Jim Lee selling his art collection?

[drdroom]

I don't think you're we're quite on the same page, maybe I am not expressing it clearly enough. I don't deny he's had impact but when you talk about top FIVE that is a lofty bar to reach.

 

Don't confuse the fact that I don't personally care for him with some sort of denial of impact. Not saying that. Saying he's not top five because very few people are. Only five.

 

To be fair the OP did say top five to ten. And I don't think too many people could argue against Jim lee being 'in the discussion' (to quote the OP) for the top ten most influential comic book artists of all time.

 

 

 

 

Except maybe Bronty.

 

Bronty and me. If its top ten SUPERHERO artists, okay, he can be in the discussion.

[Bronty]

I don't think you're we're quite on the same page, maybe I am not expressing it clearly enough. I don't deny he's had impact but when you talk about top FIVE that is a lofty bar to reach.

 

Don't confuse the fact that I don't personally care for him with some sort of denial of impact. Not saying that. Saying he's not top five because very few people are. Only five.

 

To be fair the OP did say top five to ten. And I don't think too many people could argue against Jim lee being 'in the discussion' (to quote the OP) for the top ten most influential comic book artists of all time.

 

 

 

 

Except maybe Bronty.

 

I'd have him a lot lower than 10! .... But I'm trying to be sensitive to what I assume is bias on my side because lots of others like him

[drdroom]

Now Bronty, bear in mind, Jim could well be reading this thread, which was supposed to be about what else he has in his collection that might be going on the block. I mean if the Lord of Light pieces were the EASY ones to part with... Jim? Are you there? Got any 4th World splashes? If you tell us what else you got I won't make a detailed comparison of Lee vs. Barks overall importance, how about that?

[alxjhnsn]

I strongly encourage you to read some of the material between say 1948 and 1958. There isn't a better body of comics work around. It stands the test of time tremendously well and can still make you laugh 60 years after the fact. The earlier and later works can be excellent too but not quite as the same level and not as consistently, particulary the post 58 material.

 

To be more specific, if there are folks who aren't familiar with Carl Bark's work, may I recommend the wonderful series of Bark's reprints being created now by Fantagraphics? The books are being printed out of (chronological) order with the best material first. Thus, Uncle Scrooge (#12) was printed first.

 

The Complete Carl Bark's Library

07 Walt Disney's Donald Duck "Lost in the Andes"

11 Walt Disney's Donald Duck: "A Christmas For Shacktown"

12 Walt Disney's Uncle Scrooge "Only a Poor Old Man"

 

Seriously good funny books. Highly recommended.

 

[drdroom]

Alex,

I've got most of this material in Gold Key reprints from the '70s. Do you have an opinion on the recoloring/ print quality of the new editions versus comics reprints?

[AKA Rick]

Thx for clarifying. I guess collectively is the key word there as I was thinking individually. Given my bias I am a little surprised that they could get that much even collectively, but I suppose there were a number of covers there and they were double and triple size or something ( you would know better than me)

 

Love him or hate him, he is in the discussion of the top 5 to 10 most influential comic artists of all time.

 

X-Men #1 is the highest selling comic of all time (8.1 mil copies), if the tri-fold went up for auction it would be with the elite / A+ sales of all time.

 

 

top 5 to 10? I don't buy that personally even though I understand people liking his work even if I don't. Top 5 or 10 of the last 30 years, sure. But top 5 or 10 going back to the 1930s?

 

As in...

 

Jack Kirby

Carl Barks

Frank Frazetta

Steve Ditko

and

Jim Lee???

 

not for my although I'd be curious to hear other reactions on that.

 

I have to agree with that if 100,000 fans were polled across every generation equally weighed across every era/age starting with the Golden Age of the 1940's then continuing to, Silver, Bronze, Copper, Modern/Present, I'd doubt Jim Lee would be in the "Top 5" in terms of popularity ranking - - possibly in the "Top 10" with biases of the fact that he's been popular the past 30 years in the 90's, Y2K and 2010's...

 

...but in another breath, keeping in mind his body of work, as beautiful as the artwork is (and not even factoring in his impact with both co-founding Image and subsequently selling Wildstorm and eventually becoming a respected executive at DC comics) I do think his art style has been both "influential" and "inspirational" to a lot of fans who became artists and artist like David Finch, Mike Deodato Jr, Ed Benes, and others who emulated his style or say "he's the reason why I went into comics" (which I do hear at conventions from artists who name their favorites as fans growing up).

 

So, I can give him credit for his popularity, impact and influence to those degrees.

 

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of Jim Lee's artwork where I'd put him in an iconic realm, since to me his only notable run I enjoyed combining his art with good storytelling was his Batman "Hush" otherwise I sort of felt he drew really pretty pictures, but the comics themselves were unremarkable, as the characters he created (aside from Gen 13 which had good development potential).

 

That's where, and it's subjective to the nostalgia and we show our age in our biases, but I'd say Kirby and Ditko are in the Top 5... and from there, I think it's fairly debatable based on who you're asking. If you're asking Me, I'd include:

 

Frank Miller

John Byrne

Neal Adams

 

On the fringe, I'd consider (again thinking they're more innovators or artists who inspired other peer artists to emulate their style, almost creating a sub-genre):

 

George Perez

Jim Steranko

Barry Smith

Gil Kane

Carmine Infantino

Berni Wrightson

J Scott Campbell

Jim Lee

Arthur Adams

Adam Hughes

Bruce Timm

 

...and because I'm not sure if I can't differentiate a Carl Barks "Donald Duck" from one rendered by Don Rosa or others, it's hard for me to show appreciation for his art to put him in my top list, and the same for Frank Frazetta, more because I don't identify him as a comic artist and see him more as a fantasy artist, from the context of my opinions more so than any facts of the matter.

[Bronty]

Its true that frank's output in comics was tiny so if someone wants to discount him for that reason I can totally understand that. In fact its probably appropriate. I was actually more just reacting to what I thought was an overstatement than really considering my top five list, so I'm not trying to say those were the five most influential guys or the five guys with the greatest contributions. At the end of the day one can twist the all time top five list any way you want - influence - well define that. On the audience, on the medium, on other professionals, what. You can interpret that a lot of way. Is selling a lot of copies influence? Is managerial power influence? If you want to talk about greatest contributions, well what factors are those? What weight do you give to each?

 

At the end of the day I just didn't - my humble opinion - rank Lee up there with the all time greats.

 

I like some of the guys on your list, i.e. my list would include Adams and Miller as well.

[J.Sid]

Jim Lee is pretty big when you put it that way. I like your idea of polling fans equally from different decades.

[Eric Seffinga]

It's not even the topic of the thread, so not sure why I'm even bothering, but...

 

How anyone could have a most influential list without Eisner on it is beyond me.

 

[CollectingFool]

With respect to "5 most influential comic artists" I don't think Lee comes anywhere near, and I'm sure he'd be the first to agree. How about Schulz? Herge? Tezuka? Mobius, Foster, Herriman, Crane, Wally Wood? --Just to drop in some names I haven't seen yet.

 

If it's not "hot now" and currently breaking records at auction most people don't think about them. The fact that most artists people think of as the most influential were influenced by Herriman, Foster, Raymond and Schulz doesn't come into play. Plus, it has to be the 60's comic book field or later for most on this forum to take them seriously. Remember, nostalgia rules. This question is more about history of the industry but you're going to get answers based on nostalgia and personal preference. It's just human nature.

 

 

 

[alxjhnsn]

Alex,

I've got most of this material in Gold Key reprints from the '70s. Do you have an opinion on the recoloring/ print quality of the new editions versus comics reprints?

 

I can't answer because I've never looked at those reprints. However, I do like the coloring a lot.

 

Here's a page from my scanner. I think it's pretty accurate.

 

 

 

 

[delekkerste]

Jim Lee is probably the most influential comic book artist of his era. I wouldn't put him in the top 5 (my tentative top 5: Kirby, Eisner, Adams, Miller and Wood), but I could easily see top 10 or 15 of all-time.

 

 

Also-- can't imagine that man actually needs money. His covers sell for 12-20 thousand dollars, easily. Go figure.

 

I'm sure he makes a great living for himself, but, having gone through a costly divorce and having to put a bunch of kids through college soon, I can see why someone would use their OA collection as an easy source of funds. I mean, he's been able to enjoy the art for 15-20 years, it's appreciated a lot in value, he's a busy guy and the art is just sitting there - why not put it to good use? It's all got to go sometime anyway, no matter how wealthy you are.

 

Also, I know Jim has parted with a number of pieces in recent years (sorry, cannot even hint at details), so I guess I am not as surprised as some to see this development.

 

 

Also IIRC, the pieces weren't commissioned by CIA, they were made for a real Lord of Light proposal that never got off the ground, and then borrowed for the rescue operation, so the connection is not really that compelling.

 

Yeah, I have to agree - it's more marketing spin than anything else. Do we know if these (large) pieces were actually carried to Tehran by Mendez? Or did they just sit in the faux Hollywood office as part of the backstory? If the former, they would carry more weight with me; if the latter, they are a footnote at best to the overall story. Still very cool, but if these pieces rival The King's Marvel art prices based on the Argo connection...I'd rather have the superhero art personally.

[Bronty]

With respect to "5 most influential comic artists" I don't think Lee comes anywhere near, and I'm sure he'd be the first to agree. How about Schulz? Herge? Tezuka? Mobius, Foster, Herriman, Crane, Wally Wood? --Just to drop in some names I haven't seen yet.

 

If it's not "hot now" and currently breaking records at auction most people don't think about them. The fact that most artists people think of as the most influential were influenced by Herriman, Foster, Raymond and Schulz doesn't come into play. Plus, it has to be the 60's comic book field or later for most on this forum to take them seriously. Remember, nostalgia rules. This question is more about history of the industry but you're going to get answers based on nostalgia and personal preference. It's just human nature.

 

 

 

I have a lot of respect for the guys you mention esp Schulz but I see them as strip artists. I'm sure I'm not the only one that's not considering them on the thought they are outside the discussion

[Kwan Chang]

Gene Park said...............

 

Also, I know Jim has parted with a number of pieces in recent years (sorry, cannot even hint at details), so I guess I am not as surprised as some to see this development.

~~~~~SHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[delekkerste]

Gene Park said...............

 

Also, I know Jim has parted with a number of pieces in recent years (sorry, cannot even hint at details), so I guess I am not as surprised as some to see this development.

~~~~~SHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

, my lips are sealed, Kwan! Especially since I wouldn't mind seeing some of these departed pieces eventually end up in my collection.

[stinkininkin]

Gene Park said...............

 

Also, I know Jim has parted with a number of pieces in recent years (sorry, cannot even hint at details), so I guess I am not as surprised as some to see this development.

~~~~~SHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

, my lips are sealed, Kwan! Especially since I wouldn't mind seeing some of these departed pieces eventually end up in my collection.

 

Get in line Gene. The back of the line!

 

Scott

[delekkerste]

Get in line Gene. The back of the line!

 

Scott

 

[revat]

As for why Mr. Lee wouldn't mind a bit more $$ w/4 kids assuming he lives in NYC or thereabouts?

 

** I know nothing about Mr. Lee's personal life, so these estimates are all conjecture.

 

You assume 4 kids, but probably not all in college at the same time. 2 are probably in college (maybe grad school), and 2 in high school. You assume the high schools are probably private, as Mr. Lee is fairly wealthy and lives in greater NYC area.

 

2 kids in college = $45,000 per year for everything per kid, this may be somewhat conservative if they're BOTH in private schools and living away from home. = $90,000 total.

2 kids in high school in private school, conservatively $25000 a year per kid = $50,000 per year total

Fairly wealthy guy lots, of kids, probably a reasonable mortgage of $7,000 per month (conservative) = $84,000 per year

2 car family, 1 car is probably paid off, so $6K per year in car payments.

The total is already around $230K and we haven't got to spending money for 6 people, food, pets, sports and tutoring and music lessons for kids, clothes, subway, travel (likely to have family in Korea IMO), savings (seems like at least 10% for Mr. Lee, and probably puts some in for each kid too), charity (seems like a generous guy), retirement contributions, investments, gifts, entertainment, other bills like cable, water, utility, trash, phone, car and property insurance, other supplemental insurance, medical (mostly insured I assume), taking care of parents (and in laws). And doing all this stuff in and around NYC, where sales taxes are fairly high.

 

I know millions of people pay all these bills everyday, and it doesn't cost THAT Much. But when you have more money, stuff just costs more, even reasonable stuff. You get the full cable package with sports channels and movie channels, each of your kids has the best newest phone, you upgrade your sports tickets, your plane tickets, even if clothes aren't outrageously expensive, your kids get them more often and they cost a bit higher quality but it adds up QUICK. THe jewelery you buy your wife (even she's very modest) will cost MORE. You shop for 6 people at Whole Foods instead of Safeway, you get extra premium insurance plans and medical coverage, etc. But if I can sell 3 pieces of art that I don't look at anymore to pay for tuition for one my kids, and I save a little bit on the art insurance I was paying (perhaps) and it makes more room for me to make/store/buy new art I might currently appreciate more, and someone else who really wants it can enjoy the art, then it seems like a good deal all around.

[drdroom]

With respect to "5 most influential comic artists" I don't think Lee comes anywhere near, and I'm sure he'd be the first to agree. How about Schulz? Herge? Tezuka? Mobius, Foster, Herriman, Crane, Wally Wood? --Just to drop in some names I haven't seen yet.

 

If it's not "hot now" and currently breaking records at auction most people don't think about them. The fact that most artists people think of as the most influential were influenced by Herriman, Foster, Raymond and Schulz doesn't come into play. Plus, it has to be the 60's comic book field or later for most on this forum to take them seriously. Remember, nostalgia rules. This question is more about history of the industry but you're going to get answers based on nostalgia and personal preference. It's just human nature.

 

 

 

I have a lot of respect for the guys you mention esp Schulz but I see them as strip artists. I'm sure I'm not the only one that's not considering them on the thought they are outside the discussion

 

In the development of the form it doesn't make much difference, but even if we make the arbitrary distinction, that still leaves Herge, Tezuka & Moebius to consider, for a start. That's why I think we really must limit it exclusively to the superhero genre in order for guys like Lee & McFarlane to enter the discussion.

[alxjhnsn]

Yeah, I have to agree - it's more marketing spin than anything else. Do we know if these (large) pieces were actually carried to Tehran by Mendez? Or did they just sit in the faux Hollywood office as part of the backstory? If the former, they would carry more weight with me; if the latter, they are a footnote at best to the overall story. Still very cool, but if these pieces rival The King's Marvel art prices based on the Argo connection...I'd rather have the superhero art personally.

 

Barry Ira Geller, who wrote the screenplay for the proposed Lord of Light movie, has a very detailed site on this work and the CIA use of it .

 

Among other things, he offers:

• Novel Synopsis
  
• Story of the Lord of Light film
  
• The real story of the CIA's use of the material
  
• Business Information
  
• Scans of all the Art (and the possibility of buying prints)

 

It's not a well designed site so be sure to scroll down to see everything especially on the home page.

 

 

BTW, if you haven't read the book, you are missing a treat.