hundreds less. I did quite well and was very pleased as you may remember. The winner, now a great repeat customer and friend... indicated he would have paid more. He said seeing them all there at once was too tempting to pass up. Like many Hulk 181 owners/fans, he always wanted the trilogy at some point. The set was worth more than the pieces in that case. A premium was willingly paid to have them all at once, then, without searching further. You can't underestimate that appeal, the attention the auction generated (as a group) and the added passion factor created as a result.

 

Almost a year later, after he obtained 9.4 white pagers elsewhere, he put the exact same trilogy up he won from me, same exact books even... and made a $1k profit. Again, if memory serves... the set fetched better than individual avg. numbers realized for the books.

 

Vince's set did too... sometimes the "fan factor" has to be thrown in... these are collectibles with passion attached, not farm equipment. They are related and have appeal together. It may be situations like these 3, that provide the occasional rare exception to the logical, tested theorems you mention. I know its a one-sided argument as we will never know the individual results. We also can't assume the winner would have bid in combination the right way, and with the same intensity to win all 3 if they were posted separately. He may have been more concerned with the 181 and neglected the 180 and 182, thus not being a competitor in those auctions. He may have lost the 181 and in disgust, decided not to go strong for the others... or won the 181 lost the 180 and said screw it to the 182...who knows? Just as many arguments could be made that could support the individual postings having had less favorable results compared to better ones, as I see it.

 

I realize it does not make a whole lot of sense..but... who says it has to 100% of the time. If a Hulk 181 9.6 sells for $5000+ in the next 2 weeks, I'd be willing to concede the point that the individual listing may have done better this time. After that, too much time will have passed and we'll never really know. I think VB has to be pretty happy though.

 

[delekkerste]

$7650... rather nice, I'd say...The set also brought in more than what the highest realized prices have been for each of the books individually thus far.

 

All of what you have said is plausible, however, I STILL believe that VB could've gotten equal to or more by listing each individually. I understand what you're saying about the convenience of knocking all three books out with one blow, but a seller can replicate that effect by listing all 3 books simultaneously, no?

 

The last $1,351 of bidding was done by two bidders only...would these bidders have reduced the sum of their bids if all three auctions were listed simultaneously? Not likely, and, even if they did, might not there have been more bidders interested in the books separately that would more than compensate for any decrease?

 

Unfortunately, the answer is unknowable. However, I would argue that all of the books had a chance to reach heretofore unfathomable levels RIGHT NOW with the hoopla surrounding the #181 9.8 at close to $20K, rendering comparisons to previous realized prices irrelevant. Who knows - that #181 alone *might* have fetched well over $5K by itself had it been listed separately and ended tonight given the 9.8 mania...however, it will probably find itself back to its usual $3K-$4K level in a matter of days once the 9.8 auction ends and the furor subsides.

 

Just my take...but it's really just an academic debate, as VB realized a huge price and should be happy anyway.

 

Gene

[BronzeBruce13]

All of what you have said is plausible, however, I STILL believe that VB could've gotten equal to or more by listing each individually. I understand what you're saying about the convenience of knocking all three books out with one blow, but a seller can replicate that effect by listing all 3 books simultaneously, no?

 

It's more than convenience... its a "rare opportunity" to get them all in hand at the same time. Assume these are "desired" items and the "gather/acquire" instinct has been multiplied by the prospect of scoring a "multiple want" acquisition. Picking up windshield wiper fluid, as well as motor oil and a car freshener at the same time amounts to "convenience". The potential buyer has to also consider "what may happen later if he doesn't get them all when he had the chance... the could go up in price too". There's a sense of urgency added to the mix. ... and "no" I think listing them all at the same time, or virtually the same time, could create extra stress for the potential buyer as trying to stay on top of 3 books ending roughly the same time could be problematic. The other rationale provided earlier is still valid as well... depending on the order of the individually listed books, "if" and "how much" you win the 1st one may influence your bidding on the following ones. I think bidders may bid differently when the items are isolated, (maybe not as much) as you can't "rationalize" the numbers the way you want to, as you can in the group.

 

 

The last $1,351 of bidding was done by two bidders only...would these bidders have reduced the sum of their bids if all three auctions were listed simultaneously? Not likely, and, even if they did, might not there have been more bidders interested in the books separately that would more than compensate for any decrease?

 

quite possibly... BUT 3 times the "trilogy" was tried this way, and 3 times the group result surpassed the individual highs for each book at the time (not averages) combined... a premium, not a discount seems to have been the mindset.

 

 

I agree the debate is academic at this point... I STILL feel it was a great move and 3 times... 3 record successes says something to me.